vilas 473 Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) To be honest I think we should stop at USSR border in 40's and leave others to deal with Hitler alone. you forget about fact that it was USSR who invaded Poland in 1939 1st of September Hitler attacked 17th (2 weeks later) Stalin attacked, Hitler attacked USSR in 1941, from 1939 to 1941 USSR was occupant , for those 2 years a lot of Poles were killed or imprisoned in Syberia (daughter of my grandfathers brothers /aunt?? was born in 1940 in Syberia cause her parents were taken to prison as forced workers in Syberia , cause my family is from Grodno, people from my family were imprisoned and were forced-workers/slaves in Syberia taken there in October 1939, cause they were railway personell so they survived, if they were police, they would be killed in Katyn, my family returned to Poland after this slavery in 1958 after death of Polish Stalin - Boleslav Bierut) also you forget (or maybe you not know) about (apart from Katyn) that when Poland had uprising in 1944 (and some time before) British planes with support were forbidden to land on Soviet territory to refuel, so Brits couldn't help Polish guerillas because Stalin forbid them to land to refuel, because of this my city during uprising had no ammunition and weapons - it was because Stalin ordered Brits to go away Edited March 4, 2014 by vilas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted March 4, 2014 ?!!!PMC in CRIMEA!!!? I was reading Polska Zbrojna which is a opinion center/ analysis for military topics. Editor, a former GROM operator mentions about security company that is used to protect oil and gas installation. Here's a translated version of entry http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpolska-zbrojna.pl%2Fhome%2Farticleshow%2F11695%3Ft%3DPrywatna-armia-na-Krymie Just google Vnevedomstvenaya Okhrana http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/exclusive-russian-blackwater-takes-over-ukraine-airport.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted March 4, 2014 @Spooky, please show me evidence of a BTR that has been pierced by something. At no point did I see anyone with an AT launcher, or a high caliber rifle. What I did see was a BTR that tried to drive head first into the barricades and got showered in molotovs (and he deserved it for trying to run over people) https://news.pn/photo/ed045694b0a6a72711d249da53fee841.i370x246x372.webp (132 kB) https://news.pn/photo/e1093ac8ac9f7dc559deb868bbc004bb.i370x246x372.webp (115 kB) https://news.pn/photo/c84d38d4c3913d068f095287465047a8.i370x246x372.webp (110 kB) https://news.pn/photo/b348328cfb55f03dff9601b2ccde0ea7.i370x277x381.webp (147 kB) https://news.pn/photo/ae460eac84496beaccca04f5c67893bf.i370x277x381.webp (129 kB) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) To be honest I think we should stop at USSR border in 40's and leave others to deal with Hitler alone. I don't think that Polish and all the other countries would like to be invaded again. BTW that Russia returns the territories that they stole from Finland in 1939 would be also cool. https://news.pn/photo/ed045694b0a6a72711d249da53fee841.i370x246x372.webp (132 kB) https://news.pn/photo/e1093ac8ac9f7dc559deb868bbc004bb.i370x246x372.webp (115 kB) https://news.pn/photo/c84d38d4c3913d068f095287465047a8.i370x246x372.webp (110 kB) https://news.pn/photo/b348328cfb55f03dff9601b2ccde0ea7.i370x277x381.webp (147 kB) https://news.pn/photo/ae460eac84496beaccca04f5c67893bf.i370x277x381.webp (129 kB) That photos could perfectly show 9mm holes ( that can be obtained by civilians and police ), not military ammunition. Edited March 4, 2014 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 473 Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I don't think that Polish and all the other countries would like to be invaded again.BTW that Russia returns the territories that they stole from Finland in 1939 would be also cool. 1st of September Hitler attacked 17th (2 weeks later) Stalin attacked, Hitler attacked USSR in 1941, from 1939 to 1941 USSR was occupant , for those 2 years a lot of Poles were killed or imprisoned in Syberia (daughter of my grandfathers brothers /aunt?? was born in 1940 in Syberia cause her parents were taken to prison as forced workers in Syberia , cause my family is from Grodno, people from my family were imprisoned and were forced-workers/slaves in Syberia taken there in October 1939, cause they were railway personell so they survived, if they were police, they would be killed in Katyn, my family returned to Poland after this slavery in 1958 after death of Polish Stalin - Boleslav Bierut) when Poland had uprising in 1944 (and some time before) British planes with support were forbidden to land on Soviet territory to refuel, so Brits couldn't help Polish guerillas because Stalin forbid them to land to refuel, because of this my city during uprising had no ammunition and weapons - it was because Stalin ordered Brits to go away, all what belonged to my father family of family of my mother from centuries is now on border of Lithuania and