Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

Base in Belbek seized by Russians

More info about that assault ( in english ):

( BBC ) Russian troops storm Ukraine airbase in Crimea, shots fired

( CNN ) Russian special forces attack Belbek Airbase in Crimea, spokesman for Ukraine's Defense Ministry says.

( Al Jazeera ) Russian troops enter Crimea airbase

Edited March 22, 2014 by MistyRonin

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes.

The Kremlin says it acted to protect its "compatriots" in Crimea from "fascists" moving in from the mainland Ukraine.

Obviously, we know now who the fascists are.

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1329,title,Uwolniony-dzialacz-automajdanu-kiedy-odcinali-mi-ucho-czulem-jakim-oni-sa-bratnim-narodem,wid,16490344,wiadomosc.html

http://iwpr.net/report-news/abducted-activists-tortured-crimean-forces

interview with hospitalized Ukrainians tortured by Russians from Crimea , one man has his ear cut , another was being touched by very hot things, they were electrical-shocked , another shot from gum-bullets etc.

[kireta21 13]

[bBC] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26627236

http://www.moldova.org/russian-diplomat-moldova-joins-eu-nato-transnistria-will-come-along/

Seem like Moldova is next in line to be "liberated" by Russian Army.

Fun Fact: Russian Army in Transnistria started as peacekeeping force, and were to leave in 2003 as agreed at Istanbul OSCE Summit in 1999, but Putin didn't feel like honoring Yeltsin's deal. Not the only one.

Edited March 22, 2014 by boota

[mistyronin 1181]

[bBC] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26627236

http://www.moldova.org/russian-diplomat-moldova-joins-eu-nato-transnistria-will-come-along/

Seem like Moldova is next in line to be "liberated" by Russian Army.

Fun Fact: Russian Army in Transnistria started as peacekeeping force, and were to leave in 2003 as agreed at Istanbul OSCE Summit in 1999, but Putin didn't feel like honoring Yeltsin's deal. Not the only one.

Well, I don't know if all Moldova, but I'm afraid Putin next target will be Odessa ( using Crimea as bridgehead ). That way he can connect Russia and Transnistria; and control most of the Black Sea ( so the trading ports )... which will give him a huge influence over Ukraine and Moldova.

[spooky lynx 73]

Joint funeral ceremony at Crimea.

http://komtv.org/21961-krymchane-prostilis-s-pogibshimi-zashhitnikami-respubliki/

[Tonci87 163]

Dispatch Seventeen

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/tatarzy-na-krymie-zapowiadaja-odrodzenie-ruchu-wyzwolenczego/rbcs2

Tatars say about their will to regain Crimea to be Tatar also again, cause Tatars were pushed from this are by Stalin and Stalin put there Russians (the same with Estonia for example, cause all thos "national" issues come from Stalin politics, which might not be know on West, so short explanation: Stalin loved to move large group of people to other area and place there other group for example Russians, just for causing problems and lack of trust within local community that would be able to stand against Stalin administration - divide et impera politics)

Tatars who have ethnic and historical right to live in Crimea say that they are forbidden to enter area by new administration of Crimea (now Russia) says Nedim Chalilow and Mustafa Dzemilev (Tatars of Crimea boycoted voting , they are 12% there but another 15% were moved by Stalin in 1944, so they would be there at least 25-30% if not Stalin, Ukrainians are 24%, so together with Tatars (if not Stalin deportation) they would be ca. 60% like todays Russians are 58%) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars < interesting to read when someone claims that Crimea is only Russian, cause it was also Tatars area by history, if not Stalin probably a lot of nations would love each other

by the way: there was told that voting was 83% of population, 96% supported Russia, but Russians are less than 60%, Tatars boycoted, so it means that Ukrainans supported Russia ? probably due to economy they rather to live in Russia cause this missing 20% must been Ukrainians or voting was falsified (lets count numbers again - Russians are there 58%, but voted 83% of Crimean administration population (96% for, 0.96*0.83=79-80% of support to join Russia in place where Russians are 58%, even if 100% Russians would vote for , it would give 58% of votes not 80% of population and not 96% support, who is 22% ???)

either Ukrainians supported for economical reasons and they prefere to live in Russia (Tatars said they boycoted) or Martians were voting there and referendum was falsified?

Tatars+Ukrainians = 36-37% of population of Crimea but result is only 4% against ? how it is possible (or Ukrainians want to live in Russia due to economy or Tatars not boycoted unlike they claim they did ?)

in result 58% for, 42% against everyone would believe , but 96% in place where Russians are 58% and Tatars and Ukrainians seems to be against ? can someone explain how it is possible to get 96% in place where theoretically Russians are 58%

Edited March 23, 2014 by vilas

[Rydygier 1309]

http://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/1082083,Szef-NATO-Rosja-jest-przeciwnikiem

Russia has to deal with long-term isolation and stagnation. The crisis in Ukraine shows that after 20 years the West has to rethink its relationship with Moscow - wrote the head of British diplomacy in the "Sunday Telegraph". Meanwhile, the Kremlin consolidates power in the Crimea. The head of NATO in Europe said: Russia is an enemy.

