13€ DLC, hefty price for 2 choppers

[Tankbuster 1733]

The basic premise of the thread is valid. It IS a lot to pay for a couple of helicopters.

[chompster 29]

No, it's not part of the point. i'm sure most of those that aren't too happy with it have already bought it.

"then why are you complaining??" because if you don't, they're going to assume you're fine with giving them money and getting little in return

I got the bundle, but if they ever do more DLC i'm waiting for more info first. They really shouldn't even be putting DLC up until they can clearly show what you're getting.

[smokedog3para 365]

2 Million copy's of dayz = £40 million at £20 also arma3 has over a million sales at just £20 another 20 million so that's about 60 million pounds, and not every one got the £20 alpha price some bought the supporter edition so could be even more, so i think we have chipped in some for the features that should be there and hope to have more in the future like towing should be, ill buy it like i always do with the dlc even if i don't use it like the pmc and acr and tkoh i have but i don't like it.

This quality over quantity is taking a step to far, break the a2 dlc down baf small collection of vehicles and units same for acr and pmc compare the package to the a2 ones and a2 dlc offer more for less so these models best look the business if all were paying for is quality same for bug free as the quantity went out the window 2 years ago.

[calin_banc 19]

2 Million copy's of dayz = £40 million

Still, they only considered to change and fix the renderer and engine (which both are/were broken before and are now as well - ArmA 3 included) due to the PS4 port, according to Dean, although they are close to Star Citizen in money collected from the community. :rolleyes: That is happening here as well.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

...Wether someone can afford it or not is not the point...

(Obviously everyone can afford to pay 13 bucks.)

Most people can also flush 5€ down the toilet, doesn't mean that it's money well spent.

And objectively, that's the point of the thread. Currently the apparent difference between flushing 13€ down the toilet and buying Helo's DLC for that price is access to 2 helicopter pilot seats and a scenario or two.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Sniperwolf572

[yxman 90]

I hope they are going back to the good old addon plan, i would instant buy a addon (like operation arrowhead) even for 40-60$, but i dont support this dlc cancer. This DLC strategy is so EA like but even worse (content wise).

[the_demongod 31]

The basic premise of the thread is valid. It IS a lot to pay for a couple of helicopters.

No, it's not really. And not only is it not a lot, you're also paying for every single other feature that you're getting from this DLC. Slingloading, FFV, RotorLib, the improved logistical cargo, etc. are all part of the DLC, BI is just being nice enough to expect you to pay more for the helicopters because you're reasonable enough to realize that all the content and features from the DLC is worth well over $20.

I hope they are going back to the good old addon plan, i would instant buy a addon (like operation arrowhead) even for 40-60$, but i dont support this dlc cancer. This DLC strategy is so EA like but even worse (content wise).

If it's worse than EA's, go play Battlefield. We don't need that attitude here.

[chortles 263]

@ yxman: It's not a "going back to the good old addon plan", because BI has already confirmed that they're doing both... just like they did with OA. ;)

[mistyronin 1181]

I hope they are going back to the good old addon plan, i would instant buy a addon (like operation arrowhead) even for 40-60$, but i dont support this dlc cancer. This DLC strategy is so EA like but even worse (content wise).

If we have to talk coldly about money and strategies:

I do own some EA titles for instance BF4 costed me about 70€ ( with one DLC ), and it delivers few content and limited gameplay. I don't complain because I knew it before paying and I'm OK with the conditions. I have played about 30 hours.

2,3€ x hour for limited content

And A3 + DLC bundle together costed me 42€. And it delivered way more content and more gameplay, well I've been playing the game for more than 1500 hours ( not to talk about the point that BI supports the mod community so we have virtually thousands of new stuff ).

0,028€ x hour for unlimited content

Yeah it feels like BI and EA strategy to suck money is alike...

( I can also talk about the Sims 3 + Expansions + DLCs I bought to my wife, more than 500€... )

Edited September 30, 2014 by MistyRonin

[yxman 90]

@the_Demongod: i hate battlefield&ea just for your information

@Chortles: in a2 days u could also use the dlc content only with low texture (way better!)

