13€ DLC, hefty price for 2 choppers

[bad benson 1733]

Of course, as I was expecting a BLUFOR Ground Attack helicopter and an OPFOR Anti-air strike/patrol chopper, I am a bit disappointed.

I get the point about enhancing support and logistics so it's just OK for me.

As an Armaverse grunt vet, I will adapt as I have always done ...

that's exactly what some people don't seem to see. this is the same method any other company uses these days. instead of additional stuff that was basically a bonus like in arma 2 the DLCs are now used to basically complete the game.

you feel the support and logistics part is underdeveloped? just wait for the DLC.

you feel like shooting mechanics feel incomplete? wait for the DLC.

i think you see the pattern. it's simple.

by not delivering something complete you can call the missing parts, you then add later, "additions". same goes for "the things they give us for free" btw. these are just features that didn't make it into the game on what they called "release".

as ground breaking as FFV may seem. it's like at least 8 years overdue. and the flight model and rope stuff is been requested since it was seen in take on helos. these are basically the things one could've called actual new features as opposed to physX implementation, under water and anims that don't look retarded. the latter are normal game upgrades that should be a given after so many iterations of the same thing.

i don't mind selling content like this though, couldn't care less about some helos as long as i get the actual features.

what bugs me is that people praise BI for giving them presents and supporting the game after release, when that is just a rebranding of the fact that the game isn't finished to this day and is basically still in BETA (alpha by definition since new features are beign added). i mean look at the changelogs. i see no difference to alpha.

don't get me wrong. they should keep doing it but i won't praise them for features that they just didn't manage to add in time. if you think that they just have these ideas over lunch and then quickly throw them in, you are a bit naive. as far as i can tell there is much more foresight and calculation going into this. too much even. that's why FFV will probably stay in its "budget" state. i hope i'm wrong about the latter though...

[sanguinius51 11]

Hopefully logistics will be greatly improved by this - being able to expertly drop an ammunition box right into the middle of a compound underfire, or a platoon that is pinned down would be awesome - Battle of Long Tan, aussies?

I must admit, while I am disappointed by the fact that there have been two helicopters announced AT THE MOMENT, I have faith that BI will add one or two more, and since helicopters are one of my favourite parts of this game, I myself will be quite pleased. A Eurocopter Tiger would be hella awesome.

And besides, if we only get two, so what? Don't buy it, stay as a passenger. ??? Rather than being locked out of the server that it's being played on, or not seeing the vehicle even though it's there, we still get usability. So don't worry, be happy.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Sigh, i have to agree with the guy above, as i to also have great confidence BI will add in more helicopters. At least 2-3 more than the DLC ones. The Civilians are destined to get one now, i mean think about that hospital with no medical vehicles. Eurocopter Dauphin Medical anyone?

[dav 22]

I spend 10 euros a day on lunch. 50 on petrol per week. I pay rent and have a business in an expensive city. I have no problem spending 13 on dlc if it supports bis. I am sorry but those who oppose the price point want too much for nothing and are stingy.

[eymerich 11]

that's exactly what some people don't seem to see. this is the same method any other company uses these days. instead of additional stuff that was basically a bonus like in arma 2 the DLCs are now used to basically complete the game.

you feel the support and logistics part is underdeveloped? just wait for the DLC.

you feel like shooting mechanics feel incomplete? wait for the DLC.

i think you see the pattern. it's simple.

by not delivering something complete you can call the missing parts, you then add later, "additions". same goes for "the things they give us for free" btw. these are just features that didn't make it into the game on what they called "release".

as ground breaking as FFV may seem. it's like at least 8 years overdue. and the flight model and rope stuff is been requested since it was seen in take on helos. these are basically the things one could've called actual new features as opposed to physX implementation, under water and anims that don't look retarded. the latter are normal game upgrades that should be a given after so many iterations of the same thing.

i don't mind selling content like this though, couldn't care less about some helos as long as i get the actual features.

what bugs me is that people praise BI for giving them presents and supporting the game after release, when that is just a rebranding of the fact that the game isn't finished to this day and is basically still in BETA (alpha by definition since new features are beign added). i mean look at the changelogs. i see no difference to alpha.

don't get me wrong. they should keep doing it but i won't praise them for features that they just didn't manage to add in time. if you think that they just have these ideas over lunch and then quickly throw them in, you are a bit naive. as far as i can tell there is much more foresight and calculation going into this. too much even. that's why FFV will probably stay in its "budget" state. i hope i'm wrong about the latter though...

Totally Agree about this.

