Ukraine General

[beastcat 14]

They are BMDs ( it's the airborne version of a BMP, share the same turret, but with an aluminium hull to make them able to airdrop ).

Thanks for the info!

The humanitarian trucks continue to be almost empty

http://youtu.be/FbIzPawtVfE

[vilas 473]

I dont exactly know what the second thing is though

BUK system contains not only missile launcher, but also logistic vehicles:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Buk-M1-2_air_defence_system_in_2010.jpg

If anyone knows what those are, please tell.

as said before BMD family (models are looking similar, difference is in armament , canon etc)

Edited August 15, 2014 by vilas

[beastcat 14]

BUK system contains not only missile launcher, but also logistic vehicles

So its basically the same Buk? Well, this sucks either way, because planes are basically the only advantage the army has over the separatists.

[sudayev 27]

Thanks for the info!

The humanitarian trucks continue to be almost empty

http://youtu.be/FbIzPawtVfE

Just like I assumed here http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2752607&viewfull=1#post2752607

These trucks were next to empty... Whoever thought this was a real aid convoy is a naive fool. This convoys is simply a trojan horse and "russian aid" mission is HERE to STAY.

[negah 26]

Just like I assumed here http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2752607&viewfull=1#post2752607

These trucks were next to empty... Whoever thought this was a real aid convoy is a naive fool. This convoys is simply a trojan horse and "russian aid" mission is HERE to STAY.

Im not a logistics expert, but my guess is that a truck with half load can move faster and with less fuel consuption than a fully loaded truck.

I dont know, maybe 300 trucks with half load are faster and cheaper than 150 fully loaded trucks. Or it was just to make it look bigger.

These trucks are right now checked by the ukrainian border troops and taken over by the Red Cross (http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/5237294/heftige-gefechte-fordern-viele-tote.html).

So these humanitarian aid is there unlike the aid from the ukrainian government (we have seen some photos of some trucks, nothing more, where is it and when will it arrive) who were denying that there was a humanitarian crisis in eastern Ukraine until the russians have sent their convoy. I admit it might be a troyan horse move (dont compare it to Georgia 2008 though, even the NATO governments have admitted that it was georgian army who started shelling residential areas in South Ossetia first) but for now its the only help that the people in eastern Ukraine will see. But yeah as long as it comes from Russia its evil even if it helps people, but everyone should praise the ukrainian government who either dont do shit or fuck everything up.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Half empty trucks are indeed puzzling. Any logic would be to load them to their maximum, as it's done for any other trucks.

[beastcat 14]

Im not a logistics expert, but my guess is that a truck with half load can move faster and with less fuel consuption than a fully loaded truck.

I dont know, maybe 300 trucks with half load are faster and cheaper than 150 fully loaded trucks. Or it was just to make it look bigger.

Why use these gigantic trailers with military trucks then? There is a reason why trailers are being fully loaded, because otherwise you are just transporting air. This is basically as if they would send 100 trucks and 200 empty ones.

So these humanitarian aid is there unlike the aid from the ukrainian government (we have seen some photos of some trucks, nothing more, where is it and when will it arrive) who were denying that there was a humanitarian crisis in eastern Ukraine until the russians have sent their convoy.

Until the russians have sent their convoy? They sent out their convoy after the same talks that russia did, only with the approval of the red cross.

The humanitarian aid is there? Yeah, great, empty trucks standing around at the border, totally there. Unlike the aid from the ukrainian government? The ukrainian government has unloaded more than 20 trucks already under the watch of the red cross at the destination. Also the ukrainian government has been sending humanitarian aid to liberated cities all the time, even Vice News have made an episode about it. Yes, not every village there is, but what do you expect? Ukraine is poor as crap.

[mistyronin 1181]

Im not a logistics expert, but my guess is that a truck with half load can move faster and with less fuel consuption than a fully loaded truck.

I dont know, maybe 300 trucks with half load are faster and cheaper than 150 fully loaded trucks. Or it was just to make it look bigger.

I'm not a logistics expert, but I have a few knowledge of semi-trucks.

The cheaper way would be to have fully loaded trucks, as just to start each truck you are burning a lot of fuel. With a half-loaded truck you could indeed go faster, but at least in Europe trucks are mechanically limited to 90km/h, so it would make no difference.