DLC just splits the player community, just have a look at another example: Borderlands 2

Its just my opinion, i hate DLCs (software cancer).

And the Helicopter DLC shows clearly the future, "3 guns only 15$, 1 plastic chair only 0.99$ or new shemaghs for 1.99$ each."

Or just think about what u got with the arma2 DLC compared to the a3 DLC

Edited October 1, 2014 by yxman

[CaptainObvious 95]

DLC just splits the player community

How exactly does this new DLC strategy split the community?

[chortles 263]

DLC just splits the player community

On the contrary, the whole point of how BI implemented A2 DLC was specifically to avoid this... though I distinctly remember some people admitting that instead of buying the DLCs for higher-res textures, they just wouldn't place the DLC contents in their missions at all, so BI wasn't getting their money anyway. :rolleyes:

Or just think about what u got with the arma2 DLC compared to the a3 DLC

Oh I did... and the answer was "$10 for less blurred-smear textures and a SP campaign of varying quality". ;)

[almanzo 144]

I do own some EA titles for instance BF4 costed me about 70€ ( with one DLC ), and it delivers few content and limited gameplay. I don't complain because I knew it before paying and I'm OK with the conditions. I have played about 30 hours.

I would like to point out that BF4 has shitloads of content, the amount of guns in BF4 is immense, but then again... It's a completely different game, and thus it's very hard to compare.

What we can compare with though, is the old DLC's for ARMA II. I've bought every single one of them, all of them came with a single player campaign, loads of new units, weapons and vehicles and countless other assets. The DLC deals for ARMA II is among the best deals I've encountered in a video game ever, maybe apart from the expantion packs for Operation flashpoint, both of them added hours to my enjoyment of the title.

As much as I love BIS, and as much as I applaud their intentions, the execution here has been a bit off. I welcome the new features, they are features I've wanted for years. But there are still alot of things with ARMA III that makes me miss ARMA II. And yes, it does split the community. Just a heads up, I payed for the DLC bundle. But the fact that I play ARMA in a community, and that I am so far the only one who have bought this DLC makes it rather obvious... I am most likely never going to be able to fly said two choppers in our sessions due to the fact that our mission makers won't include content that are limited to one or two members of the community. If all of us aren't able to take a certain slot, nobody is going to. Low res models where easier to include... If it bothers our members that one chopper or an APC we used looked sub-par, pay to have it look nicer. Make it functional, but that's it.

What I would have liked to see, is DLCs in the style we used to get before, with loads of content. Would I be willing to pay more than 14 euros for that? Most definately, I would even pay for a strictly civillian DLC right now, one that added more vehicles, female civillians, civillian helis, emergency vehicles and personell and so on, even though it should have been part of the base game. I am sympathetic towards bis, and I don't regret buying the DLC because I want to keep them afloat. But they have been leaving behind alot of policies that I used to love. I feel pretty confident though, that some of the design choices in ARMA III have made it much more difficult to produce quality content for it, and that that's the reason for the lack of content. It's easy to demonstrate as well, even though there are alot of good vehicle mods and stuff out there for ARMA III, the mods available are often far from as good as the vanilla content. In ARMA II, mods where equally good alot of the time as the vanilla content. The more advanced features and simulations have made making units, weapons and vehicles much more difficult and thus we get less content than we where used to. I get that the situation is difficult, but I would rather wait longer and pay way more for a proper expantion pack than to get small content additions like these.

I don't think BIS is greedy, it's just that their strategy is subpar.

[chortles 263]

@ aLmAnZo: A fundamental issue to me with the nostalgia (that's the correct word here) for the Lite DLC value comparison is that the content itself was NOT behind the pay wall -- just like RotorLib, sling-loading, and FFV aren't -- so in fact "what am I paying for in BAF/PMC/ACR" was actually a lot less than most people here seem to be claiming... because the "loads of new units, weapons and vehicles and countless other assets" were already in OA.

"I would rather wait longer and pay way more for a proper expantion pack than to get small content additions like these."

