What is going to happen when Arma 2's content is released? [Problems and solutions]

[PuFu 4591]

As many of you know, all Arma 2 content is being released so that it can be ported to Arma 3. But this is going to come with a few problems. (This is not a discussion on BI doing an official port.)

Here is a list if the problems that will occur.

1. Hundreds of random ports of varying quality and support, will flood the Arma 3 mods selection.

2. Mods including the same vehicles but each mod has to be downloaded with the vehicles as they do not share them.

3. Hundreds of mods just to play with Arma 2 content.

4. People working against each other for popularity.

5. To use all Arma 2 content, you will have to download many different mods.

6. People's efforts on porting will be wasted when 20 other people do the exact same.

How this problem could be solved:

1. A community effort to port everything together in an expansion pack for Arma 3. This would include making the vehicles work with the new stuff and keeping them realistic.

2. Mods would use this community expansion pack rather than having everyone download the same content of varying quality and support.

3. Quality and support would be consistent.

4. Universal compatibility for other mods to use.

The idea is one central expansion pack for all Arma 2 assets. If someone wants to modify a vehicle or weapon, then it has this Arma 2 expansion pack as a dependency just as though they were modding Arma 2.

First off, i really don't see what first bolded list as a community wide "problem".

1. Yes, i would say dozens not hundreds, but so what? Everyone is free to choose whatever he wants to install. Also everyone is free to use the samples as per EULA as he/she wants

2. Where is the problem?

3. You can already use A2 content. The samples are provided by BIS for a completely different reason than making a complete A2>A3 community driven DLC for its entire content.

4. People are not working against each other, far from it.

Take me as an example, i have a kiowa done in both LP and HP form for quite some time, Uvs done and partially tetured.. It took me over 1.5years of random work hours here and there between paid work and other stuff to get it where it is, as well as a couple of starts from ground up due to wanting to push the quality and optimization as far as i could. It is and will be a one man job versus the RHS work for instance. There are at least 2 other models of the same type being worked on, that will most likely be released before i get any free time to finish it up. I will NOT get together with any of the other lads doing the same vehicle, nor will i abandon my own. And that is not because i am not a teamplayer, but rather due to all the work i have already put in it, as well as my own preference towards some things. Would it make it quicker for the average Joe to download this if 1-3 people would work together? Surely, but that is hardly what i am after, or the scope of my own work

5. same as 3

6. There is no such thing as waste of efforts. I said it before. Everyone around here who does modding work knows it, unless it is BI who either changes things mid-development, or has such a weird system that even work-arounds are not possible.

When A1 content was released, everyone seen an increased amount of quantity in the addons. Not quality at the start for obvious reasons, but that had a relative low impact on everyone (users and content creators alike).

PS: please stop using that "realism/realistic" thing every so often if you'd be so kind

;2567321']The plan is this:

----

1. Setup several git data repository for everyone to access' date=' get the latest versions and commit their work back to.
   [*']Repositories per vehicle type (cars, tanks, choppers, etc) with all p3ds, model.cfg and maybe also configs.
   
2. Those will be also mirrored by play withSIX network for mass download.
   
3. Single file(s) download is also possible via the repository browser.
   
4. People make changes and commit them back to these central repository to share their improvements.
   
5. Best practice would be to do this as frequent as possible:
   
   1. 
      
   2. to do lots of small iterative improvements.
      
   3. to have good changelog/overview of the changes done.
      
   4. to allow others to benefit from quickly and avoid duplication of work.
      

[*]A thread or even a forum, as well as a public skype group to coordinate the effort somewhat will be helpful.

Yes, and this is different than what OP suggested, mainly because it provides a workdlow and layout that would make things easier for everyone rather than force things down someone's neck, or holding someone's mouse end to do things a certain way. a similar approach to CMA Bradley or Mi-28 (neither being all that productive in the end) is a better alternative to having a group dedicated to porting content over (just as with the CWR, the sheer size of things would have a impact on the joy of work).

Edited November 30, 2013 by PuFu

[Redphoenix 1539]

Just saying:

Bad ports will eventually die.

That's nature.

[Dwarden 1124]

Is that bitterness i see dripping through your post?

Lets not forget that the only reason this is even a issue is because there exists no straightforward way to sync mods with missions or multiplayer(s).

You are the ones that forced all the modders into there own little cave seeing there is no way to share anything you make quickly and nobody wants to install dozens of mods by hand.

This pity train is closed for BI Developers.. Sorry <3

did you even bothered read what i wrote? i addressed the OPs concern about mod content quality and repetetiveness ...

distribution is another ballbark (aka wait and see future unfold :) )

[Tonci87 163]

;2567321']The plan is this:

----

1. Setup several git data repository for everyone to access' date=' get the latest versions and commit their work back to.
   [*']Repositories per vehicle type (cars, tanks, choppers, etc) with all p3ds, model.cfg and maybe also configs.
   
