Ukraine General

[beastcat 14]

I don't know. I'm asking. :-))

You country have obvious problems with money. But you are buying tanks from a NATO country.

And the most interesting thing is that NATO country sells you those tanks.

Why?

You are basing your conspiracy theory (Can I call it that or is that considered offensive?) on the fact that it is a NATO country, but in reality this is nothing new. Again, the Ukrainian tank industry is mostly based on modernizing decommissioned tanks, that can be bought for cheap and later sold for a much higher price. Ukraine has been buying up old tanks from many countries, from NATO and non-NATO countries, yes, even Russia. Does that mean this is some conspiracy where Russia is arming Ukraine with high tech decomissioned tanks from 1967 that cant even drive or shoot? No. This has been going on since the beginning of Ukraine and even earlier, where especially the Morozov plant in Kharkov has been modernizing T-72 tanks for the Soviet Union.

And about the money question:

Yes, Ukraine has huge money problems, but its not a country that will put their soldiers into tin can death traps and send them to death, even if it means a war tax and even a default.

If you want to see what Ukrainian tanks look like, here you go:

T-84 Oplot (The T-84 is basically the ukrainian equivalent to the T-90)

T-64 Bulat (A more budget oriented tank, kinda like the russian T-72 variants)

Ukraine is not some african country that relies on ancient soviet tanks and it was one of the most important (if not THE most important) tank industry regions in the soviet union. So when it comes to tanks, were fine.

An image has to be less than 100kb or it will be showed as a link.

Thanks, that kinda makes sense.

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

And you know they're decomissioned how? And why would Ukraine buy them if thy're that crapy and can't be used?

Did you actually read what I wrote? They are modernized. The internals are replaced with new ones, a new engine, new targeting systems, new gun, the externals get reactive armor, spaced armor, armor plates and so on.

And wait, do you really think that a tank that is pretty much in its original 1973 form is still in active service? Just look at it.

Here is what the tank looks like in the end:

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/T72/t72mp/t72mp_02.jpg (189 kB)

As for news: Lyashko was punched in the face.

These trucks are reported to be in the russian Doetsk, that is directly on the border to the separatist territory;

Ukraine@War - Russians shelling cities and villages with heavy mortars

Edited August 14, 2014 by beastcat

[aleksadragutin 9]

I know they are to be modernized (probably), but the point is this: thy still are a deadly weapon, even if not working (temporarily).

[beastcat 14]

I know they are to be modernized (probably), but the point is this: thy still are a deadly weapon, even if not working (temporarily).

Yes, but so what? Why is it a problem now if it has been going on for 23 years? This is how the tank industry works in Ukraine.

[sudden 14]

Russians shelling cities and villages with heavy mortars

You are impossible!

D-30 gun that is shown on the video was retired from Russian Army a year ago.

I would ask you to stop posting fakes... but I know you won't stop.

You believe it's Russia, ok. So I leave you here with this video.

A guy from Shakhtersk batallion clearly speaks about Ukranian artillery shelling cities before they start sweeping.

Video is in Russian, sorry.

Edited August 14, 2014 by sudden

[beastcat 14]

You are impossible!

D-30 gun that is shown on the video was retired from Russian Army a year ago.

I would ask you to stop posting fakes... but I know you won't stop. So I leave you here with this video.

A guy from Shakhtersk batallion clearly speak about Ukranian artillery shelling cities before they start sweeping.

"Russians", not "Russian Army". Also this guy speaks about using artillery against areas where separatists are present, which is nothing new, not about randomly shelling civilian areas.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Yes, but so what? Why is it a problem now if it has been going on for 23 years? This is how the tank industry works in Ukraine.

War time exchange is different.

[beastcat 14]

War time exchange is different.

So because a country is at war, the tanks industry should just stop? Shouldn't it be the exact opposite?

Two helicopters accompanying the convoy, flying extremely low.

With humanitarian rockets of course.

BBC Live Text

BBC Russian reporter Juri Maloverjan has posted this photograph of the convoy of trucks parked 20km (12 miles) from town of Donetsk, on the Russian side of the border. The town is a long way from the Ukrainian city of Donetsk.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76942000/jpg/_76942365_trucks1.jpg

Edited August 14, 2014 by beastcat

[negah 26]

With humanitarian rockets of course.

I see no rockets on that heli. Do you?

And why has ukrainian government sent their aid convoy just now? Because evil russians did it and now the UA govt would look not that good?

[beastcat 14]

I see no rockets on that heli. Do you?

And why has ukrainian government sent their aid convoy just now? Because evil russians did it and now the UA govt would look not that good?

Well, I guess the pods are empty and just for show and to scare of people then.

Edit: Ok, I just looked at some more Mi-8 pictures and those are indeed empty fix points.

Why the aid was sent just now? Because the aid talks with both sides only succeded recently, with Russia suddenly pulling 300 trucks out of nowhere without any approval and Ukraine starting to prepare what they could.

Edited August 14, 2014 by beastcat

[mistyronin 1181]

Anyway even if that Mi8 had rockets in their pods, what would that change?

An armed Russian Army helicopter flying inside Russia. Thing would change a lot if that helicopter was flying inside Ukraine.

