Weapon Resting & Deployment Feedback

[OMAC 254]

I wish that weapons could be a little more easily deployed on boulders. Sometimes it works very quickly, then, after I move away from boulder and come back to it, I can't get the deployment to happen even from the same direction (position relative to rock) and stance. Perhaps I've got to get more used to just resting, but I still think that there should be some indicator as whether the weapon is rested or not.

[roberthammer 582]

This is how the bipod can still reduce the recoil to almost none

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

This is how the bipod can still reduce the recoil to almost none

Yes, but for something that close range, should it really have more dispersion? I'm currently using bipods, and at medium range, it's not "perfect zero" recoil. In fact, it's a tight grouping, but there is definitely, recoil, and unless one has skill, they're not going to hit anything medium/long range even with that small of recoil. At medium range the grouping is about the size of human. At long distance, the grouping is about the size of maybe a car, or an APC like the Marid. (size reference)

So, at close range, with bipods, it's fine. At Medium range, it's probably best to go Burst. At Long range, it's best to do quick bursts in order to sustain effective suppression fire, semi, or quick semi if your firing for effective hits. I'll see if i can do some more tests and various distances.

[roberthammer 582]

Yes, but for something that close range, should it really have more dispersion? I'm currently using bipods, and at medium range, it's not "perfect zero" recoil. In fact, it's a tight grouping, but there is definitely, recoil, and unless one has skill, they're not going to hit anything medium/long range even with that small of recoil. At medium range the grouping is about the size of human. At long distance, the grouping is about the size of maybe a car, or an APC like the Marid. (size reference)

So, at close range, with bipods, it's fine. At Medium range, it's probably best to go Burst. At Long range, it's best to do quick bursts in order to sustain effective suppression fire, semi, or quick semi if your firing for effective hits. I'll see if i can do some more tests and various distances.

Dispersion is fine but main point is that there's almost none recoil of the weapon when deployed

best example is in RO2 >

see how the weapon recoils , that's how it should be

Edited March 20, 2015 by RobertHammer

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Dispersion is fine but main point is that there's almost none recoil of the weapon when deployed even like BF3 had more recoil in those bipods (ye i know weird )

I thought about that too, actually. Lol. But what i'm wondering is, what if they lessen the dispersion, and compensate with recoil? Granted, the animations in Arma aren't directly representative to real life. If i were firing full auto in real life, standing, i would get used to compensating. If i were prone, firing full auto, i would be compensating the same, but with bipods, i wouldn't have to stabilize, thus being able to focus on keeping my recoil down. This means i can hold me gun from rising, fairly easily with bipods, given i have more energy focused on keeping the gun from aiming off target. Theoretically.

[Brisse 78]

I thought about that too, actually. Lol. But what i'm wondering is, what if they lessen the dispersion, and compensate with recoil?

The dispertion value, should in my opinion be treated as the weapon's own inherent accuracy. It should have nothing to do with the shooter. Imagine putting a weapon in a fixed stand and shooting a group. There will be some dispersion because of barrel harmonics and such things, and that's what the dispersion value is for.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Just for visualization, here are testers firing the HK-121, NAVID in game. Bipod is being used, and watch how he handles the recoil.

Yes, the first thing you notice is it's ROF is probably at max. Second it's chambered in 7.62 and not 9.3. Thoughts?

(Also realized it might actually have a burst fire mode at around 3:06 in the video, standing, the recoil appears the same as in game, accept the recoil in game while standing on burst is much more violent and punishing)

At 3:20 seconds, you can actually see him firing around the same ROF as in game, and it shows a target and it's dispersion. That grouping... Is actually better IRL than in game. Which is actually quite frightening...

Edited March 20, 2015 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[roberthammer 582]

Just for visualization, here are testers firing the HK-121, NAVID in game. Bipod is being used, and watch how he handles the recoil.

Yes, the first thing you notice is it's ROF is probably at max. Second it's chambered in 7.62 and not 9.3. Thoughts?