Belarus, in year 1700 it was Poland, in year 1939 it was Poland, now it is borderline between Lithuania and Belarus, so we lost not as low as Finland, we lost ca. 30% of our territory, USSR took half of our territory and gave us... German land, and Germans had to run away from their homes, Edited March 4, 2014 by vilas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted March 4, 2014 so we lost not as low as Finland, we lost ca. 30% of our territory, USSR took half of our territory and gave us... German land, and Germans had to run away from their homes, I haven't said that you lost "as low" as anyone. That's not a contest. If you read my previous post it says that I don't think that any of the countries that were invaded by Russia ( Soviet Union ) would like to be re-invaded to reach the same borders as in 1940. And I also pointed that the return of the Finnish stolen territories would also be cool. ------- US may have done a lot of imperialistic wars for their interests, but they don't keep the territories ( in fact nowadays even Afghanistan and Irak are quite unfriendly with the US ). On the other hand Russia still keeps all the territories that have invaded in the past century. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 473 Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I haven't said that you lost "as low" as anyone. That's not a contest. sorry, it is due to my not-native English and hurry , you know, in emotions in not native langauage sometimes i have problems (worst problems are "pathetic" , in Polish "patetyczny" mean "great, super, monumental", once upon a time i told about one guy screeshots "pathetic" and i was not understanding why he is so angry on me cause i said "your screenshots are monumental" ;) ) Polish-Russian language also has lots of false-friends words like kravat - in Polish tie , in Russian sofa divan - in Polish carpet, in Russian other kind of sofa ? kawior - in PL cavior , in RU carpet so i meant that you can imagine our losses due to USSR (and 1944-1956 terror which mostly was focused on patriotic people and WW2 guerillas who fought with Hitler, so first guys fought Hitler, than they were killed by Stalin administration (not by Russians directly cause Stalin was multi-culti as we would say today) but after war, for being Catholics, for being patriots and not commies etc. for being in AK "home army" our guerilla army which was right-wing ) which makes for us this Ukrainian situation even harder, from one side USSR kicked us, from other side UPA , a lot of voices in PL internet say to let them all boil together cause we should not touch such conflict among our 2 previous "enemies" , so it is for Pole hard piece to choke Edited March 4, 2014 by vilas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted March 4, 2014 sorry, it is due to my not-native English and hurry , you know, in emotions in not native langauage sometimes i have problems Don't worry, I can speak 5 languages right now ( 3 of them fluently ) and I'm learning a couple more. And I make such mixtures that not even my mom can understand me :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted March 4, 2014 To be honest I think we should stop at USSR border in 40's and leave others to deal with Hitler alone.You may don't support Russia's 'invasion' of Crimea or may do - it's your business. You may see, I even admit the right for far-rights to exist, so pleas leave your 'democracy in danger!!!!1' fetish with yourself. P.S. Again someone's butthurt makes me laugh. Call me crazy, but I yet again advocate the '38 borders, i.e. the ones that existed before the beloved Soviet Union decided to take land from Finland and Poland. And you forget that the Soviet Union did leave everyone else to deal with Hitler alone, and even cooperated with him up until the point where they had no choice but to fight him due to being invaded. And yes, silly me for having a "fetish" for democracy. We all know that real men take what they want without regard to civilization, laws, etc. Like invading a country because the people ousted your puppet, and threatening to nick their land. Sound familiar? No, no butthurt. I think you misinterpreted my post. Imagine it being spoken in your head, with a dry, bored and very unenthusiastic voice. Possibly overflowing with sarcasm. The utter ridiculous farce that has been the Russian behaviour in Ukraine (and on these forums) since the start of this is just as tragic and pathetic as it is mind blowingly absurd, if not even comical, and ambiguous. An invasion of what is obviously Russian soldiers with armoured vehicles, helicopters, etc. being referred to as "self protection militias", and at the same time acknowledging the invasion. The dramatic nonsense about "NAZIS, NAZIS EVERYWHERE" being used as an excuse for an invasion, which may or may not happen, or has happened. The agreement that will see the Russian troops withdrawn, and maybe not because there are as of yet no Russian troops deployed outside their bases in the Crimea. Or maybe there are, the Russian government seems really confused about the whereabouts of its army. The incredible danger posed by the illegitimate government in Kiev, which is dangerous enough to invade, but not dangerous enough to invade. The outrage about the political compromise that was signed between opposition leaders and the president, despite not being signed by the Russian diplomat involved. In all, it could have made for a very good comedy movie, if it hadn't been for the fact that it'd either have to be simplified, or left as it is, in which case the comedic value would be overwhelmed by the "WTF, nothing makes sense"-value. