Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)

[drill 1]

I know a lot of players (including myself) who moved from Arma 2 to Arma 3 due to its superior weapon handling, its weapon sway and inertia implementation (and thus more realistic and interesting firefights on real distances) as one of the main reasons.

Though not everything is better in Arma 3 than in Arma 2, the new weapon sway and inertia systems are definitely great improvements to the game.

[twisted 128]

I know a lot of players (including myself) who moved from Arma 2 to Arma 3 due to its superior weapon handling, its weapon sway and inertia implementation (and thus more realistic and interesting firefights on real distances) as one of the main reasons.

Though not everything is better in Arma 3 than in Arma 2, the new weapon sway and inertia systems are definitely great improvements to the game.

hope the marksman mod brings even more refinement to this. the breathing tied to the wespon is nice. bipod and weapon resting (IF they, as the MOST requested thing on the tracker) are implemented would take it to the next level where accuracy can be gained at the expensive of mobility and fast direction change.

[roshnak 41]

Sway and recoil system is terrible and it keeps alot of A2 players from arma3, almost every person i asked why havent you moved to arma3? They say its right up there as one of the main reasons.

Why didn't they move to Arma 3 in the year that it was out before the addition of the current sway and inertia mechanics?

[DancZer 65]

Maybe it's a part of a bigger re-factoring or something like that.

[haleks 8212]

Sway and recoil system is terrible and it keeps alot of A2 players from arma3, almost every person i asked why havent you moved to arma3? They say its right up there as one of the main reasons.

I have to admit, this game would be so frustrating if VTS simple weapon resting didn't exist. I tried for a long time to play without it, but being constantly headshot by an AI from afar while trying to aim isn't my definition of fun.

The day the AI is affected by recoil & sway will completely change Arma3 (for the better), but until then... praised be the modders!

Edited January 19, 2015 by Pepe Hal

[bullhorn 18]

Came here to say the same thing, with one note.

I don't entirely mind the sway because it isn't very easy to aim in real life, especially after you're moving - but - the AI seems to be able to kill us in 1 shot 360noscope almost every time. That, is just terrible.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Came here to say the same thing, with one note.

I don't entirely mind the sway because it isn't very easy to aim in real life, especially after you're moving - but - the AI seems to be able to kill us in 1 shot 360noscope almost every time. That, is just terrible.

Yep the sway isn't that bad if the AI wouldn't 180 quick turn and shoot. But inertia could need some more tweaking because it feels overdone (or just totally wrong when weapon has inertia) with some basic rifle

[twisted 128]

Came here to say the same thing, with one note.

I don't entirely mind the sway because it isn't very easy to aim in real life, especially after you're moving - but - the AI seems to be able to kill us in 1 shot 360noscope almost every time. That, is just terrible.

i hear you, i have VTS installed as well REALLY HOPE BIS brings well thought-through and immactuely implemented bipods and weapon resting, but have you seen this discussion on the accuracy settings AI should be set to (0.32 is the max aiming accuracy). http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159710-AI-Discussion-(dev-branch)&p=2842083&viewfull=1#post2842083

[dnk 13]

Yeah, I should note that my comments on sway were purely limited to PvP.

Against anything but weak (read: 0.2-0.25 skill) AI, sway is horridly hard to deal with, but that's more an issue with the AI and mission makers not balancing things well than it is an issue with the sway system.

[HaZZarD 2]

I have to admit, this game would be so frustrating if VTS simple weapon resting didn't exist. I tried for a long time to play without it, but being constantly headshot by an AI from afar while trying to aim isn't my definition of fun.

The day the AI is affected by recoil & sway will completely change Arma3 (for the better), but until then... praised be the modders!

This and suppressive fire mechanism = almost perfect gameplay IMO

[blackpixxel 53]

The worst thing for me about the current sway and inertia is the horrible performance of the game. How sould I counter the sway or even the insane recoil with 15 fps and a huge input delay?

[Tejkr 13]

Ok, I just gave A3 a nice amount of playing and I fckin hate weapon sway!

