Ukraine General

[ProfTournesol 956]

I'm still puzzled by what is the UN made for...certainly not better than the pre WW2 League of Nations

[mistyronin 1181]

I'm still puzzled by what is the UN made for...certainly not better than the pre WW2 League of Nations

It's a bit like the EU parliament & institutions. Some kind of "geriatric" for old politicians, where they can still take selfies of themselves with presidents and earn a nice salary. While the most powerful countries take the important decisions.

BTW on the ground level they have a really nice workforce though, people who work hard to improve the world building refugee camps, providing basic services, etc.

Concluding, at this moment the UN is only a really well funded NGO, ruled by old glories.

[beastcat 14]

Zerkalo Nedeli - A russian team has been banned from participating in an airshow in Switzerland

[maturin 12]

And according to this thingy here, the trucks are heading to the Rostov Oblast, meaning that if they will move to Ukraine from there, they will pass the border that is under control of the separatists. That basically means Ukraine can't stop them.

Not true.

Check Google Maps before you believe every tweet.

From Rostov you can get to Ukrainian-controlled checkpoints at Uspenskaya and the Mariupol road, and that's just off the top of my head. Neither of those are the best choice, of course. It'll probably go to Kharkov.

[beastcat 14]

Not true.

Check Google Maps before you believe every tweet.

From Rostov you can get to Ukrainian-controlled checkpoints at Uspenskaya and the Mariupol road, and that's just off the top of my head. Neither of those are the best choice, of course. It'll probably go to Kharkov.

Did you miss the "according to"? Also, please tell me how they are supposed to get to Kharkov from Rostov if they came from the Moscow Oblast?

Please, explain how this makes sense:

http://puu.sh/aPCnD/0041ea75b8.jpg (190 kB)

And does anyone have any clues on what kind of humanitarian aid this might be:

[Maio 293]

And does anyone have any clues on what kind of humanitarian aid this might be:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu2ocCzCUAA6g-p.jpg

Maybe some of the boxes got displaced due to vibrations?

[batto 17]

Why would Russia send weapons when it'll win hearths of locals by pure humanitarian aid?

It's checkmate for UA government:

a) deny the trucks to enter over weapons fears => locals will like Russia more

b) allow the trucks to deliver aid => locals will like Russia more

I think people trapped in there don't give a damn about your geopolitic fears. UA should've sent aid sooner (or EU or whoever is interested in influence there).

Edited August 12, 2014 by batto

[beastcat 14]

Why would Russia send weapons when it'll win hearths of locals by pure humanitarian aid?

It's checkmate for UA government:

a) deny the trucks to enter over weapons fears => locals will like Russia more

b) allow the trucks to deliver aid => locals will like Russia more

I think people trapped in there don't give a damn about your geopolitic fears. UA should've sent aid sooner (or EU or whoever is interested in influence there).

While this does kinda make sense, whats the point? People liking Russia won't magically change the borders and the support for the separatists is so low, it won't make any significant difference manpower-wise, not mentioning the extreme international distrust.

[batto 17]

the support for the separatists is so low, it won't make any significant difference manpower-wise

Maybe it will change.

[beastcat 14]

Maybe it will change.

I highly doubt that. In Russia maybe, but in Ukraine the people are tired of war that most people never wanted and some don't even understand. Why risk your life for some utopian communist dictatorship ruled by war criminals that came from another country and drag on the war and suffering for even longer?

[batto 17]

Why risk your life for some utopian communist dictatorship ruled by war criminals that came from another country and drag on the war and suffering for even longer?

I don't think people in there think about Russia like you do (see Crimea). You gotta be realist no matter what your idelogoy is...

[surpher 1]

The convoy is said to be staying in Voronezh overnight.

Location of video and beastcat's pic

[spooky lynx 73]

Holy craep... Counter-sanctions are put just couple of days ago but Telegraph is already writing about neo-nazi brigade fighting separatists:D I'm surprised very much!

P.S. Azov and other similar 'batallions' in fact don't even have real batallion strength so calling them 'brigades' is a little bit way over.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[beastcat 14]

I don't think people in there think about Russia like you do (see Crimea). You gotta be realist no matter what your idelogoy is...

Polls suggested that only ~4% supported the separatists in the beginning of the conflict (The separatists, not the idea of joining Russia), and considering local support is shrinking it should be lower than that now. And how many people in Crimea supported Russia is also unknown. The only thing certain is that it definitely wasn't 97%. And keeping interviews of people and what people I know said, its more of a traditional russian "we support who gives stability and safety" situation and people just want everything to return to what it used to be.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:49 ----------

http://youtu.be/a8w1gwm7EzU

Zhirinovsky saying that the US and NATO don't have control over whether WW3 will start or not. He says this choice is completely up to Putin and that Russia would wipe the Baltic States and Poland of the face of the earth.

Yes, people argue Zhirinovsky is insane, but sadly many of the things he said russia would do actually happened.