I spend 10 euros a day on lunch. 50 on petrol per week. I pay rent and have a business in an expensive city. I have no problem spending 13 on dlc if it supports bis. I am sorry but those who oppose the price point want too much for nothing and are stingy.

Moneys are yours so spend them the way you think is best for you.

In any case, consider that Operation Arrowed was priced 29.99 € (if i am not mistaken) and there was a lot of objects, units and a new Island too.

Not to mention the (new) flir option in some vehicle...

And one more question: support bis for what?

For adding new features when there are a lot of "bugs" (already mentioned in this thread) they doesn't seem to take care of?

[calin_banc 19]

that's exactly what some people don't seem to see. this is the same method any other company uses these days. instead of additional stuff that was basically a bonus like in arma 2 the DLCs are now used to basically complete the game.

you feel the support and logistics part is underdeveloped? just wait for the DLC.

you feel like shooting mechanics feel incomplete? wait for the DLC.

i think you see the pattern. it's simple.

by not delivering something complete you can call the missing parts, you then add later, "additions". same goes for "the things they give us for free" btw. these are just features that didn't make it into the game on what they called "release".

as ground breaking as FFV may seem. it's like at least 8 years overdue. and the flight model and rope stuff is been requested since it was seen in take on helos. these are basically the things one could've called actual new features as opposed to physX implementation, under water and anims that don't look retarded. the latter are normal game upgrades that should be a given after so many iterations of the same thing.

i don't mind selling content like this though, couldn't care less about some helos as long as i get the actual features.

what bugs me is that people praise BI for giving them presents and supporting the game after release, when that is just a rebranding of the fact that the game isn't finished to this day and is basically still in BETA (alpha by definition since new features are beign added). i mean look at the changelogs. i see no difference to alpha.

don't get me wrong. they should keep doing it but i won't praise them for features that they just didn't manage to add in time. if you think that they just have these ideas over lunch and then quickly throw them in, you are a bit naive. as far as i can tell there is much more foresight and calculation going into this. too much even. that's why FFV will probably stay in its "budget" state. i hope i'm wrong about the latter though...

+1

I remember BF BC 2 days when Dice said that they never gonna make the players pay for maps and such. :confused: After seeing how they've handled the development of Day Z, I'm afraid the only thing that's keeping Bohemia from doing it's own "Premium" business model, is the low player base compared to bigger titles out there. Hopefully it won't be the case and with this extra content the game could finally feel complete while future installments will keep at least the present business model.

[chrisb 196]

To be dramatic.. I could cry for this series now..

But to be real and blunt, they have come a long way BI with this series (A3), shame it was in the wrong direction..;)

[Maio 293]

Please consider the fact that they had/have a small team working on a very complex game, that:

Lost their project leader during development.

The project was restructured.

Two of their developers were arrested during development (Creative director and Lead map artist).

The project had be to be restructured once again.

So, since none of us have access to their business plan, end of financial year turnover figures and last but not least their internal roadmap and the attached operational budget, none of us can make a truly educated comment on the "fair/right" way they should price their content, without infusing said comment with our personal dissatisfaction towards certain aspects of the game and by doing so filtering out the fact that BI is a business and has to take objective, calculated risks.

That being said, since I do not want to come off as a mouth piece for BI, I had wished and still do :) that BI would include some more interaction within the cockpit (and other vehicles as well) similar to what we have in Take on Helicopters. Having a little more to do would greatly enhance the gameplay experience for both the vehicle operators and the ground troops. Oh and since we can sling-load objects now,a turn-out option would be great, since not all players use 3'rd person.

Thanks!

[haleks 8206]

To be dramatic.. I could cry for this series now..

But to be real and blunt, they have come a long way BI with this series (A3), shame it was in the wrong direction..;)

Hahaha! Made my day! ;)

@Maio : You speak wisely - but the lack of communication from BI on various important subjects doesn't help either...

[toysoldier 35]

The price is for my not the problem, but why should i support dlcs when the main game are not fixed.

[Maio 293]

The price is for my not the problem, but why should i support dlcs when the main game are not fixed.

Because a chunk of the money they get from players buying the DLC's they put out goes toward keeping the studio operational and allowing them to fix and improve the game/series. Core game features such as firing from vehicles, the new helicopter flight model and sling loading are still being delivered for free.

The way I see it, the players who choose to pay for the DLC, get far more than full access to the content. They realize the potential of the Arma platform and the gameplay/learning possibilities it offers and decide to invest in a stable future for it.

[metalcraze 290]

Would you have been more satisfied with your purchase if the helicopter FDM, sling loading and firing from vehicle features had been a part of the DLC?