You may rest assured that both are coming. :D I wouldn't be surprised if the DLCs are being released because any sales thereof (bundle or not) would help fund the expansion development...

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I would like to point out that BF4 has shitloads of content, the amount of guns in BF4 is immense, but then again... It's a completely different game, and thus it's very hard to compare.

What we can compare with though, is the old DLC's for ARMA II. I've bought every single one of them, all of them came with a single player campaign, loads of new units, weapons and vehicles and countless other assets. The DLC deals for ARMA II is among the best deals I've encountered in a video game ever, maybe apart from the expantion packs for Operation flashpoint, both of them added hours to my enjoyment of the title.

As much as I love BIS, and as much as I applaud their intentions, the execution here has been a bit off. I welcome the new features, they are features I've wanted for years. But there are still alot of things with ARMA III that makes me miss ARMA II. And yes, it does split the community. Just a heads up, I payed for the DLC bundle. But the fact that I play ARMA in a community, and that I am so far the only one who have bought this DLC makes it rather obvious... I am most likely never going to be able to fly said two choppers in our sessions due to the fact that our mission makers won't include content that are limited to one or two members of the community. If all of us aren't able to take a certain slot, nobody is going to. Low res models where easier to include... If it bothers our members that one chopper or an APC we used looked sub-par, pay to have it look nicer. Make it functional, but that's it.

What I would have liked to see, is DLCs in the style we used to get before, with loads of content. Would I be willing to pay more than 14 euros for that? Most definately, I would even pay for a strictly civillian DLC right now, one that added more vehicles, female civillians, civillian helis, emergency vehicles and personell and so on, even though it should have been part of the base game. I am sympathetic towards bis, and I don't regret buying the DLC because I want to keep them afloat. But they have been leaving behind alot of policies that I used to love. I feel pretty confident though, that some of the design choices in ARMA III have made it much more difficult to produce quality content for it, and that that's the reason for the lack of content. It's easy to demonstrate as well, even though there are alot of good vehicle mods and stuff out there for ARMA III, the mods available are often far from as good as the vanilla content. In ARMA II, mods where equally good alot of the time as the vanilla content. The more advanced features and simulations have made making units, weapons and vehicles much more difficult and thus we get less content than we where used to. I get that the situation is difficult, but I would rather wait longer and pay way more for a proper expantion pack than to get small content additions like these.

I don't think BIS is greedy, it's just that their strategy is subpar.

Very well put, echoes my thoughts on this subject precisely.

[calin_banc 19]

No, it's not really. And not only is it not a lot, you're also paying for every single other feature that you're getting from this DLC. Slingloading, FFV, RotorLib, the improved logistical cargo, etc. are all part of the DLC, BI is just being nice enough to expect you to pay more for the helicopters because you're reasonable enough to realize that all the content and features from the DLC is worth well over $20.

Those assets/characteristic should have been in the main game at launch, to be honest. There should have been a natural progression of the series, features that lack in previous installments and were on the "must" list. Bohemia and Bethesda's attitude of "let the community enrich our games", is not good at all. Helicopters + Marksman DLCs represents content that was required in the game to start with.

On the other hand, to buy just this DLC alone or each of them at a time, is kind of... let's say a bad investment. 20 euros for the whole pack is not that much and probably we should asses this/these DLC(s) business better in that light.

PS: After the final patch, BF 4 is finally enjoyable to play, as it should from day 1. None to say Dice and EA don't support their products... after a shit storm. :p

Edited October 1, 2014 by calin_banc

[Sniperwolf572 758]

@ aLmAnZo: A fundamental issue to me with the nostalgia (that's the correct word here) for the Lite DLC value comparison is that the content itself was NOT behind the pay wall -- just like RotorLib, sling-loading, and FFV aren't -- so in fact "what am I paying for in BAF/PMC/ACR" was actually a lot less than most people here seem to be claiming... because the "loads of new units, weapons and vehicles and countless other assets" were already in OA.

There is no nostalgia, and your fact is wrong. Even if the DLC gating was the same as in Arma 3, the content you "unlocked" with any one of those DLC's was vastly superior compared to what Helos is so far.

