Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[maturin 12]

I think this could solve the problem. My main issue is the sudden slow down. It hits hard and leaves you in a bad spot.

In that case you should go on the bugtracker and make a feature request for a stamina panic button, like ACE 2 has. Or make a thread about that.

That would be infinitely more useful than just adding more hyperbole and inaccurate complaints to this thread and making people exhaustively correct you.

[Alwarren 2767]

Fatigue is beautiful.

This.

Fatigue adds another tactical layer to the game. No more AT-Snipers with a spare LMG in their backpacks.

[beavis_5000 10]

In that case you should go on the bugtracker and make a feature request for a stamina panic button, like ACE 2 has. Or make a thread about that.

That would be infinitely more useful than just adding more hyperbole and inaccurate complaints to this thread and making people exhaustively correct you.

The only thing I said incorrect was about the timing it takes until the drop off.

I think if anything I was just explaining my point poorly.

This thread is "fatigue feed back" and the drop off is a feature of the fatigue system so this seems like the right thread.

No need for a panic button (although that also sounds like a good idea). I feel smoothing out that drop off would help a lot.

[Alwarren 2767]

I feel smoothing out that drop off would help a lot.

Just checking, are you aware of the difference lowering your weapon makes? If you keep your weapon lowered, you will tire much more slowly.

[beavis_5000 10]

Just checking, are you aware of the difference lowering your weapon makes? If you keep your weapon lowered, you will tire much more slowly.

I did not know that until this thread. Dispite an insane amount of Arma 3 hours I'm not even sure which button lowers the gun.

[roshnak 41]

In that case you should go on the bugtracker and make a feature request for a stamina panic button, like ACE 2 has. Or make a thread about that.

That would be infinitely more useful than just adding more hyperbole and inaccurate complaints to this thread and making people exhaustively correct you.

If he just wants the sudden drop off from 15 to 11 kph to instead by gradual, then I'm not sure a panic button like ACE had is really called for.

Just checking, are you aware of the difference lowering your weapon makes? If you keep your weapon lowered, you will tire much more slowly.

Not when sprinting, though.

[maturin 12]

I did not know that until this thread. Dispite an insane amount of Arma 3 hours I'm not even sure which button lowers the gun.

2x Control

[-Coulum- 35]

Wait... isn't the sprint button the "panic button"...

[Alwarren 2767]

Not when sprinting, though.

No. It's still useful since it frees up stamina for sprints, and sprinting is for emergency use anyway.

[roshnak 41]

Wait... isn't the sprint button the "panic button"...

I think ACE 2 had a feature where you could push a button and it would give you a little burst of extra stamina. I thought it was kind of dumb, to be honest.

[chortles 263]

I think ACE 2 had a feature where you could push a button and it would give you a little burst of extra stamina. I thought it was kind of dumb, to be honest.

VBS3 also differentiates between a "regular" sprint (stops at 70% Fatigue) and an "all-out" sprint (stops at 100% Fatigue), the former via Wx2 and RCtrl+W.

[froggyluv 2136]

Ace's fatigue was really over the top imo. Straight up belly flops after very short runs, no quick rest hand on knee or any other random minute actions that take place before a full on torso dive to the ground from exhaustion.

[roshnak 41]

VBS3 also differentiates between a "regular" sprint (stops at 70% Fatigue) and an "all-out" sprint (stops at 100% Fatigue), the former via Wx2 and RCtrl+W.

Is that how ACE worked, though? I thought ACE's system was basically "push this button to temporarily disable fatigue induced falling down."

I think the VBS3 way is actually pretty clever, but I also think that there are enough people who are having trouble with Arma 3's system that a more complicated system might be even worse.

[chortles 263]

Ace's fatigue was really over the top imo. Straight up belly flops after very short runs, no quick rest hand on knee or any other random minute actions that take place before a full on torso dive to the ground from exhaustion.

ACE's implementation of fatigue level is immaterial to the discussion of the idea of distinctly different sprint actions.

[maturin 12]

Ace's fatigue was really over the top imo. Straight up belly flops after very short runs, no quick rest hand on knee or any other random minute actions that take place before a full on torso dive to the ground from exhaustion.

They were hamstrung by technical limitations and lack of animations. In ArmA 2 you couldn't even script a slower running speed based on fatigue.

But the system was actually even more forgiving than ArmA 3's. You could run a kilometer or more with light gear.

[Greenfist 1863]