The only point would be to look bigger for propaganda reasons ( same way why these truck drivers wear a tan uniform ) or they meant to fill them with something else later.

[Tonci87 163]

I guess it is only for propaganda reasons. Russia can honestly claim that they send 300 trucks on their news (wich would really be a lot if they were full), nobody in Russia will ask how full they are because the notion of almost empty trucks is so absurd.....

[aleksadragutin 9]

I guess it is only for propaganda reasons. Russia can honestly claim that they send 300 trucks on their news (wich would really be a lot if they were full), nobody in Russia will ask how full they are because the notion of almost empty trucks is so absurd.....

But they said 2000 tons, so why would they need so many trucks for propaganda if the weight is already mentioned.

[Tonci87 163]

But they said 2000 tons, so why would they need so many trucks for propaganda if the weight is already mentioned.

Does the average Russian know how many tons a truck can carry? Does he bother to do the math? I would really like to know how russian news report about the convoy. Do they focus on the number of trucks instead of the actuall mass transported?

[surpher 1]

(The Guardian) Russia denies military vehicles entered Ukraine

But the security service stressed that the unit operated exclusively on Russian territory. “In this regard, information on crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border, a group of Russian soldiers is not true,†RIA Novosti quoted an official as saying.

(BBC) Ukraine border guards to inspect Russian aid convoy

The ICRC's Head of Operations for Europe and Central Asia, Laurent Corbaz, said: "The agreement... foresees that the trucks will be checked by the customs officers of Ukraine on Russian territory and then be allowed inside Ukraine with ICRC people accompanying the convoy and then unload somewhere in Luhansk and go back to Russia, empty."

(BBC) Rosneft requests $42bn loan from Russian government

Russia's state-controlled energy giant Rosneft has asked the Russian government for a $42bn (£25.2bn) loan, as it feels the impact of Western sanctions.

(DW) Serbian mercenaries fighting in eastern Ukraine

According to the pro-Russian separatist "People's Militia" in the self-proclaimed region of "New Russia" in eastern Ukraine, Serb volunteers fended off an offensive by the Ukrainian army near Luhansk.

Ninety-nine percent of the Serbian fighters in Ukraine are mercenaries, Serbian Prime Minister Aleksandar Vucic told reporters in Belgrade. Several dozen are fighting on the side of the separatists, Vucic said, adding that several dozen are also fighting for the Ukrainian army.

Edited August 15, 2014 by surpher

[mistyronin 1181]

But they said 2000 tons, so why would they need so many trucks for propaganda if the weight is already mentioned.

A commercial semi-truck usually carries from 15-20 tons. So to carry 2000 tons they should need about 100-150 semi-trucks.

But some of the stuff they say they are delivering like sleeping bags take a lot of space and don't weight much.

So it's hard to believe that there are really 2000 tons there.

Anyway the point is that more and bigger trucks even if half empty look like if they were carrying way more than they do.

[maturin 12]

DW RU - Lithuanian FM: 70 military vehicles entered Ukraine from the Russia

Here are some of the new tanks the terrorists have gotten through the new "window" to Russia

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvEXr6qCIAAPKor.jpg

And here is a new Buk at the border heading into Ukraine

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvEZE_BCEAAAHN0.jpg

I dont exactly know what the second thing is though

No freaking way is Russia openly sending Buks (with logistical vehicles too) to Ukraine. That would be on the front page of BBC right now. Those are probably just pictures of Russian vehicles maneuvering inside Russia.

If not, why are we hearing about this from the Latvian foreign minister?

The empty trucks aren't that surprising. The convoy was probably a military operation from the start, cooked up by the bloodthirsty secret service spooks that are the only people left in the Russian executive branch of government.

They could have turned to society for help organizing humanitarian aid, but ordinary citizens can't be trusted to take part in the Kremlin's projects. I mean, fuck, you can't involve people who actually care about innocent civilians in Donbas.

[mistyronin 1181]

From BBC journalist Twitter Steve Rosenberg:

Convoy of dozens of Russian military vehicles moving in direction of border, just outside Russian town of Donetsk

Picked a lorry. They opened it up. What was inside? Drinking water. Also saw condensed milk & buckwheat.