Free features on the other hand, were underwhelming, but you never felt like it was paying a tax on free features you already had.

[chompster 29]

No, it's not really. And not only is it not a lot, you're also paying for every single other feature that you're getting from this DLC. Slingloading, FFV, RotorLib, the improved logistical cargo, etc. are all part of the DLC, BI is just being nice enough to expect you to pay more for the helicopters because you're reasonable enough to realize that all the content and features from the DLC is worth well over $20.

Again, no you aren't paying for the features because everyone is getting them for free anyway.

And they're being nice enough to expect you to pay more lolwut??

How is that being nice? So they're being nice by expecting me to cover the cost of a bunch of other freeloaders who won't get the DLC, and as a reward they'll allow me to fly 2 helicopters without an annoying pop-up? Oh man how generous of them...

Edited October 1, 2014 by Chompster

[ProfTournesol 956]

It would have been nice if the DLC would come with a kind of Eagle Wing campaign, only for the DLC buyers.

Edited October 1, 2014 by ProfTournesol
my English sux

[almanzo 144]

@ aLmAnZo: A fundamental issue to me with the nostalgia (that's the correct word here) for the Lite DLC value comparison is that the content itself was NOT behind the pay wall -- just like RotorLib, sling-loading, and FFV aren't -- so in fact "what am I paying for in BAF/PMC/ACR" was actually a lot less than most people here seem to be claiming... because the "loads of new units, weapons and vehicles and countless other assets" were already in OA.

"I would rather wait longer and pay way more for a proper expantion pack than to get small content additions like these."

You may rest assured that both are coming. :D I wouldn't be surprised if the DLCs are being released because any sales thereof (bundle or not) would help fund the expansion development...

The old DLC model was accepted with open arms without any controversy what so ever, in fact the community was praising BIS as a company who was bold enough to challange current business models with their DLC strategy. The lores textured models where more than enough incentive for me... Actually, what made me buy the DLC's was simply due to my trust in BIS and the philosophy behind the strategies. The campaigns included in all of the DLC's where extensive, btw... and at least in the case of BAF, they tried to adress an ever returning complaint with the campaign, the lack of diversity in vehicle use.

The content was and wasn't behind a pay wall at the same time. Everyone could try the content in the DLC out with full functionality in the editor and in community made missions, but the campaigns and the decent resoluted units where hidden behind the pay wall. And again, the sheer number of units where immense, especially BAF. Here is a snippet from the feature list:

New Weapons

New personal weapons from modern British Armed Forces armory, featuring L85A2, L86A2 rifles, L110A1 machine gun, LRR and AWSO sniper rifles and NLAW AT launcher.

New Vehicles

New British ground and air vehicles, featuring the AH11 Wildcat and HC-3 Merlin helicopters; and Jackal 2 MWMIK and FV510 Warrior vehicles.

in total, they claim this:

Extra Units and Vehicles

Multiple factions for all sides including US Army, United Nations, Takistani Army and Guerrillas making a collection of 300+ new units, weapons and vehicles

Also considering that you got a full campaign, I would say that the value for money in this was way surpased what Heli DLC offers. In the case of PMC DLC, we also got new terrains. Albeit small, quite a huge addition for a really small amount of money.

I hate to say this, but the current DLC model reminds me much more about The sims and the rediculously scamlike DLC strategy they use than the old model they used. The difference between the two is the intention behind it. I don't think BIS is willfully trying to scam us out of money, but I must say I prefer the old model much, much more.

The thing is, I find this really sad. I love ARMA for all it's worth, but I also feel powerless, helpless and sad to see that the company I've used as an example of good business behaviour now are leaving those behind. I also feel powerless because I know that it's very unlikely that they will change this possibility now, and that the game will never be as rich in content as ARMA II ever was, even at launch. Thing is, there is no alternative to ARMA. There isn't any competition, so I'm stuck with BIS.