Being a 9.3x64mm brenneke , the recoil should been much higher than that in the video with 7.62

Same thing is with the LWMMG .338 NM - it still kicks even when deployed

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:19 ----------

At 3:20 seconds, you can actually see him firing around the same ROF as in game, and it shows a target and it's dispersion. That grouping... Is actually better IRL than in game. Which is actually quite frightening...

You can do the same with M60 Rambo style so yeah

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Being a 9.3x64mm brenneke , the recoil should been much higher than that in the video with 7.62

Same thing is with the LWMMG .338 NM - it still kicks even when deployed

True. Though, in game, having watched how 7.62 perform in that video, at the highest ROF, which, i swear seems to be as fast as 850-900, which is insane... the Navid performs worse. At close range, the grouping isn't as accurate as the 7.62, as in the video, his grouping was freakishly smaller than a golf ball, seeing as he was probably medium distance. So, the 9.3 grouping is significantly larger, around the size of... a persons head, close range. Medium range, the grouping in game is quad-bike sized, and just now shooting at long range, 800 meters or so, your not hitting anything, more scaring the peopel your shooting at, or suppressing for that matter. Prone though, i think the recoil should be minimal to none, given you can quite literally hold the gun very snug with the help of bipods and your shoulder, plus recoil compensation, should be very small.

However, i do agree for an MMG chambered in 9.3/.338 Norma, it should be a little more recoil. As those rounds do pack a mean kick, even when your stable. Also, one shouldn't really be firing full auto on an MMG to begin with unless it's a serious suppression tactic. Bursts are probably the best bet, your shoulder would be... ouch.

[bonham 10]

I think that the undeploy-animation should be sped up. You're essentially just walking away from a position, there is no need for a handicap. Furthermore, any movement input during the animation prevents it from finishing and you become stuck for that time.

[razor6014 35]

Being a 9.3x64mm brenneke , the recoil should been much higher than that in the video with 7.62

Same thing is with the LWMMG .338 NM - it still kicks even when deployed

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:19 ----------

You can do the same with M60 Rambo style so yeah

If it where the same gun yes there would be more recoil ... However you have a much more massive gun not just mass but the mass is spread out therefore it has more inertia .. hence it moves less

I= I₀ + m*r²

F= m*a

if you translate that to the object you get with the introduction of radius from the center mass

M (r x F) = I * alpha( a x r)

alpa is your sway basicly rotary acceleration of the barrel from the wanted axis ( in this case the wanted trajectory )

if you read it like this: alpha = M/I

basicly the more inert the object is the more it kills the forces of recoil

Edited March 20, 2015 by Razor6014

[roshnak 41]

Furthermore, any movement input during the animation prevents it from finishing and you become stuck for that time.

This is real annoying. Ideally you should be able to undeploy no matter what direct you're looking, it shouldn't try to recenter the view first.

[Tsark 12]

Hello, i can' t find any info on this, Has BI mentionned whether the fact that we can' t hold breath with the weapon deployed because it hasn' t been deployed yet (see what i did there?) or is this some kind of bullshit "balancing" feature?

And same question regarding the fact that we can' t move until the bipod has been folded, is it by design or something not yet implemented?

The dispertion value, should in my opinion be treated as the weapon's own inherent accuracy. It should have nothing to do with the shooter. Imagine putting a weapon in a fixed stand and shooting a group. There will be some dispersion because of barrel harmonics and such things, and that's what the dispersion value is for.

I absolutely agree.

[-Coulum- 35]

I know that its stil wip, but the bipods are looking good so far. My tweaks would be:

• Standing or crouched while rested should have more sway and recoil. Sitting and prone are pretty reasonable
  
• Weapons without bipods should be alot less stable while rested.
  
• Inertia should not be decreased while rested. Shooting from a rest makes it possible to steady your aim. It doesn't increase the speed at which you are able to aim. Should still have to use controlled steady weapon handling even when rested.

Anyhow just my thoughts on the resting so far. I haven't kept up with this thread so I am sure alot of it has been discussed already.

The dispertion value, should in my opinion be treated as the weapon's own inherent accuracy. It should have nothing to do with the shooter. Imagine putting a weapon in a fixed stand and shooting a group. There will be some dispersion because of barrel harmonics and such things, and that's what the dispersion value is for.