He also has 50+ seats in the duma. For those who don't know, he is the head of the "Liberal" "Democratic" Party of Russia.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Well he does sound a bit crazy, and he uses really strong words, but that's a general trait of all political analytics.

[spooky lynx 73]

He says this choice is completely up to Putin and that Russia would wipe the Baltic States and Poland of the face of the earth.

In fact he says that in case of WW3 start Baltic states and Poland will be wiped out because they will host the forces that are prepared for first strike at Russia. US are far away but those countries are nearby and their leaders bring the danger of retaliation strike at their countries by following US agressive policy.

What a nice twist of other person's words, mr. beastcat;) Only one little detail is dropped out but the whole sentence gets quite another meaning. And the notice about harm that will be caused to Baltic states and Poland in case of their participation in US-led agression against Russia turns into the promise of wiping poor countries out of this planet by one of the leading Russian officials... Nice try but still too unprofessional.

[beastcat 14]

Heres him threatining George Bush in the beginning of the Iraq war, saying he will completely fail, while completely drunk of course. (Warning, contains a lot of bad words)

He later said this video was fabricated by the US or something.

Also a funny thing, he says that if the US messes with Russia, russian scientists will change the gravitational pole of the earth, completely flooding America.

Anyway, now that we have a background and know that he is not the best at predicting when drunk, here is some videos of him predicting stuff when sober, about Ukraine of course, so we stay on topic:

Here he says that Ukraine will shoot down a plane, a month before the boing crash.

http://youtu.be/HyepQgG32Bs

Here he is kinda predicting the revolution in Ukraine, however, here he was against Janukovich and a tiny bit pro-ukrainian.

He also said russia will annex crimea (Of course with more patriotic words), but I couldnt find a video that didnt have ear raping sound.

Here he is trying to phone Avakov, saying that russia will only stop when Ukraine gives all of "Novorossiya" to russia, which he doesn't even consider to be ukrainian territory.

---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 20:35 ----------

In fact he says that in case of WW3 start Baltic states and Poland will be wiped out because they will host the forces that are prepared for first strike at Russia. US are far away but those countries are nearby and their leaders bring the danger of retaliation strike at their countries by following US agressive policy.

What a nice twist of other person's words, mr. beastcat;) Only one little detail is dropped out but the whole sentence gets quite another meaning. And the notice about harm that will be caused to Baltic states and Poland in case of their participation in US-led agression against Russia turns into the promise of wiping poor countries out of this planet by one of the leading Russian officials... Nice try but still too unprofessional.

And that is why I said "would" not "will". Also the reasons as to why are obvious, thats like saying "I will eat food, because I'm hungry".

Edited August 12, 2014 by beastcat

[mistyronin 1181]

*WW3 mode ON*

If Russia nuked Poland and the Baltics, the first affected would be the Russians who are gonna receive the direct radiation ( remember Chernobyl? then multiply it a few times )

If Russia used conventional equipment, it would find it hard to fight against half of the World at once.

BTW I do have an anti-atomic shelter at home ( as many of Finland's buildings ).

*WW3 mode OFF*

[beastcat 14]

*WW3 mode ON*

If Russia nuked Poland and the Baltics, the first affected would be the Russians who are gonna receive the direct radiation ( remember Chernobyl? then multiply it a few times )

If Russia used conventional equipment, it would find it hard to fight against half of the World at once.

BTW I do have an anti-atomic shelter at home ( as many of Finland's buildings ).

*WW3 mode OFF*

Man, I want to have a nuke shelter as well. Not because I think WW3 is going to happen, but just because its kinda cool and fun. :D

[mistyronin 1181]

Man, I want to have a nuke shelter as well. Not because I think WW3 is going to happen, but just because its kinda cool and fun. :D

Hahaha in fact, to take advantage of it, the residents of my building have set a library room, a games room ( with ping pong table and sofas, so I can invite my friends or play with my wife ), a laundry room, and even... a Sauna! ( yeah those Finnish are really freaks ).

It's kind of an "inner" little village in my own building.

When I first saw it, I couldn't believe my eyes.

[sudayev 27]

*WW3 mode ON*

If Russia nuked Poland and the Baltics, the first affected would be the Russians who are gonna receive the direct radiation ( remember Chernobyl? then multiply it a few times )...

*WW3 mode OFF*

That's very unfortunate "buffer" location. When Poland was in Warsaw Pact all Nato warheads were targeted on Poland because of soviet army detachments here and nuclear weaponry that was stationed here as well.

Russian ambassador in Poland called to Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs due to big mouth Zhirinovsky flapping about dwarf countries being blasted off.

http://www.pap.pl/palio/html.run?_Instance=cms_www.pap.pl&_PageID=1&s=infopakiet&dz=kraj&idNewsComp=&filename=&idnews=175025&data=&status=biezace&_CheckSum=-1819640012

By the way... In 1991 USSR tried to smuggle more military personnel from East Germany into Poland disguised as "humanitarian aid". According to main propaganda organ of USSR - "Pravda" That convoy was organized by Orthodox Church of Russia in East Germany.