How about it being a part of ArmA3 on release as was hyped so hard only some 2 years ago?

The way I see it, the players who choose to pay for the DLC, get far more than full access to the content. They realize the potential of the Arma platform and the gameplay/learning possibilities it offers and decide to invest in a stable future for it.

$60 for a game with half of promised features missing and many not being on par with ArmA2 still - was not a fair price? Pay double/tripple price for 2 choppers while CSAT/AAF/NATO are still mostly the same faction with just different skins/models for the same vehicles?

How much more $$$ will BIS need to finally give factions unique vehicles instead of adding more to the horrible copy-pasta?

Edited September 29, 2014 by metalcraze

[windies 11]

Because a chunk of the money they get from players buying the DLC's they put out goes toward keeping the studio operational and allowing them to fix and improve the game/series. Core game features such as firing from vehicles, the new helicopter flight model and sling loading are still being delivered for free.

The way I see it, the players who choose to pay for the DLC, get far more than full access to the content. They realize the potential of the Arma platform and the gameplay/learning possibilities it offers and decide to invest in a stable future for it.

I could see that, if that's how it worked. Rather it's more like, "Player buys DLC, supports BI, BI does what it wants irregardless of what the game or playerbase wants/needs". That's the biggest problem and honestly I think they are becoming out of touch with their fanbase and their platform. If you ask why performance problems aren't solved, you always get the response of money or time. What you're saying is DLC gives them both money and time, yet do the problems get fixed? It's basically the same response for any problem, there's always an excuse. If it was truly about supporting them, if the DLC should be bought on the basis of support and not content, then at the very least I wouldn't mind seeing proper support of the platform, and less excuses like "It's too hard" or "It would take too long", "We don't have the financial resources" etc... There's just too much wrong anymore and it seems like nothing ever gets fixed, so saying that you should buy based on future support is pretty weak reasoning IMHO.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

The price is fair for the DLC, with all the features, but I came to the conclusion that they should make some improvements to existing content to make it fit in better for the whole. Example? Making the Caro Ramp of the Mohawk accessible re same way the Huron's is. Maybe even add a gunned position to the ramp via. FFV. Besides, as it stands, a lot of the current helicopters are simply boring models with not a lot going for them. A little more life makes all the difference.

[hogscraper 10]

I completely understand their DLC thought process and its ignorant at best. The released DLC as well as the planned heli and marksman dlc's are stupid when compared to their DLC releases for Arma2. Arma2 had complete packages as DLC. There was a little something for everyone and that helped people justify the expense. If you liked vehicles, the DLC might have that. If you liked new weapons, the DLC probably had something you could enjoy. New skins or graphic upgrades? Some of that to go around as well. These new DLC have a stupidly narrow scope in who they might appeal to. I enjoy fighting on the ground and especially CQC. I don't generally enjoy using sniper rifles, couldn't care less about advanced flight mechanics and have never thought that driving a go kart was missing from my Arma3 experience. That's not to say that those are bad things, I just have zero reason to buy them. Out of a dozen or so people in our TS last night only two guys were interested in the marksman stuff and that was it. Why spend time developing content that only appeals to a specialized group of your fan base?

I also understand that they are actually being quite generous in the way they are doing their DLC with not forcing people to buy it and allowing people to have some of the experience but that entirely ignores the fact that official content, that most players can completely enjoy, is what keeps games like this alive. It just fails to make any sense from a money stand point or for keeping the vast majority of your fanbase interested. Its obvious that they intend on releasing extremely specialized, premium DLC at a premium price. And for those specialized areas of interest it makes sense. It just doesn't make sense to the rest of us when we know that a year from now, the game will likely still be the same content-wise. If I'm writing a mission, I have zero reason to place a vehicle that I can't pilot. Am I to hope that maybe a client that joins will have it and pilot it for our soldiers? And if they don't I then have a wasted model taking up space in my mission. Should I bother to add certain weapon names to crates in the hopes that maybe a client joining will want them there? For me it will be out of sight, out of mind. Again, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but its definitely not something that is beneficial to the game's long term health. It makes me doubly worried when I hear that such a small team is working on Arma3. That means they are using already strained resources to release content that will be bringing in much less money and appealing to a smaller fanbase section than previous DLC types and that means even less development dollars down the road.

[calin_banc 19]

Please consider the fact that they had/have a small team working on a very complex game, that:

Lost their project leader during development.

The project was restructured.

Two of their developers were arrested during development (Creative director and Lead map artist).