2. Those will be also mirrored by play withSIX network for mass download.
   
3. Single file(s) download is also possible via the repository browser.
   
4. People make changes and commit them back to these central repository to share their improvements.
   
5. Best practice would be to do this as frequent as possible:
   
   1. 
      
   2. to do lots of small iterative improvements.
      
   3. to have good changelog/overview of the changes done.
      
   4. to allow others to benefit from quickly and avoid duplication of work.
      

[*]A thread or even a forum, as well as a public skype group to coordinate the effort somewhat will be helpful.

The license most likely will require for ppl to share the source of their modified data once they do a release at least.

Hopefully people will do share back as soon as possible to let everyone benefit from each other.

People can use the updated models to make actual addons from these or create new content based on these models.

This would be the best approach to this.

[defk0n_NL 2]

did you even bothered read what i wrote? i addressed the OPs concern about mod content quality and repetetiveness ...

distribution is another ballbark (aka wait and see future unfold :) )

I know what you wrote, I was reading in between the lines ;)

Thats not say because there is no mod sync everybody starts creating their own mod Its more to say that because there is no mod sync you are forced to choose mods for mission XYZ.

At the end of day m16 is m16

Edited November 30, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[saul 24]

Honostly, who cares that there will be 14 m16 mods or 20 ak47 mods or 6 humvees. At the end of the day, people will choose the ones they want. Now I am not saying that you can't get a community effort going and CREATE a modteam, my only question is what are you going to do with the content when it is available. Are you just going to do direct ports adding physX and the like small things or are you going to do something REVOLUTIONARY and AWE INSPIRING!!!

[NeuroFunker 11]

well, nobody here forbids anyone, to mod at it's own taste. The OP suggest to gather group of people, to work on quality content, so at the end we will get arma 2 stuff, with good quality. No idea, what can cause a butthurt by some here. I for example preffer quality over quantity. It's not a world wonders, there will be 100's a like addons, and this is not good or bad either, but just a fact.

[PuFu 4591]

well, nobody here forbids anyone, to mod at it's own taste. The OP suggest to gather group of people, to work on quality content, so at the end we will get arma 2 stuff, with good quality.

Wrong, this is NOT what the OP suggested. Moreso, if you really want to work on quality content (a3 level and above), one would better start from scratch.

No idea, what can cause a butthurt by some here.

If you brought this up now, hardly anyone actually butthurt besides the OP. You can always check the lad's post history to make yourself an opinion about it.

[UltimateBawb 1]

So many people with ideas, no one that can actually do anything. Seriously, who here can actually 3D model well, texture well, or implement well? Probably a very small amount. Posting lists detailing your ideas doesn't help anything; get shit done if you want to, though I doubt this idea will go anywhere.

[adanteh 58]

There sure is a lot of maturity in this thread. Sometime I feel like the 'Arma community' overestimates itself a bit about just how great of a community it is.

@Defkon, auto mod download is nice, but no need to be a bitch. I'm normally not a fan of ProGamer's posts, but you have to admit it would be nice if there was one mod with plenty of good content free for everyone to use, instead of a million random mods. I know a million random mods aren't so much of a problem when there is auto mod downloading, but chances are half of the mods I'm downloading has a lot of stuff I don't need. I really don't care about bloating up installations with clone after clone after clone, just because I want something from mod A and mod B, but besides those two things I want it's all cloned content.

Anyway, I'm all for .kju's suggested flow. It's important to know that if you put something in a project like that, you transfer the rights to the project. No pulling back your own added content, because you happen to have a disagreement with someone else that also added things to the project. I guess the main thing to do here is keep it simple and standardized. Updates to turrets, proper PhysX and I'm happy. Then again, I do expect a lot of 'teams' wanting to do a full port. It's a noble cause, but it's going to be hard to achieve. I guess it just comes down to motivating people to contribute their updated vehicle to a project like this.

[enex 11]

I think this should be directed at specific modder.Like what will you do when MLODs come through?

Okay I'm gonna be doing this rifle.Great could you share this with us and let us do what we want

with it in modpack?and for this to work you (pro gamer/kju) would have to appeal on their senses of community

values and their sense of achieving something bigger and having one great modpack with their stuff in them.

[Dwarden 1124]

I know what you wrote, I was reading in between the lines ;)

Thats not say because there is no mod sync everybody starts creating their own mod Its more to say that because there is no mod sync you are forced to choose mods for mission XYZ.

At the end of day m16 is m16

again you missed what i wrote , read my last line, THINK ... read AGAIN ... THINK AGAIN ... repeat as may times as needed if you don't get it yet

[NeuroFunker 11]

again you missed what i wrote , read my last line, THINK ... read AGAIN ... THINK AGAIN ... repeat as may times as needed if you don't get it yet

"bohemia "introllactive" at it's finest ;) Keep rocking guys!!