BTW the Russian BUK systems that he photographed seem to be close to the border ( Kamensk-Shakhtinsky ) but have not passed to Ukraine.

And about the BMDs you published the photos before:

A dozen of these have just passed by us in the direction of the border. Cannot confirm that is where they're heading.

[surpher 1]

No freaking way is Russia openly sending Buks (with logistical vehicles too) to Ukraine. That would be on the front page of BBC right now. Those are probably just pictures of Russian vehicles maneuvering inside Russia..

This is the location of the Buks

[mistyronin 1181]

From Courtney Weaver from the Financial Times Twitter, about half-empty trucks:

Got to check out more convoy trucks this morning. A lot of them mostly empty like this one

Here is another mostly empty one. Rus emergency services said they wanted reserve trucks if some break down Seems more like the trucks were hastily packed/ not enough time for all to be filled completely

There could be a couple or so half-empty, but not that many.

[beastcat 14]

No freaking way is Russia openly sending Buks (with logistical vehicles too) to Ukraine. That would be on the front page of BBC right now. Those are probably just pictures of Russian vehicles maneuvering inside Russia.

No freaking way? This is nothing new, we had photos of Buks being transported from Russia into Ukraine and back before, we have satellite images and so on. Also if you had read the little text, you would know that this picture was taken in Russia, very close to the border. Of course its not 100% proof, but unless they suddenly turned around at the border and became invisible, they went to Ukraine.

Oh and about the BBC thing, this may actually be one of the pictures their reporters took, but I'm not sure. Also the groups of APCs are also crossing the border without giving a crap about journalists, so yeah.

[mistyronin 1181]

Oh and about the BBC thing, this may actually be one of the pictures their reporters took, but I'm not sure. Also the groups of APCs are also crossing the border without giving a crap about journalists, so yeah.

As I said before the BBC journalist said that the photos he took of the BMDs were close to the border, BUT that he didn't know where they went. So could be stopped just in the border.

They are also seeing a lot of BTRs with the MC peacekeeper sign close to the border. But again, inside Russia.

Although I'm not sure if they are an invading force, just check this BTR ( look at the wheels ):

[beastcat 14]

As I said before the BBC journalist said that the photos he took of the BMDs were close to the border, BUT that he didn't know where they went. So could be stopped just in the border.

They are also seeing a lot of BTRs with the MC peacekeeper sign close to the border. But again, inside Russia.

Although I'm not sure if they are an invading force, just check this BTR ( look at the wheels ):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvFYyeKIMAIqz1o.jpg

Well, yeah, all of the photos were made inside russia, but again, unless they simply just vaporize at the border, there is only one possibility.

Their bases are a bit further back.

---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:39 ----------

Some more ukrainian trucks ariving. Not as fancy as the russian ones. While there are not that many possibilities to look at the contents, they do look much more full. One thing Im wondering though, how do they prevent everything to fly around inside the truck when its moving. The things don't look really fixed.

[mistyronin 1181]

Well, yeah, all of the photos were made inside russia, but again, unless they simply just vaporize at the border, there is only one possibility.

Or they could have forward positions close to the border.

I really doubt that the Russian Army would be sending any military vehicles in the border while the journalist are in front.

On the other hand the BMD silhouette is really characteristic. And to this moment the pro-Russians have only used the three BMDs captured the first days.

[beastcat 14]

Or they could have forward positions close to the border.

I really doubt that the Russian Army would be sending any military vehicles in the border while the journalist are in front.

On the other hand the BMD silhouette is really characteristic. And to this moment the pro-Russians have only used the three BMDs captured the first days.

Didn't they do exactly that yesterday?

Ukrainskaya Pravda - Poroshenko: Part of the russian military vehicles that crossed the border last night has been destroyed

Also, what happened to the trucks at the Lugansk border? Are they still there or did they go to Kharkov?

Edited August 15, 2014 by beastcat

[maturin 12]

No freaking way? This is nothing new, we had photos of Buks being transported from Russia into Ukraine and back before, we have satellite images and so on. Also if you had read the little text, you would know that this picture was taken in Russia, very close to the border. Of course its not 100% proof, but unless they suddenly turned around at the border and became invisible, they went to Ukraine.