The development of ARMA III has been riddled with hoops and troubles, I know. But the same is true for ARMA I and ARMA II as well. Game2 was never released, BIS where near bankrupt before ARMA II release and so on. BIS has never been in a more lucurative possition than they are now. DayZ has made BIS play in a very different leage, a leage that allows them to throw 500 000 euros on prices for the community (An effort I highly, highly endorse btw). They are in a much better position for making ARMA reach it's potential, and I find it sad that they choose to go down the road we now are on. But I think it's more a result of ignorance than greed.

You end your post by saying:

Rest assured, both are comming.

I am sorry, but I am in doubt. No DLC or expantion will fix the fact that all factions use the same turrets for their vehicles, no expantion will deliver enough content to give the amount of content ARMA II had, not even close. Some of the DLCs for ARMA II delivered more content for the price of a DLC than ARMA III currently have... A huge expantion of content in ARMA III is not going to happen... It might get better, sure... But I really doubt that it will be enough.

The lack of content and the fact that all the gear is modernized means that the game is much simpler than ARMA II was. Gunning in a vehicle used to demand that the gunner knew how to range and adjust, and having a spotter would increase your effieciency by a large factor for instance. With all of the vehicles having zoomable optics, inbuilt range finders and are having the gunner safe and sound behind an armed chassy it makes vehicle warfare much less interesting. This is only one aspect.

Then the launchers... The RPG7 in ARMA II had several warheads, now we have what? 5 launchers or so in total, if even that? None with different warheads if I'm not wrong? I don't see ARMA III ever becomming on par with ARMA II. If it was up to me, I would still be playing ARMA II with ACE and miss a few features from ARMA III... But sadly my community has moved on to ARMA III.

Edited October 1, 2014 by aLmAnZo

[13islucky 10]

It would have been nice if the DLC came with a kind of Eagle Wing campaign, only for the DLC buyers.

Oh yeah, EW was pretty good. Honestly my most memorable A2 singleplayer experience (and before you say anything no, I did not play much A2 SP).

[Bouben 3]

People who don't recognize features as a proper content are... strange...

I would prefer to get only features with each DLC and no new objects at all. I would be more than happy with that. Objects are useless if the gameplay (which is based on features) is not good enough.

In other words: would you want to have more quantity of tanks in the game if the tanks behaved as bicycles in the first place? I really don't understand this "content" obsession.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

People who don't recognize features as a proper content are... strange...

Features are the best part, but basically it's down to what you are actually paying for. Currently the way BI have set up their DLC is as if I was selling pizzas like so:

You can get a pizza with no toppings for free, but if you ask for some ketchup on it, the price of the pizza is suddenly 13€.

So, what did those 13€ buy you?

[Bouben 3]

Features are the best part, but basically it's down to what you are actually paying for. Currently the way BI have set up their DLC is as if I was selling pizzas like so:

You can get a pizza with no toppings for free, but if you ask for some ketchup on it, the price of the pizza is suddenly 13€.

So, what did those 13€ buy you?

Well written, I understand that. It does not give much sense to me either.

[mr burns 131]

Features are the best part, but basically it's down to what you are actually paying for. Currently the way BI have set up their DLC is as if I was selling pizzas like so:

You can get a pizza with no toppings for free, but if you ask for some ketchup on it, the price of the pizza is suddenly 13€.

So, what did those 13€ buy you?

In your example? Damn expensive ketchup! :D

As for the current DLC situation: it buys you the absence of (i guess) 20 Lines of config & script mumbo jumbo that disables stuff for non payers.

I agree it´s all strange. But i never like changes.

I also agree when people say that we´ve come a long way since "6$ horse armor dlc" which gave you a whooping 60kb download.

Can´t say i liked the old "smudge texture" approach any better, as i simply didn´t use the stuff then, which contradicts the stuff being there in the first place.

edit @ thread title: It´s gonna be a frickin skycrane and a chinook right? I don´t see me needing this, can enjoy slingloads and new FM with current choppers, as is.

Now if anyone loves those two features to a degree where he says "I CANNOT LIVE W/O A SKYCRAAANE" and is okay to pay 13€ ... big deal, let ´em have fun with it :)

Edited October 1, 2014 by Mr Burns