Like I play military simulations and that's how much I exercise, but this new fatigue system made fat little boys out of soldiers and even I could easily outrun them.

I mean, even I, with my condition, can run more then them without swinging the gun all over the place and not being able at least walk fast.

For example simple mission - Pandur will drop my team near the village, we clear the village and on the other side, Pandur will pick us up. But I almost can't get half way through the village without swinging my weapon like a broom and slowly walking around, because my super skilled sf operator is out of his breath. And it's a small village in Chernarus.

I can only imagine how bad it would be, if A2 used this fatigue system. I mean, force recon would never make it in time, assaulting the city would be entirely impossible.

Just move the slider to give soldier more stamina, or maybe just make the weapon sway less, because I don't know, it's really weird when my soldier just moves her hands like slowmo parkinson degenerate.

Maybe the dev team should take a gun, some gear and start running around, then try to hold rifle straight. It's not that hard, yes? You don't swing your arms like you waving the flag.

Please, do something. I don't want to use enableFatigue, I just want to be able to do soldier stuff without being little tired baby.

[twisted 128]

Ok, I just gave A3 a nice amount of playing and I fckin hate weapon sway!

Like I play military simulations and that's how much I exercise, but this new fatigue system made fat little boys out of soldiers and even I could easily outrun them.

I mean, even I, with my condition, can run more then them without swinging the gun all over the place and not being able at least walk fast.

For example simple mission - Pandur will drop my team near the village, we clear the village and on the other side, Pandur will pick us up. But I almost can't get half way through the village without swinging my weapon like a broom and slowly walking around, because my super skilled sf operator is out of his breath. And it's a small village in Chernarus.

I can only imagine how bad it would be, if A2 used this fatigue system. I mean, force recon would never make it in time, assaulting the city would be entirely impossible.

Just move the slider to give soldier more stamina, or maybe just make the weapon sway less, because I don't know, it's really weird when my soldier just moves her hands like slowmo parkinson degenerate.

Maybe the dev team should take a gun, some gear and start running around, then try to hold rifle straight. It's not that hard, yes? You don't swing your arms like you waving the flag.

Please, do something. I don't want to use enableFatigue, I just want to be able to do soldier stuff without being little tired baby.

hint. try stop loading up all the things (lmg or big sniper rifle plus launher and lots of ammo and maybe mines as well) onto your character and sprinting everywhere.

I play the same game as you and do not automatically have the mad sway everywhere (like its waving a flag) or run out of stamina that much. Only if i sprint a lot.

another hint - its been shown it takes just seconds to recover stamina if you stop running all the time and crouch.

another hint, double click ctrl button to lower your weapon when running - that reduces the speed at which you lose stamina.

hope that helps.

[djotacon 190]

hint. try stop loading up all the things (lmg or big sniper rifle plus launher and lots of ammo and maybe mines as well) onto your character and sprinting everywhere.

I play the same game as you and do not automatically have the mad sway everywhere (like its waving a flag) or run out of stamina that much. Only if i sprint a lot.

another hint - its been shown it takes just seconds to recover stamina if you stop running all the time and crouch.

another hint, double click ctrl button to lower your weapon when running - that reduces the speed at which you lose stamina.

hope that helps.

Is very funny see like some arma 3 player is trying justify an exaggerated implementation.

Currently fatigue is so exaggerated that only ran 50m soldier practically can not shoot.

So the developers have already recognized that will "refine" the system.

If instead of following the "doubtful" example of other games would have made an implementation basing on human behavior we would have one of the best fatigue and sway system of the world.

Instead we have all the players more concerned about not getting tired players than shoot properly.

I personally do not think a single euro invest more in the game until I see the fatigue system and trigger properly implemented.

[vegeta897 13]

It's not funny to see some Arma 3 player storm into this thread with exaggerations and non-useful remarks. And then when someone replies to it offering suggestions, they're ignored.