The project had be to be restructured once again.

So, since none of us have access to their business plan, end of financial year turnover figures and last but not least their internal roadmap and the attached operational budget, none of us can make a truly educated comment on the "fair/right" way they should price their content, without infusing said comment with our personal dissatisfaction towards certain aspects of the game and by doing so filtering out the fact that BI is a business and has to take objective, calculated risks.

That being said, since I do not want to come off as a mouth piece for BI, I had wished and still do :) that BI would include some more interaction within the cockpit (and other vehicles as well) similar to what we have in Take on Helicopters. Having a little more to do would greatly enhance the gameplay experience for both the vehicle operators and the ground troops. Oh and since we can sling-load objects now,a turn-out option would be great, since not all players use 3'rd person.

Thanks!

The arrests shouldn't have had any impact on performance (single and multiplayer) and AI improvements plus other short comings of the engine.

For new content I may understand the pricing IF it was significant (the content I mean), but no way for features such as shooting from the vehicles or something similar brought by the DLC. That (and others) should have been in the game from the beginning.

[chompster 29]

The price is fair for the DLC, with all the features

But it isn't for all the features. And that's what bothers me. No i'm not trying to say that they should have all been part of the DLC, the way they want to do things in order not to segregate the community/playerbase is great and all, but as the one actually paying i feel that i'm nowhere near getting my money worth. Because you're literally paying 13€(or your local currency equivalent) to be able to pilot 2 helicopters that will be in the game regardless. That just doesn't sit right with me.

I get that all the additional content and features needs to be paid for, but seeing how everyone is getting access to all these things in someway, those paying should at least get something more out of it in the form of more content or some exclusive feature(like the sling loading..)

[eymerich 11]

Because a chunk of the money they get from players buying the DLC's they put out goes toward keeping the studio operational and allowing them to fix and improve the game/series. Core game features such as firing from vehicles, the new helicopter flight model and sling loading are still being delivered for free.

The way I see it, the players who choose to pay for the DLC, get far more than full access to the content. They realize the potential of the Arma platform and the gameplay/learning possibilities it offers and decide to invest in a stable future for it.

Although I could be wrong (and maybe I am), I'm seriously doubtfull that the main problem, here, is a financial issue: from my point of view, if you are "budget-limited" you would'nt thrown away 500.000 euros as prize for a competition (I, at least, would'nt do that).

In any case, if I have to support a company with my money then I would like to espress my opinion in the features I would like; if this is not going to happen, from my point of view, Bis is only selling a product which I am free to purchase or not.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

But it isn't for all the features. And that's what bothers me. No i'm not trying to say that they should have all been part of the DLC, the way they want to do things in order not to segregate the community/playerbase is great and all, but as the one actually paying i feel that i'm nowhere near getting my money worth. Because you're literally paying 13€(or your local currency equivalent) to be able to pilot 2 helicopters that will be in the game regardless. That just doesn't sit right with me.

I get that all the additional content and features needs to be paid for, but seeing how everyone is getting access to all these things in someway, those paying should at least get something more out of it in the form of more content or some exclusive feature(like the sling loading..)

True i suppose... So my second conclusion is this. BIS said there would be a new logistical Game Mode (starting to sound like BF4, new game modes. Lol jk), so why not either lower the price for the DLC to better suit it's payed content, and host 10 or so Dedicated Servers, that can be donated to by the community, as many members see that BIS deserves donation due to the feat's they pulled off with FFV (firing from Vehicles), Sling Loading, and the TKOH flight model moved over and enhanced. That, or add more content in, either before release, or further down the line to fit the price that people don't see is fair for being able to pilot the two new Helo's.

[ProfTournesol 956]

True. While i wouldn't really be interested into buying two helos if i wasn't already granted with them because of my supporter status, i'd gladly donate 13€ for FFV only and another 13€ for weapon resting only.

[miketim 20]

I am pretty sure the way it works is that BI knows they have two crowds, they make the features to please those who arent buying it and use the money from dlc to "fund" that effort.

[dav 22]

Oh no 13 bucks it's time to get a second job. Come on people.

[esfumato 75]

The game needs a good military game mode for multiplayer.

Having a game that is finished when arma 4 is releashed is the reason i will not buy DayZ (i am in zombie games) and won't buy DLC's or any other BIS game.

[haleks 8206]

Oh no 13 bucks it's time to get a second job. Come on people.

...Wether someone can afford it or not is not the point...

(Obviously everyone can afford to pay 13 bucks.)

[PuFu 4591]

it is part of the point, especially if you read the posts here...