---------- Post added at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 ----------

Wrong, this is NOT what the OP suggested. Moreso, if you really want to work on quality content (a3 level and above), one would better start from scratch.

If you brought this up now, hardly anyone actually butthurt besides the OP. You can always check the lad's post history to make yourself an opinion about it.

why should i stalk after anyone, i liked the idea he suggests here, as far as i could understand, no more or less...

[PuFu 4591]

So many people with ideas, no one that can actually do anything. Seriously, who here can actually 3D model well, texture well, or implement well? Probably a very small amount. Posting lists detailing your ideas doesn't help anything; get shit done if you want to, though I doubt this idea will go anywhere.

I know i can since i have been making a living out of it for quite some time now.

I think this should be directed at specific modder.Like what will you do when MLODs come through?

Okay I'm gonna be doing this rifle.Great could you share this with us and let us do what we want

with it in modpack?and for this to work you (pro gamer/kju) would have to appeal on their senses of community

values and their sense of achieving something bigger and having one great modpack with their stuff in them.

If the eula for sample files from a1 is the starting point for a3 ones, every work based of the sample files needs to be released in mlod format anusing the same copy rights and eula the creator agreed with ( which also means everyone is free to use and modify and rerealease this content within arma frachise)

"bohemia "introllactive" at it's finest ;) Keep rocking guys!!

---------- Post added at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 ----------

why should i stalk after anyone, i liked the idea he suggests here, as far as i could understand, no more or less...

What is the idea here, as you've understood it? Because i fear you haven't...

[NeuroFunker 11]

gather a group of people, who interrested to work together, on a project based on arma 2 samples.

[defk0n_NL 2]

again you missed what i wrote , read my last line, THINK ... read AGAIN ... THINK AGAIN ... repeat as may times as needed if you don't get it yet

hurr.. I said i know what you wrote.

From a modders perspective there is freedom of choice but for everybody else they are forced to choose. :)

Clone mods are not a problem. They are the symptom. No mod sync is the problem seeing it eats away time and makes the "choice" harder.

@Defkon, auto mod download is nice, but no need to be a bitch.

no need to call names.

[Dwarden 1124]

still cold ... like on Siberia ... keep thinking ... :cool:

[progamer 14]

PS: please stop using that "realism/realistic" thing every so often if you'd be so kind

Why? I was referring to using the new Physx simulations but keeping the vehicle realistic. And having weapon penetration, damage and armor realistic as well.

[VanZant 48]

still cold ... like on Siberia ... keep thinking ... :cool:

Are you (BIS) doing the m16 remake?

Edited December 1, 2013 by VanZant

[Tyl3r99 41]

i dont think BI realise how much people would pay for the official port over... lol scares me to see them turn down this opportunity.

[PuFu 4591]

gather a group of people, who interrested to work together, on a project based on arma 2 samples.

Then the thread should be called differently, and not problems and solutions, and would beong to addon discussion thread, wouldn't it?

Why? I was referring to using the new Physx simulations but keeping the vehicle realistic. And having weapon penetration, damage and armor realistic as well.

Most of the time physx has nothing to do with realism.

Are you (BIS) doing the m4 remake?

Why woulld BI do a M4 remake?

[VanZant 48]

Why woulld BI do a M4 remake?

Mistake, i meant m16. It is just a guess concerning the chat between Dwarden and defk0n_NL.

[slatts 1978]

i dont think BI realise how much people would pay for the official port over... lol scares me to see them turn down this opportunity.

Yes and instead they are giving us the content for free for our creative ideas, you should be happy and not scared ;)

Anyway.. I was around for the Arma 1 models and Ive no fear of any problems from user X doing the same as user Y with small differences. IMHO if we let new users do what they want even if it is the same as 5 other mods. If that encourages them to develop their skills and release better content then thats better than having them sit on the fence about starting or waiting for this group making all the things

[chortles 263]

i dont think BI realise how much people would pay for the official port over... lol scares me to see them turn down this opportunity.

I don't see that as the case; the writing was on the wall when Maruk flat-out said that "upgrading the Arma 2 massive content library to Arma 3 standards is beyond what we can do in reasonable time."

P.S. There's already been quite a bit of utilizing the ArmA 1 samples as a base for 'overlapping' Arma 3 mods already, I've already play-tested some! Seriously, I don't have nearly the negativity towards so many derivative mods that leads the OP to treat it as something to be 'remedied' by a 'community project'.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Then the thread should be called differently, and not problems and solutions, and would beong to addon discussion thread, wouldn't it?

Most of the time physx has nothing to do with realism.

Why woulld BI do a M4 remake?

should, because of what, you say so?