Oh and about the BBC thing, this may actually be one of the pictures their reporters took, but I'm not sure. Also the groups of APCs are also crossing the border without giving a crap about journalists, so yeah.

We had incriminating photos of Buks inside Ukraine and inside Russia, not all of them completely proven. And nothing solid about transit. Remember that the SBU lies as much as RT, and probably even more. I've never seen any satellite images worth a damn, besides the grainy footage of grad batteries. Giving (more) Buks to the rebels after MH17 would be like begging for more sanctions, and a pointless provocation.

Yes, obviously Russia is transferring equipment, but the mere presence of that equipment on their side of the border is not incriminating. They have a 40,000-man army there! The equipment doesn't just vanish; the journalists just go have coffee. And notice that they weren't able to take any pictures or video, nor did anyone track the vehicles afterwards. The border region is so featureless that I don't particularly trust journalists to know where it is. Russian APCs have pulled a number of stunts already, rushing border posts and pulling back at the last minute. Please try to exercise some healthy skepticism. Having a pro-Ukrainian Spooky Lynx is just as irritating.

Edited August 15, 2014 by maturin

[StronkGoat 10]

We had incriminating photos of Buks inside Ukraine and inside Russia, not all of them completely proven. And nothing solid about transit. Remember that the SBU lies as much as RT, and probably even more. I've never seen any satellite images worth a damn, besides the grainy footage of grad batteries. Giving (more) Buks to the rebels after MH17 would be like begging for more sanctions, and a pointless provocation.

Yes, obviously Russia is transferring equipment, but the mere presence of that equipment on their side of the border is not incriminating. They have a 40,000-man army there! The equipment doesn't just vanish; the journalists just go have coffee. And notice that they weren't able to take any pictures or video, nor did anyone track the vehicles afterwards. The border region is so featureless that I don't particularly trust journalists to know where it is. Russian APCs have pulled a number of stunts already, rushing border posts and pulling back at the last minute. Please try to exercise some healthy skepticism. Having a pro-Ukrainian Spooky Lynx is just as irritating.

I like you.

Id like to see more and more skepticism of "evidence" on the internet..

I keep seeing people blindly accepting silly accusations from both sides as the truth

Both sides are really messed up...

Remember the sarin gas stuff?

Remember when Russia accused the US of having US troops in Georgia fighting?

Nothing but a blame game both sides play...There is no point in finding out which side is "right", because no matter what you will just be disappointed in the end.

[beastcat 14]

We had incriminating photos of Buks inside Ukraine and inside Russia, not all of them completely proven. And nothing solid about transit. Remember that the SBU lies as much as RT, and probably even more. I've never seen any satellite images worth a damn, besides the grainy footage of grad batteries. Giving (more) Buks to the rebels after MH17 would be like begging for more sanctions, and a pointless provocation.

Yes, obviously Russia is transferring equipment, but the mere presence of that equipment on their side of the border is not incriminating. They have a 40,000-man army there! The equipment doesn't just vanish; the journalists just go have coffee. And notice that they weren't able to take any pictures or video, nor did anyone track the vehicles afterwards. The border region is so featureless that I don't particularly trust journalists to know where it is. Russian APCs have pulled a number of stunts already, rushing border posts and pulling back at the last minute. Please try to exercise some healthy skepticism. Having a pro-Ukrainian Spooky Lynx is just as irritating.

Well yes, as I said, the photos are of course not 100% proof, you can take it as you want.

Here the sign says "customs control zone" or however its called in english, so it has to be pretty much next to the border.

Here we see a building with a blue roof.

Here we have multiple buildings with blue roofs next to the border: 48°17'37.56"С 39°54'51.25"В

The buildings are on the left, so they must be heading to the border.

Of course they may just park on the parking space, but that would be strange.

Of course I may be completely wrong, but yeah, thats still kinda the most likely thing.

The location of the Buk vans has been posted by surpher.

It is of course not 100% proof, they can just stop a meter before the border and we wont be able to say anything, but for me the intentions are pretty clear.

Right now pictures exist of the peacekeeper BTRs that were supposedly taken on ukrainian territory next to the border, but those are not confirmed, so Ill keep a look on that.

The white russian trucks moving in the direction of Rostov.

Edited August 15, 2014 by beastcat
Nvm, I got confused with Google Earth