You can run 50 meters and shoot. You can't sprint for 50 meters with an unrealistic amount of gear on you and expect to have no ill effects without resting. Give us some real data if you want to complain about specific outcomes that you're unhappy with.

Why have a stamina system at all if players shouldn't have to be concerned about managing their kit and movement?

Why have weapons of various sizes and choices to make when selecting your gear if we're just going to complain about the consequences?

Why have a sprint key if we're not even going to care about when to use it and when to jog?

The core of Arma's gameplay is about cause and effect. You make choices and they have consequences. If you're implying that your ability to shoot should be the most important thing in the game, you're playing the wrong game. Go play with a mod that disables stamina if you really want that. Before the stamina changes, you had no reason to not grab a scoped Zafir with a Titan launcher and 6 box magazines, sprinting all the way to your objective. That is boring as all hell, and reduces the gameplay dynamics to "bigger gun, better player".

[twisted 128]

Is very funny see like some arma 3 player is trying justify an exaggerated implementation.

Currently fatigue is so exaggerated that only ran 50m soldier practically can not shoot.

So the developers have already recognized that will "refine" the system.

If instead of following the "doubtful" example of other games would have made an implementation basing on human behavior we would have one of the best fatigue and sway system of the world.

Instead we have all the players more concerned about not getting tired players than shoot properly.

I personally do not think a single euro invest more in the game until I see the fatigue system and trigger properly implemented.

how the fuck am i justifying anything. take your prejucides soemwhere else, i was trying to help not defend.

Edited January 22, 2015 by twisted
calling him a cretin was an insult to people in Crete. Imbeciles as well so i'll leave them out too

[-Coulum- 35]

Is very funny see like some arma 3 player is trying justify an exaggerated implementation.

Currently fatigue is so exaggerated that only ran 50m soldier practically can not shoot.

Sway is sorta over the top when you pass the 60% fatigue point. But Up until that point I find it to be pretty well balanced. To be totally honest, the only exaggerations I see, are from people complaining that they dislike the system.

All of Twisted's points are valid and helpful. Fact is many people are able to play just fine by using similar guidelines. So maybe it is not so much the system that is flawed but the players' playstyle, or unrealistic expectations.

Instead we have all the players more concerned about not getting tired players than shoot properly.

Is that a bad thing? Arma is a thinking and planning game before a fast paced mouse handling competition. Personally, I like it that way.

All that being said, the system can be improved. Personally I would have sway cap out at around 60% fatigue, and make it so holding breath is much more limited and becomes less effective the more tired one is. That combined with the weapon resting coming in the marksman dlc will make for very reasonable system imo. Of course I am sure BI has their own vision of how things should be, and I am very excited to see what it is. Can't wait for the Marksman DLC!

[dnk 13]

I really want to see video from one person claiming it's unrealistic. In that video, the following:

The person

with a sidearm of choice

30kg of gear on

Runs 250 yards within 30 seconds.

Immediately stops and shoots a 50+/6 shots on the NRA 25 yard timed pistol shot target within 20sec of stopping.

Then I'll say, "you know what, you're right. I stand corrected."

Heck, I'll do that even if they're just not sucking wind at the end.

Heck, I'll do that if they can just finish the 250 yards in 30 seconds.

Heck, I might just do that just if they make the video, just for putting in the effort to prove me wrong, even if they fail.

[alsanjuro 20]

Ok, I just gave A3 a nice amount of playing and I fckin hate weapon sway!

Like I play military simulations and that's how much I exercise, but this new fatigue system made fat little boys out of soldiers and even I could easily outrun them.

I mean, even I, with my condition, can run more then them without swinging the gun all over the place and not being able at least walk fast.

For example simple mission - Pandur will drop my team near the village, we clear the village and on the other side, Pandur will pick us up. But I almost can't get half way through the village without swinging my weapon like a broom and slowly walking around, because my super skilled sf operator is out of his breath. And it's a small village in Chernarus.

I can only imagine how bad it would be, if A2 used this fatigue system. I mean, force recon would never make it in time, assaulting the city would be entirely impossible.

