Switching seats in a vehicle

[oukej 2911]

In order to fix http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=11899 we wanted to make some changes to how switching seats is currently handled and how it is restricted in MP.

Because this is a change to a behavior which has been around for some while we'd like to ask you first for your opinion and also ideas about possible risks of such change. E.g. we are aware of several game modes which are using vehicle buying mechanics which could be affected in some way. Our initial intention was to allow for switching to any seat for any player as long as that seat is free or occupied by the AI. But... let me ask you a question first.

What behavior would you expect?

To be able to switch only to empty seats? Or also to those occupied by an AI? What if this AI i subordinate of someone else and he or she doesn't want you to steal his/her subordinate's position? Or should players always take priority? Would that break or be risky to any of the currently used mechanics?

Would you expect yourself to be able to switch to any seat you can get in from the outside? Or not being able to switch seats at all unless you're also the effective commander of the vehicle?

Thank you for your feedback!

[roberthammer 582]

I would say to only switch to empty seats and only a commander/leader of the group could push the AI away

otherwise anyone could take AI's place in the vehicle , then surely someone will abuse that and take control of vehicle which in some mission couldn't get and will break the mission

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Would you expect yourself to be able to switch to any seat you can get in from the outside? Or not being able to switch seats at all unless you're also the effective commander of the vehicle?

In my opinion, only switchable seats should be the ones in the same "compartment" as your current seat. For example, people in the cabin of the HEMTT shouldn't be able to switch to the flatbed area of the truck, and vice versa.

To be able to switch only to empty seats? Or also to those occupied by an AI? What if this AI i subordinate of someone else and he or she doesn't want you to steal his/her subordinate's position? Or should players always take priority? Would that break or be risky to any of the currently used mechanics?

Whatever you decide in the end to be the defaults for this, i think that this should be made customizable by the mission makers/scripts, like a possibility to lock a seat to switching.

In certain cases, you don't want players switching seats, going between turrets, etc.

For example, as it is currently, sometimes you want to lock the gunner positions on the Ghosthawk, but putting AI in there allows the players in cargo to switch to the gun, even if the AI isn't the part of the players group. On the other hand, sometimes, this is actually desireable behavior.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Sniperwolf572

[killzone_kid 1331]

In order to fix http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=11899 we wanted to make some changes to how switching seats is currently handled and how it is restricted in MP.

Because this is a change to a behavior which has been around for some while we'd like to ask you first for your opinion and also ideas about possible risks of such change. E.g. we are aware of several game modes which are using vehicle buying mechanics which could be affected in some way. Our initial intention was to allow for switching to any seat for any player as long as that seat is free or occupied by the AI. But... let me ask you a question first.

What behavior would you expect?

To be able to switch only to empty seats? Or also to those occupied by an AI? What if this AI i subordinate of someone else and he or she doesn't want you to steal his/her subordinate's position? Or should players always take priority? Would that break or be risky to any of the currently used mechanics?

Would you expect yourself to be able to switch to any seat you can get in from the outside? Or not being able to switch seats at all unless you're also the effective commander of the vehicle?

Thank you for your feedback!

My only concerns:

* There is still no Event Handler to know when unit switched seats.

* If switching to any seat is allowed, there has to be possibility to block individual seats from switching to.

* There is still a big issue with handling dead units in vehicle as they visually occupying seats but detecting it is a big mess at the moment.

[msy 22]

I want to see a seats GUI in the game and when activated you can choose seat by some hotkey.

[x3kj 1247]

In my opinion, only switchable seats should be the ones in the same "compartment" as your current seat. For example, people in the cabin of the HEMTT shouldn't be able to switch to the flatbed area of the truck, and vice versa.

This is already the case. different compartments can't change seats between each other.

I would say to only switch to empty seats and only a commander/leader of the group could push the AI away

I second this.

[samatra 85]

Whatever will be decided I would like to see ability to control it with script or at very least with config. Also doubling Killzone_Kid about seat change event handlers, it is very needed.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

This is already the case. different compartments can't change seats between each other.

Oukej asked this:

Would you expect yourself to be able to switch to any seat you can get in from the outside?

And that was my reply to this specific point which suggests that the compartments could be "compartment-agnostic" in the future.

[DancZer 65]

To be able to switch only to empty seats? Or also to those occupied by an AI? Or not being able to switch seats at all unless you're also the effective commander of the vehicle?

Why not all? It can be same property as the vehicle lock. Mission editors can choose it in the editor/or via script commands.

I like the idea that players should always take priority. It would solve lot of: 2what the fu*k is the AI doing" things.

[Tonci87 163]

I have a proposla for you:

Don´t have all the possible positions in the action menu. Just have "Switch seats" in there. this would already seriously declutter the action menu on some vehicles.

If the player selects "switch seats" a menu opens (like the command menu) where he can choose the desired position via number key.

He should only be able to switch seats if

The seat is empty.