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 473 Posted March 4, 2014 And I make such mixtures that not even my mom can understand me i seen official German government documents, in which they use English language and multiple numbers are end with -N, not -S so i seen German government sent to Polish government with "machinenen" instead of "machines" or "indicatoren" instead of "indicators" ;) ---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ---------- And you forget that the Soviet Union did leave everyone else to deal with Hitler alone, and even cooperated with him up until the point where they had no choice but to fight him due to being invaded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amra 10 Posted March 4, 2014 Yes, we all know that really, Russia is liberating us all from Nazism in another Great Patriotic War. But all of us who don't support Russia's invasion of Crimea really secretly support the Nazis, because democracy, and that's why Putin undermining what little democracy exists in Russia means that we're all really just inferior to you. Admit it, that's pretty much what you think about us, don't you? If you'll forgive me my honest opinion I personally think you're a good man. Good and naive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted March 4, 2014 https://news.pn/photo/ed045694b0a6a72711d249da53fee841.i370x246x372.webp (132 kB) https://news.pn/photo/e1093ac8ac9f7dc559deb868bbc004bb.i370x246x372.webp (115 kB) https://news.pn/photo/c84d38d4c3913d068f095287465047a8.i370x246x372.webp (110 kB) https://news.pn/photo/b348328cfb55f03dff9601b2ccde0ea7.i370x277x381.webp (147 kB) https://news.pn/photo/ae460eac84496beaccca04f5c67893bf.i370x277x381.webp (129 kB) Sorry but I won´t download images from a russian page that I don´t know. Don´t you have direct links? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I can tell you exactly what those pictures depict Tonci: Not even a single BTR. Not even in the background. All the pictures depict burnt out/abused trucks. Amra: Yes, that's all very good. I agree, not swallowing the Kremlin official version of events whole with hook, line and sinker like you, does indicate that I am very naïve. Edited March 4, 2014 by scrim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas 5 Posted March 4, 2014 Russia says it would retaliate for U.S. sanctions over Ukraine - Reuters Russia said on Tuesday that it would retaliate if the United States imposed sanctions over Moscow's actions in Ukraine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 473 Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) according to our press: - Russia tested TOPOL missile, - Russian hackers attacking multiple Polish websites + a lot of pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian comments about Ukrainian nazism written from Russian IP,, - Brits say that document that Reuters published is not full Brit gov. statement, so Brit gov. afraid of public opinion changes mind, - multiple arrests in Russia of people who protest against war and protest for peace, dozens arrested with for example week sentence, but so far you didn't comment my idea about why Ukraine is so important and idea about China and breadbasket theory that i found, cause really starting Cold War 2 because of Crimean small area sounds sensless, but looking at whole Ukraine as mass producer of food to China sounds reliable ? http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2636387&viewfull=1#post2636387 post number 555, is it possible what some independant media think ? Edited March 4, 2014 by vilas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted March 4, 2014 Seems that a Russian professor shares the opinions I expressed in this thread: Russian President Vladimir Putin's decision to deploy troops across the strategic Ukrainian region of Crimea has sparked an international outcry. Many Russians, too, are indignant. One of the most stinging attacks so far has come from Andrei Zubov, a noted political commentator who has compared Putin to Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