Yep. Dispersion is for stuff that in reality is out of the shooter's control imo.

At 3:20 seconds, you can actually see him firing around the same ROF as in game, and it shows a target and it's dispersion. That grouping... Is actually better IRL than in game. Which is actually quite frightening...

That is very impressive/scary. I do think that 9mm+ would produce considerably more kick though, and that being in any stance other prone would be much harder, even with bipod deployed. But never personally fired an MG. Also it can be hard to see just how tight his groups are from such a camera angle.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

If it where the same gun yes there would be more recoil ... However you have a much more massive gun not just mass but the mass is spread out therefore it has more inertia .. hence it moves less

I= I₀ + m*r²

F= m*a

if you translate that to the object you get with the introduction of radius from the center mass

M (r x F) = I * alpha( a x r)

alpa is your sway basicly rotary acceleration of the barrel from the wanted axis ( in this case the wanted trajectory )

if you read it like this: alpha = M/I

basicly the more inert the object is the more it kills the forces of recoil

That is a really good point you mentioned there. So to be honest, the HK-121 is not as good in game as it is in real life (god help us, everyone would die), it's worse, but at the same time, it's balanced still. It's not over powered, even for it's round. The amount of dispersion at Medium and Long ranges, are very spaced out, while maintaining a grouping. So essentially, still, if you are close tot he shooter, your fucked. Medium range, you may want to seek cover ASAP, long ranges, you want to do the same, but you have a better chance at firing back. This is ONLY with bipods though. Without bipods, the shooter is going to have a far, significantly harder time hitting things while using bursts or full auto.

[JamesSaga 1]

In the current version, weapon deployment breaks after I load a save. Any one else?

[twisted 128]

how to get list of bipods compatible with a weapon? in other words the bipod counterpart of

_scopez = getArray (configFile >> "CfgWeapons" >> _weapon >> "WeaponSlotsInfo" >> "CowsSlot" >> "compatibleItems"); 

[Jackal326 1182]

how to get list of bipods compatible with a weapon? in other words the bipod counterpart of

_scopez = getArray (configFile >> "CfgWeapons" >> _weapon >> "WeaponSlotsInfo" >> "CowsSlot" >> "compatibleItems"); 

Use 'UnderBarrelSlot' instead of 'CowsSlot'.

[twisted 128]

Use 'UnderBarrelSlot' instead of 'CowsSlot'.

thanks a lot man.

[ImperialAlex 72]

Furthermore, any movement input during the animation prevents it from finishing and you become stuck for that time.

Undeploying, not least because of this bug, is my least favourite part of the the current system. I can't count how many times that has already gotten me killed during testing.

I would prefer instant undeployment, with the gameplay balance coming from e.g. a large sway penalty instead.

[enex 11]

Undeploying, not least because of this bug, is my least favourite part of the the current system. I can't count how many times that has already gotten me killed during testing.

I would prefer instant undeployment, with the gameplay balance coming from e.g. a large sway penalty instead.

Agreed.Bipods aren't glued in place in real life.In perfect case pressing any movement keys would

move you and animation of bipods would follow movement, not the other way.

[five_seven5-7 56]

Agreed.Bipods aren't glued in place in real life.In perfect case pressing any movement keys would

move you and animation of bipods would follow movement, not the other way.

+1. It only be considered active resting when the deployed bipods touch any surface. Also why reloading breaks the deployment? (lack of animations?) Also its needed to increase the weapons inertia only in prone position

[enex 11]

Also why reloading breaks the deployment? (lack of animations?) Also its needed to increase the weapons inertia only in prone position

It works on H barriers, so I'm guessing is bug/placeholder, awaiting configuration.

[twisted 128]

one thing i find a little strange is that when prone bipods should usually lift your weapon higher than you could otherwise unsupported. But in the current implementation they actually always seem to actaully drop your point of view back into the grass.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

In the current version, weapon deployment breaks after I load a save. Any one else?

Confirmed. Loading an existing mission and trying to use bipods does not work.