About what has been talked before, and as I already stated a few pages before. That Russians are involved in the conflict in Eastern Ukraine it's clear ( in fact most of the leaders at the beginning were Russian citizens ).

Does that mean that the Kremlin is involved? that's another debate. But what is crystal clear is that there is proof that Russian citizens are involved.

[JdB 151]

That Russians are involved in the conflict in Eastern Ukraine it's clear ( in fact most of the leaders at the beginning were Russian citizens ).

Does that mean that the Kremlin is involved? that's another debate. But what is crystal clear is that there is proof that Russian citizens are involved.

Many of those Russians are "former" KGB, FSB, OMON, GRU etc operatives specialized in "frozen conflicts" which in the former Soviet sattellite states past 1989 have all served the interests of the Kremlin. If they can't get a sattellite back under control they destabilize it to the point of being rendered disfunctional states with people longing back to the stability of the USSR.

[beastcat 14]

Anyway even if that Mi8 had rockets in their pods, what would that change?

It might make my joke at least a little bit funny.

Does that mean that the Kremlin is involved?

It would be weird if they didn't know about the masses of fighters, btrs and tanks crossing their borders with weapons taken from their military bases or the government recruitment agencies recruiting people to fight in Donetsk.

Anyway, the 142 military vehicles I mentioned earlier just took Marinyvka and Strelkov has been replaced by a guy known as "Tzar".

[aleksadragutin 9]

I couldn't find anything about 142 Russian vehicles. There is only a report that says militia took Marinovka.

[beastcat 14]

I couldn't find anything about 142 Russian vehicles. There is only a report that says militia took Marinovka.

The vehicles moved in from the south, the village is very very close to the border and was attacked from the south, meaning the separatist forces either came over completely over the border or were part of the vehicles before, that were heading in this direction under the cover of artillery from Russia. I cant confirm the exact number of vehicles though. Their forces are now moving up north taking back lost territory, trying to rejoin with the LNR. What is weird though is that Gubarev was on the scene, since he is resposible for the DPR, which is completely surrounded. Since Strelkov also resigned it must mean that the DPR leadership wasnt actually in Donetsk (Or at least left it when there was time). They probably gave up the DPR since it is completely cut off from Russia.

[mistyronin 1181]

---------- Post added at 19:24 ---------- Previous post was at 19:14 ----------

( Reuters ) Leading Ukraine separatist military commander Strelkov resigns

A leading separatist military leader in east Ukraine, Igor Strelkov, has resigned, the separatists' self-proclaimed Donetsk Republic said on its website.

It said Vladimir Kononov would replace Strelkov as the new military commander.

Strelkov's resignation was a third change at top of the rebel leadership of the past week.

[beastcat 14]

Bolotov, the head of the LPR just resigned as well. (He is russian as well)

[vilas 477]

Russian hackers hacked and attacked several Polish institutions websites demanding "removing Polish mercenaries from Novorussia"

[mistyronin 1181]

Bolotov, the head of the LPR just resigned as well. (He is russian as well)

So most of the leaders of Donetsk and Luhansk are resigning, and what they have in common is that they are Russian citizens, curious.

[vilas 477]

website of Polish president also hacked by Russians

[beastcat 14]

Russian hackers hacked and attacked several Polish institutions websites demanding "removing Polish mercenaries from Novorussia"

Maybe Poland should release the chupakabra as well? While we are at it, Poland should release the location of the reptillian illuminati nazi jews who are bombing peaceful separatists.

[sudayev 27]

Today in Crimea. Wladimir Putin have announced that Russia may withdraw from international conventions and European Court of Human Rights.

[Colossus 2]

Someone in command is really thickheaded bombarding targets in the middle of a residential area, aren't they? Rebel held or not.

( Reuters ) Leading Ukraine separatist military commander Strelkov resigns

Bolotov, the head of the LPR just resigned as well. (He is russian as well)

Is someone getting cold feets? I suppose they will be fleeing the country now, leaving the rest to fend for themselves, now that they have resigned.

[maturin 12]

If Strelkov is really gone, it is BIG news. He's the subject of burgeoning personality cult inside Russia, and the "most revered" figure of the rebellion.

Russia could conceivably be trying to localize the leadership, as Putin looks for a way to reach an accommodation with Ukraine. Otherwise, he is left with the equally disastrous choices of invasion or the separatists' military defeat.

[beastcat 14]

If Strelkov is really gone, it is BIG news. He's the subject of burgeoning personality cult inside Russia, and the "most revered" figure of the rebellion.

Russia could conceivably be trying to localize the leadership, as Putin looks for a way to reach an accommodation with Ukraine. Otherwise, he is left with the equally disastrous choices of invasion or the separatists' military defeat.

No idea about Strelkov, but Borodai definitely resigned in favor of a local criminal who was head of some radical pro-russian slavic-masterrace group.

Strelkov may have resigned, because he is wounded, but the replacement will probably be local as well.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Maybe Poland should release the chupakabra as well? While we are at it, Poland should release the location of the reptillian illuminati nazi jews who are bombing peaceful separatists.

That is the kind of comment someone might find offensive.