Kiev was concerned the fate of the head of the unit Belbek, Yuri Mamczur. The colonel was on Saturday arrested and taken to a military prison in Sevastopol. However, as stated on the Ukrainian Pravda, citing other media Mamczur had already been released.

Western diplomats increasingly in favor of a thorough change in the current policy towards Russia. It is also said openly about strengthening of NATO forces on the eastern border of the pact.

The concentration of Russian troops along the Ukrainian border worries headquarters of the North Atlantic Alliance . Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces of NATO in Europe, General Philip Breedlove said that Transnistria is threatened. U.S. General participated in the prestigious Brussels Forum, dedicated to international politics and economy.

Philip Breedlove believes that on the Crimea, Russia has not yet said its last word. According to him, the next goal is to Transnistria. That's breakaway region of Moldova, which authorities operate under the dictation of the Kremlin.

- Army along the Ukrainian border are very, very substantial and very, very ready, and it worries us " - said Philip Breedlove.

He added that Russia will try to create in Transnistria another frozen conflict, after Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh, to have this way the entire region under control.

- Russia is more an opponent than a partner - said General Breedlove. This happened, as noted, despite the efforts of the Alliance, to make Russia a reliable partner.

Seems, that after all Russia effectively makes enemies of NATO and other countries, that Russia considers as own enemy already for some strange reason. Is on good way to achieve that at least.

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Nato warns of Russian army build-up on Ukraine border

Supreme Allied Commander Europe Gen Philip Breedlove said Nato was in particular concerned about the threat to Moldova's Trans-Dniester region.

[vilas 477]

people in Trans-Dniestr (Naddnestr part of Moldova) also want to join to Russia due to economical condition in Moldova, one of most povert regions of Europe

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Nato warns of Russian army build-up on Ukraine border

Russian Government says that it's not true that there has been an increase of troops in the Ukrainian border.

( Russia Today ) Moscow: No troop build-up or undeclared military activity near Ukraine borders

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, if they say this, there is no reason not to believe them :o:

[mistyronin 1181]

Well, if they say this, there is no reason not to believe them :o:

Hahaha, I was just posting both sides words.

But obviously if Russians are increasing their troops they would denied it; after all according to the Russian Government there are no Russian troops outside of the Russia Naval's base in Crimea...

On the other hand the US could be forcing a bit the "fear", to increase influence in the area and maybe gain some more allies for NATO.

( The Guardian ) Russian troops may be massing to invade Ukraine, says White House

Andriy Deshchytsia, Ukraine's acting foreign minister, said the chances of all-out war between his government and Moscow “are growingâ€, adding: “The situation is becoming even more explosive than it was a week ago.â€

( CNN ) Crimea is just Putin’s ‘opening game,’ says Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In this documentary ( in Catalan language ) about Crimea shows the Tartar point of view.

How Tartars organized themselves with radios and patrolling their neighborhoods. Also how pro Russians groups marked the doors of the houses were Ukrainians live ( same that happened when Stalin deported them ).

In the same doc, an officer of the Crimean government recognize that from day 1, Russian troops were on the ground "to protect Crimean citizens" ( from the Spets naz that occupied the Crimean parliament ).

Also an interesting point from a Crimean woman that says that "thank god now in Crimea there will be only one language, Russian; because we are the 60% of the population here".

Close to the end they talk about possible economic problems ( that Crimea could be in a deep crisis unless Moscow sends lots of millions of rubles; quite improbable comparing the situation with Abkhazia ).

Seems that most of people ( both Ukrainians and ethnic Russians ) are mainly afraid of the cut of freedoms after joining Russia ( free demonstration, freedom of speech etc. )

Edited March 23, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

Am I the only one who thinks that we are going back to a new cold war?

[Beagle 684]

Am I the only one who thinks that we are going back to a new cold war?

That's what the USA wants, very obviously. The only ones that would suffer from a cold war would be europe and russia. Unfortunately the EU is already under direct remote control by the USA via the german government.

[mistyronin 1181]

That's what the USA wants, very obviously.

I don't agree. IMO USA was already happy in its position as supermega ruler of the world.

The problem is that after the bluff in Afghanistan, Irak and the War on Terror they are now weakened. Situation that both China and Russia are taking advantage of.

Putin is trying to remake the Russian rule over Eastern Europe, sorry... I meant return Russia to its past glory. Just watch his speeches these last few years.

While China is now trying to expand in the Yellow Sea. Copying both Western and Russian technology.

At the end of the Cold War there was one only superpower, now we are seeing three that are gonna dispute their influences over the world.

While the EU is trying to grow as a power, but there are too many feathers for too few indians ( american indians ); there are too many leaders. So they are in between all the other powers.