batto 17 Posted March 4, 2014 Some news: ICMB test http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26442381 Sanctions would destroy west http://news.yahoo.com/russia-warns-could-reduce-zero-economic-dependency-us-083926261.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted March 4, 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10676113/Russia-Today-host-who-criticised-Kremlin-sent-to-Crimea.html Russian state-funded TV presenter in anti-Kremlin tirade sent to Crimea to get a 'better understanding' of situation on the ground Smart woman turned this offer down, because in RUssia they like to give lessons to reporters who play against the rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delta Hawk 1829 Posted March 5, 2014 Now I'm curious too: what exactly Americans think about all that? The general opinion of the American population is it's not our fight. Americans have no great desire to see another decade of wounded and injured veterans returning from a conflict they don't understand, much less have their sons, daughters, husbands, wives .etc killed in some land they're lucking if they can find on the globe. If anything, Americans think we should handle this situation diplomatically. Just to clear something up because I'm extremely passionate about this, America didn't invade Iraq for oil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted March 5, 2014 One more opinion from the France. BTW I'm just laughing while seing hysteria "ZOMG Putin will order troops to invade Ukraine!!!!1". Again nobody read everything Putin had done is only asking Federation Council to approve possibility to use army in the case of any threat to Russian-speaking population. But many of you already waiting Russian army at the Polish border:D Easy, bros, we have more important things than concuring eastern Europe. There ar e several ways (much more effective and cheap) to do it without armed invasion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas 5 Posted March 5, 2014 Just to clear something up because I'm extremely passionate about this, America didn't invade Iraq for oil. Exactly. Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait for their oil. He had plans to invade Saudi Arabia as well, but the US intervened in Kuwait. Saddam had offered extremely cheap oil for as long as he was alive. Obviously if it was all about the oil, he'd still be alive and in control today, wouldn't he? ---------- Post added at 22:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:19 ---------- Again nobody read everything Putin had done is only asking Federation Council to approve possibility to use army in the case of any threat to Russian-speaking population. Russian speaking, but not of Russian nationality. Who's citizens are they? Ukraine's. Imagine if the US invaded any country in which there was rioting just to protect anyone that spoke English, but not citizens of the US. Sounds ridiculous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) BTW I'm just laughing while seing hysteria "ZOMG Putin will order troops to invade Ukraine!!!!1". Again nobody read everything Putin had done is only asking Federation Council to approve possibility to use army in the case of any threat to Russian-speaking population. Yeah! How could we think about Putin sending troops to Ukraine... That will never happen. That soldiers armed in Crimea ( which as now, is still Ukraine )surrounding Ukraine military bases and digging trenches with Russian fatigues, Russian weapons, Russian vehicles, speaking Russian, some of them anonymously recognizing being part of the Russian Army... But no... Russian soldiers would never invade anything... The fact that the parliament guaranteed a free pass to Putin, it's also some inside joke; all world's countries' parliaments do that every year for fun... :rolleyes: Also the past events in conflicts like Georgia, makes us think that Putin would never use Russian military against any other nation. Why should anyone worry? In my opinion are grossly exaggerating... Edited March 5, 2014 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
derk yall 0 Posted March 5, 2014 Ukrainian navy flagship Hetman Sahaidachny, crossed the Bosporus strait, still flying the ukrainian naval ensign and naval jack, contradicting russians claims that the ship defected: source: http://china.org.cn/world/2014-03/05/content_31675001.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas 5 Posted March 5, 2014 Russia drafts law to seize EU, U.S. assets in case of sanctions - Haaretz (Israeli News) Russian lawmakers are working on a draft law to allow the confiscation of property, assets and accounts of European or U.S. companies if sanctions are imposed on Russia over Ukraine, RIA news agency said on Wednesday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted March 5, 2014 Russia drafts law to seize EU, U.S. assets in case of sanctions - Haaretz (Israeli News)Russian lawmakers are working on a draft law to allow the confiscation of property, assets and accounts of European or U.S. companies if sanctions are imposed on Russia over Ukraine, RIA news agency said on Wednesday. Just an empty threat which can cost - loosing all trust and credibility, isolation. A few moves here, few moves there and their stock market will collapse and rubel will become flat. This is very powerful solution yet RUssia is a buffer country to other Asian countries and such economic movements may also destabilize them as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