Just move the slider to give soldier more stamina, or maybe just make the weapon sway less, because I don't know, it's really weird when my soldier just moves her hands like slowmo parkinson degenerate.

Maybe the dev team should take a gun, some gear and start running around, then try to hold rifle straight. It's not that hard, yes? You don't swing your arms like you waving the flag.

Please, do something. I don't want to use enableFatigue, I just want to be able to do soldier stuff without being little tired baby.

Thanks to the modding community here is something that can help. I use these two mods first is a sway fix which lowers the exaggerated sway and inertia http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26266 and second is AGM http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=25779 which will give you a whole lot of other things like improved fatigue system, weapon resting, medical, mag repack all which are modular which means you can remove medical system if you prefer arma 3 vanilla. I hope this helps. There are always two sides to this people who love the system the way it is and ones who hate it. So i found a solution to my problem which i dont like the way system is so i use these mods and am happy but i am sure someone will always make a tell you off about how much gear you carry just ignore it and use these mods and let me know how you go.

[Tonci87 163]

I really want to see video from one person claiming it's unrealistic. In that video, the following:

The person

with a sidearm of choice

30kg of gear on

Runs 250 yards within 30 seconds.

Immediately stops and shoots a 50+/6 shots on the NRA 25 yard timed pistol shot target within 20sec of stopping.

Then I'll say, "you know what, you're right. I stand corrected."

Heck, I'll do that even if they're just not sucking wind at the end.

Heck, I'll do that if they can just finish the 250 yards in 30 seconds.

Heck, I might just do that just if they make the video, just for putting in the effort to prove me wrong, even if they fail.

This!

[dsiOne 10]

I really want to see video from one person claiming it's unrealistic. In that video, the following:

The person

with a sidearm of choice

30kg of gear on

Runs 250 yards within 30 seconds.

Immediately stops and shoots a 50+/6 shots on the NRA 25 yard timed pistol shot target within 20sec of stopping.

Then I'll say, "you know what, you're right. I stand corrected."

Heck, I'll do that even if they're just not sucking wind at the end.

Heck, I'll do that if they can just finish the 250 yards in 30 seconds.

Heck, I might just do that just if they make the video, just for putting in the effort to prove me wrong, even if they fail.

Just quoting for truth here. If you don't want a sim, why would you play a sim?

[oggoeg 3]

Just quoting for truth here. If you don't want a sim, why would you play a sim?

Arma 3 is a simulator? :D Bwahahhahaha

[djotacon 190]

Unfortunately this type of complaints are siempe drowned in the forums. Unlike in other parts of the community is obsessed with the fact that the game should be getting more and more difficult in an obsessive search for realism.

The funny thing is that most of the mods based on realism have all kinds of mechanisms to improve marksmanship base game and are using those same units of realism.

Something must be deeply wrong for the community is attacking anyone who complains about exaggerations in the game and then use changes largely solve these exaggerations.

Edited January 23, 2015 by djotacon

[vegeta897 13]

Unlike in other parts of the community is obsessed with the fact that the game should be getting more and more difficult in an obsessive search for realism.

Nothing in my post has to do with realism. It's about interesting gameplay, pure and simple. I couldn't care less about how realistic it is. I don't want a boring game where the biggest weapon is always the best choice, and the choice to sprint is always correct. If I can get tired in the game and my gear has weight, I want that to actually mean something for the gameplay. If the game has small calibre weapons, I want them to actually have a use, a set of pros that the big machine guns don't have. Can you seriously not see how this point of view is entirely focused on improving and diversifying the gameplay, not about realism?

Maybe you should try reading my post again without the preconceived notion that anyone in support of the current state of the game only cares about realism. Arma 3 has never had the ultimate goal of realism.

Edited January 23, 2015 by vegeta897

[gibonez 18]

Arma 3 is a simulator? :D Bwahahhahaha

What is it then an arena shooter ? Arma 3 is marketed as a mil sim and slowly but surely its adding the features to make it one.