His own AI subordinate is on it

If he can access the seat from his current position (for example an Offroad passenger shouldn´t be able to get into the back without exiting the vehicle).

[x3kj 1247]

Yes decluttering is much needed, especially since FFV positions are seperate to normal cargo positions because they are turrets.

I also would prefer if the compartment system stays (you cant switch around to every position from everywhere)

However, i would like to see a system where you can define how individual compartments behave/ have them be linked to each other.

For example comp1, comp2, comp3 and then make it so comp1 could be linked to comp2 but also with comp3. While passengers in comp1 could access every seat, passengers in comp3 could only access seats in comp1 and comp3. That way comp1 is a "hub" from where you can access all different positions. This would help to reduce large numbers of seats in vehicles with many stations/weaponpositions.

You shouldnt be able to change to a position that can only be accessed from the outside of a vehicle from inside another space of the vehicle (e.g. gunner on Mi-48).

It would also be nice to have a short amount of time it takes to switch (definable per vehicle in the config).

Oukej asked this:

i missed that part

Edited February 5, 2015 by Fennek

[St. Jimmy 272]

I have a proposla for you:

Don´t have all the possible positions in the action menu. Just have "Switch seats" in there. this would already seriously declutter the action menu on some vehicles.

If the player selects "switch seats" a menu opens (like the command menu) where he can choose the desired position via number key.

He should only be able to switch seats if

The seat is empty.

His own AI subordinate is on it

If he can access the seat from his current position (for example an Offroad passenger shouldn´t be able to get into the back without exiting the vehicle).

Good suggestion. That would be perfect. I agree 100%.

I also want to say that there are already too much clutter from the actions that could also be removed. Only things that don't have shortcut key are collision lights and things that mods have added.

[twisted 128]

Tonic87 summed it up for me.

[old_painless 182]

A commander should be able to take the seat in which one of his subordinate AI are in, clearly. The commander should also be able to order an AI to take a seat where another AI is sitting, if both are under his command. Effectively switching them around for tactical purposes.

[Variable 322]

I think that any player should override any AI in any condition, whether that AI is commanded by another player or not. Having this any other way would lead to players not being able to quickly take over a critical position such as driver or gunner when the AI is fucking up.

[oukej 2911]

* There is still no Event Handler to know when unit switched seats.

* If switching to any seat is allowed, there has to be possibility to block individual seats from switching to.

... I would like to see ability to control it with script or at very least with config. Also doubling Killzone_Kid about seat change event handlers, it is very needed.

That is already possible with lockDriver/Cargo/Turret commands. Unit is not able to switch to a locked positions (no matter if free or occupied). Would there be a case which can't be covered with these commands?

Could you please also specify the request for eventhandlers? (Consider a FT ticket?)

Thanks a lot!

[killzone_kid 1331]

That is already possible with lockDriver/Cargo/Turret commands. Unit is not able to switch to a locked positions (no matter if free or occupied). Would there be a case which can't be covered with these commands?

Could you please also specify the request for eventhandlers? (Consider a FT ticket?)

Thanks a lot!

Locking seats is not a solutioin as it will also prevent unit from outside entering those seats. The seat switch lockh command should disable stiching to seats from inside the vehicle only.

Also cargoUnit command similar to turretUnit command is welcome.

[oukej 2911]

Locking seats is not a solutioin as it will also prevent unit from outside entering those seats. The seat switch lockh command should disable stiching to seats from inside the vehicle only.

Not sure if I'm getting this right. I'd say there shouldn't be a way to deny switching to a position which can be entered from the outside except of the already available compartment definition in the config (to reflect situations when it's physically impossible to switch). Imo that could create confusion among the players. Could you please give me an example?

[killzone_kid 1331]

Not sure if I'm getting this right. I'd say there shouldn't be a way to deny switching to a position which can be entered from the outside except of the already available compartment definition in the config (to reflect situations when it's physically impossible to switch). Imo that could create confusion among the players. Could you please give me an example?

Maybe I wasn't clear. The seatSwitchDisable command should only disable seat switching. Since you cannot seat switch when outside, it will only work for when you want to seat switch while inside. You said there are already seat locking commands available. I'm saying, seat locking commands will prevent you from entering the seat from outside as well, which is undesirable, as it, as you put is nicely...

...could create confusion among the players

[bad benson 1733]

i really hope this is and effort to fix ANY weirdness with seat switching. i was experiencing some weird ass behaviour when trying to switch seats in multiplayer when working on my custom action menu. no matter what weird forced methods i tried, i could never avoid people getting pushed out of the vehicle after switching seats just fine. which is a disaster when doing it while flying :D switching seats via script IN MP should just work no matter, if you use movein commands or _unit action ["MoveT... instead some weird locality priority stuff is being done that just breaks it.

if someone found a good fail safe way i'd appreciate a pointer. until then i'll just wait for the much appreciated progress on this.

[Variable 322]

BIS if you're already working on that part of code please fix the inability to enter vehicles when the vehicle is local to a different player driver that occurs sometimes on MP.