Edited March 23, 2014 by MistyRonin

[kireta21 13]

Am I the only one who thinks that we are going back to a new cold war?

Yeah, it seem to. Russia will grab whatever it can without going full war. NATO will establish new defensive line near border of Russian controlled territory, though exact place is hard to predict, whatever it will be Ukraine or Moldova/Poland, depends if Russia decide to invade before that happens. Possibly new arm race, this time Russia won't be outclassed, mostly thanks to America outstretching it finances over war in Afghanistan and constant bumping of healthcare, welfare and other social spendings. Pretty good time to start it actually.

Interesting enough, Zhirinovsky is at it again, and this time he proposes divide of Ukraine not as private person, but in offical letter from Russian Duma to Polish, Bulgarian and Hungarian ministries of foreign affairs. It seem less and less like bad joke, and more like testing ground for actual proposition.

Edited March 23, 2014 by boota

[Hjelmern 13]

Fascists have taken power in Ukraine; eliminating cultural ties with the country that have supported them since the fall of the soviet union, destroying WW2-monuments, supporting nazi-collabrators from WW2 and attacking the communist party-headquarter.

[vilas 477]

USA doesn't need cold war 2

rather Putin want to rebuild empire and gain 130% votes in next election

--------

but what bothers me is calclation of Crimean referendum

there was 83% people voting

96% supported Russia while Russians are 58% and Tatars and Ukrainians who told to be against were 12+25% so theoretically 37% people should be against, but result is 96% for, really weird

Fascists have taken power in Ukraine; eliminating cultural ties with the country that have supported them since the fall of the soviet union, destroying WW2-monuments, supporting nazi-collabrators from WW2 and attacking the communist party-headquarter.

comunists murdered people for decades, Stalin murdered more people than Hitler, if you call hlodomor and ocupation- support it is really strange for me

Interesting enough, Zhirinovsky is at it again, and this time he proposes divide of Ukraine not as private person, but in offical letter from Russian Duma to Polish, Bulgarian and Hungarian ministries of foreign affairs. It seem less and less like bad joke, and more like testing ground for actual proposition.

such proposal will not be accepted by anyone in Poland, even right-wing Polish parties say that Ukrainians have their right to their land , in my country even 1% would not support it (Zhyrinovsky has 11% support) Edited March 23, 2014 by vilas

[Beagle 684]

USA doesn't need cold war 2

oh dear you can't imagine how much the USA needs new cold war era. NATO is provoking it since 1992. The treaty that was made in 1990 said there would be no expansion of NATO into eastern Europe beyond the territorry of the GDR after reunificaytion...now have a look at current NATO members. Edited March 23, 2014 by Beagle

[mistyronin 1181]

USA doesn't need cold war 2

rather Putin want to rebuild empire and gain 130% votes in next election

Uhm, well right now although IMO Russia is a pseudodemocracy ( some essential rights are restricted ), I don't really think that he needs to rig any elections.

Putin is trying to build a Great Russia ( like the old Empires, like the Third Reich ), expanding it's influence and territory. For what I could see Russian people seem to like that; after all is a great boost to the injured self esteem after the Cold War.

oh dear you can't imagine how much the USA needs new cold war era.

USA is the one who less wants a new Cold War, they prefer to have the hegemony over the world like this last 20 years.

Why would you want a Cold War... if you are the only superpower that can do and undo whatever you want?

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/rosyjska-duma-oferuje-polsce-podzial-ukrainy-msz-to-kuriozalne/n9pyl

yes, indeed Russian Duma send proposal of occupying Ukraine by Poland to Ministry of Foreign Affairs , what a weird stuff, really nice , 96% support in region where Russians are 58% and this

USA is the one who less wants a new Cold War, they prefer to have the hegemony over the world like this last 20 years.

cold war with Russia would not make US wealthier, but more costs, US citizens and US congres will not need to raise costs, of course , US prefer to do business than have cold war

[mistyronin 1181]

yes, indeed Russian Duma send proposal of occupying Ukraine by Poland to Ministry of Foreign Affairs , what a weird stuff, really nice , 96% support in region where Russians are 58% and this

Seems that more than the Duma, was Zhirinovsky motu proprio who sended the letter.

He has a 11.4% in the parliament, so although its worrying that this kind of fascist can send this kind of letter, hopefully he has not enough support to do anything too bad ( for now ).

Edited March 23, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Beagle 684]

USA is the one who less wants a new Cold War, they prefer to have the hegemony over the world like this last 20 years.

Why would you want a Cold War... if you are the only superpower that can do and undo whatever you want?

The USA is currently at a constant struggle to keep that hegemony and both,, the EU and Russia have come in their way too often, the EU in economics and Russia in political way...now with one stroke both can be put down...the only winner in a cold war scenaruio is the USA....but it might turn out that the only Winner might be Russia and the BRICS. The old first world is in constant decline and the era of the allmighty US is about to end...a new cold war could stop that.