Polish Govt strongly disagreed on such proposition of aid and proposed moving the aid from E.Germany to Russia by using Polish railways instead of hundreds of soviet trucks manned by soviet soldiers. Later on Pravda accused Poland of lack of elementary compassion towards fellow christian brothers from Russia. Ridiculous if you ask. http://wpolityce.pl/swiat/208973-operacja-konwoj-humanitarny-byla-raz-przeciw-polsce-nie-wpuscilismy

[beastcat 14]

Hahaha in fact, to take advantage of it, the residents of my building have set a library room, a games room ( with ping pong table and sofas, so I can invite my friends or play with my wife ), a laundry room, and even... a Sauna! ( yeah those Finnish are really freaks ).

It's kind of an "inner" little village in my own building.

When I first saw it, I couldn't believe my eyes.

I seriously have to considering getting a nuke-shelter, but first I have to buy a house or something. I doubt they let me make one under our flat.

---------- Post added at 21:56 ---------- Previous post was at 21:50 ----------

That's very unfortunate "buffer" location. When Poland was in Warsaw Pact all Nato warheads were targeted on Poland because of soviet army detachments here and nuclear weaponry that was stationed here as well.

Russian ambassador in Poland called to Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs due to big mouth Zhirinovsky flapping about dwarf countries being blasted off.

http://www.pap.pl/palio/html.run?_Instance=cms_www.pap.pl&_PageID=1&s=infopakiet&dz=kraj&idNewsComp=&filename=&idnews=175025&data=&status=biezace&_CheckSum=-1819640012

By the way... In 1991 USSR tried to smuggle more military personnel from East Germany into Poland disguised as "humanitarian aid". According to main propaganda organ of USSR - "Pravda" That convoy was organized by Orthodox Church of Russia in East Germany.

Polish Govt strongly disagreed on such proposition of aid and proposed moving the aid from E.Germany to Russia by using Polish railways instead of hundreds of soviet trucks manned by soviet soldiers. Later on Pravda accused Poland of lack of elementary compassion towards fellow christian brothers from Russia. Ridiculous if you ask. http://wpolityce.pl/swiat/208973-operacja-konwoj-humanitarny-byla-raz-przeciw-polsce-nie-wpuscilismy

Well, now we have hundreds of russian trucks manned by russian soldiers moving towards Ukraine. The question people should start asking is "Did anything ever change?" Everyone acted like it did, yet we are once again moving towards a cold war.

[mistyronin 1181]

I seriously have to considering getting a nuke-shelter, but first I have to buy a house or something. I doubt they let me make one under our flat.

If you are interested, from the Wikipedia:

The Ministry of Interior maintains hard shelters, capable of accommodating 2.6 million persons, in cities and in other densely populated areas where two-thirds of the country's population live. They are built to withstand the detonation of a 100 kiloton nuclear bomb at ground zero.

Some are designed for multiple use as parking garages, schoolrooms, skating rinks, and swimming pools. By law, builders are obliged to include shelters in blocks measuring 3,000 cubic meters or more. In the late 1980s, in Helsinki, 536,000 spaces were provided, of which 118,000 were in large rock shelters and 14,000 were in subway stations. The shelter space was sufficient to accommodate over 100 percent of the nighttime population of the city, but only 67 percent of the daytime population

Check the photo in the article to see more or less how my building's shelter entrance is. Although in my case, the gate is full concrete ( no wooden decoration ) and the door is bigger and thicker, it has to be kept always open because it requires a couple or more to close. It remembers the movie Downfall.

You can always ask the Gov hahaha

Edited August 12, 2014 by MistyRonin

[beastcat 14]

If you are interested, from the Wikipedia:

Check the photo in the article to see more or less how my building's shelter entrance is. Although in my case, the gate is full concrete ( no wooden decoration ) and the door is bigger and thicker, it has to be kept always open because it requires a couple or more to close. It remembers the movie Downfall.

You can always ask the Gov hahaha

-Everyone who is here for the topic, skip this post, its super off topic-

In Ukraine (And other post soviet countries) the metro stations double as nuke shelter as well. I dont know the exact numbers and characteristics, but they are really far underground. Kinda getting really of topic now, but the Metro 2033 books and games base on the idea of humanity trying to survive in the metro after a nuclear war. The games are really awesome (And made in Ukraine, so a little more on topic), now with the "redux" versions comming out you may like to check them out if you havent already.

[aleksadragutin 9]

-Everyone who is here for the topic, skip this post, its super off topic-

In Ukraine (And other post soviet countries) the metro stations double as nuke shelter as well. I dont know the exact numbers and characteristics, but they are really far underground. Kinda getting really of topic now, but the Metro 2033 books and games base on the idea of humanity trying to survive in the metro after a nuclear war. The games are really awesome (And made in Ukraine, so a little more on topic), now with the "redux" versions comming out you may like to check them out if you havent already.

Here, every building has a basement that is bomb proof, but the state of some of them is really bad (no one went there to clean for 40 years bad).