If anyone's interested in the fatigue's exact numbers: open the editor, place a player and hit preview. Then copy the following code and paste it to the console and exec:

fixdfat = 0;newfat = 0;oldfat = 0;diffat = 0;oldpos = getpos player;dist = 0;seconds = 0;targeted = 0;
player addAction ["Reset fatigue", "player setfatigue 0;fixdfat = 0;"];
player addAction ["Fixed fatigue +5 %", "fixdfat = (fixdfat) +0.05;"];
player addAction ["Fixed fatigue -5 %", "fixdfat = (fixdfat) -0.05;"];
player addAction ["Full fatigue", "player setfatigue 1;"];
player addAction ["Reset time & distance","seconds = 0;dist = 0;"];
player addaction ["Open Virtual Arsenal", { ["Open",true] call BIS_fnc_arsenal; }]; 
player addAction ["Go there","player setposasl (screenToWorld [0.5,0.5]);"];
onMapSingleClick "player setpos _pos";
0 = [] spawn  {
while {true} do
{	newfat = (round((getfatigue player)* 10000))/100;
diffat = (round((newfat - oldfat)*100))/100;
dist = dist + (oldpos distance player);
oldpos = getpos player;
tangle = [getPos player, getDir player,1] call BIS_fnc_terrainGradAngle;
if (fixdfat < 0) then {fixdfat = 0;};
if (fixdfat > 1) then {fixdfat = 1;};
if (fixdfat != 0) then {player setfatigue fixdfat;};
if ((player distance cursortarget) < (player distance (screenToWorld [0.5,0.5]))) then {
	targeted = (player distance cursortarget)}
	else {targeted = (player distance (screenToWorld [0.5,0.5]));};
hintsilent parsetext format["<t size='1.15'>Fatigue %1 %<br/>Change %2<br/>Distance %3 m<br/>Speed %4 km/h<br/>Load %5 %<br/>%6 sec<br/>Target %7 m<br/>Angle %8</t>",newfat,diffat,round(dist),round(speed player),round((loadabs player)/1200*1000) /10,seconds,round targeted,round (tangle)];
seconds = seconds +1;
oldfat = newfat;
sleep 0.5;
if (fixdfat != 0) then {player setfatigue fixdfat;};
sleep 0.5;	
};};

It has a couple of good tools (like Virtual Arsenal, teleport by map click or user action, fixed fatigue level) and you can use it on any map unlike the default Arsenal one.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Greenfist

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

The way Fatigue is right now is basically this. If you don't rest, your at a MASSIVE disadvantage.

[real_Davi 10]

They way how Fatigue is right now is good!

I had a short time in the Austrian Army (1,5years) and from my experience the "Fatigue System" is pretty solid.

Its not 100% Simulation because in that case you would idle alot more :p

Its a good Simulation feeling with a bit of an Arcade touch.

Also you are not designed to run with a full Backpack and an Rocket Launcher.

The non Rocket Launcher Backpack Fatigue feels awesome and is pretty accurate on a short term view.

Ah one short thing i have the feeling that even after a long run you should be more accurate if you are lying on the ground.

PS: My English is poor i know.

[fabio_chavez 103]

All the raise weapon issues I found:

Raise Weapon keys don't bring the weapon up when crouched.

Vibrating in first person view when lowering or raising rifle. The one that tpw mentioned.

ToggleRaiseWeapon not working properly... Some different scenarios can be found from the related ones. In these scenarios mostly the animations are too long so the character moves a lot while you don't even press anything. You can quickly see why in the animation tab in the editor.

i mean VARIOUS animation bugs + temporary raisweapon is not working correctly... its obviously totally bugged.

[St. Jimmy 272]

I'll post this here also:

Btw I've just found an interesting thing that I was wondering last time I watched some people running without a gun. Now the naked guy made me think this again and test this quickly

It's much more effective to have a backpack where you can put your gun for the time when you're running longer distances because when you don't have anything in your hands you get fatigued less and you can run 7km/h faster!

People with launchers don't get advantage of this and if you've a pistol you also want to put that in your backpack to get free hands.

---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------

Test with a 41% loadout. Weapon naturally lowered and not the swag jogging.

Gun in a backpack:

1,7km of jogging (14-11km/h) and 480m of sprinting (25-20km/h) until 60% fatigued.

Gun in hands

780m of jogging (14-11km/h) and 210m sprinting (18-15km/h) until 60% fatigued.

[myshaak 0]

Wow, that's some interesting !science! right there, thanks for the tip!

[CaptainObvious 95]

Nice one Jimmy!

Thanks for the devs too, the depth of fatigue mechanics is awesome indeed.

[Greenfist 1863]

Since we now have this "new", more punishing fatigue system, why can't we put our weapon on the back? (Not in the backpack, 'cause that's just silly.)

It would be nothing but a logical feature for the system when you really need to travel far by foot, and aren't expecting enemy contact. It shouldn't be a huge job, right? Animation tweaks, a new keybind (not an action menu item) etc.?

Only bump in the road I can think of is AI, but they could just follow their waypoint behaviour or their human leader's example.

[das attorney 858]

IIRC correctly, Smookie talked about this in A2 and there are some animation problems re: slinging guns.

[ceeeb 147]

One shortcoming of the current fatigue model I would like to add (if it hasn't been already mentioned) is the improbable high stamina recovery rate when prone vs crouch/standing.

I do not have any real world experience in lying down to recover, but it seems extremely unlikely to me that the human body recovers significantly more quickly while lying down than standing up. In my experience, the natural impulse to assist recovery is to walk (to encourage release of lactic acid etc from muscle fibres), generally with hands on hips or head (to allow lungs to expand fully, although this may be taught behavior). I would assume lying down compresses the lungs and reduces breathing capacity. When fatigued, the difference in physical effort required to crouch or stand is completely insignificant compared to improved circulation and respiration.

Edited November 28, 2014 by ceeeb