Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[froggyluv 2136]

What I don't understand is why when you have full gear it takes exactly the same time to start and stop moving as with no gear at all?

I don't think too many games take inventory based acceleration/deceleration into account except maybe for vehicles.

[valtas 11]

Have you tried change your playstyle? Weapon lowering help a lot(double ctrl). Sprint when necessary(move from cover to cover).

of course, and is moderately playable

but .. like the fatigue system is now not brings me to realism. Does not seem real, and it is not a playable improvement

do not tell me that a soldier can not run for an hour with 20 kg above?

I do not mind the fatigue, I see no logical is the duration and intervals

Should Change that, the coop. simulation are usually long: would be as easy as the character gets tired after half an hour loading equipment or 10 minutes running with 30kg on his back, but not after a 1 minute sprint.

(forgive me for my words, you will notice that my language is not English)

[Jona33 51]

of course, and is moderately playable

but .. like the fatigue system is now not brings me to realism. Does not seem real, and it is not a playable improvement

do not tell me that a soldier can not run for an hour with 20 kg above?

I do not mind the fatigue, I see no logical is the duration and intervals

Should Change that, the coop. simulation are usually long: would be as easy as the character gets tired after half an hour loading equipment or 10 minutes running with 30kg on his back, but not after a 1 minute sprint.

(forgive me for my words, you will notice that my language is not English)

I think you're overestimating the fitness of soldiers, there's been a documentary on this country recently about Royal Marines training, now the Marines are one of the toughest military outfits out there, during the Falklands war they covered ninety miles in three days with all their kit and then fought their way up a couple of mountains. At the end of the eight month basic training you have the four commando tests, one of them is a nine mile in ninety minutes speed march with 21lbs (overall about 11kg) + rifle which is done at a combination run/walk. One of the guys completely passed out on his first attempt and then on his retake broke his leg. 20kg is bloody heavy, you are not going to be running like that for losng.

[Alwarren 2767]

What I don't understand is why when you have full gear it takes exactly the same time to start and stop moving as with no gear at all?

I hate that as well. There is no inertia to movement at all, you can make 180 degrees turns while running, no problem. The bad part is that it seems they had actually planned that, as some of the leftover animations show:

[twisted 128]

What I don't understand is why when you have full gear it takes exactly the same time to start and stop moving as with no gear at all?

yes, that'd much better to have.

[13islucky 10]

I hate that as well. There is no inertia to movement at all, you can make 180 degrees turns while running, no problem. The bad part is that it seems they had actually planned that, as some of the leftover animations show:

Oh God that's beautiful. Shame it never made it in.

[devilslayersbane 28]

I hate that as well. There is no inertia to movement at all, you can make 180 degrees turns while running, no problem. The bad part is that it seems they had actually planned that, as some of the leftover animations show:

Laxemann where are you?

[machineabuse 11]

do not tell me that a soldier can not run for an hour with 20 kg above?

No rudeness intended but I don't think you really appreciate just how fit the ArmA soldier is. On flat ground with 20kg he can move pretty darned far and fast before needing to rest unless you are trying to hold the sprint key. And for another thing you need to appreciate that he can do that over rough terrain that for a guy carrying 20kg he never slips, never sprains his ankles, never needs to work through blisters and never needs to hydrate.

Now with that said; I DO think fatigue should be scale-able for players who want to play a more of a typical shooter.

[killzone_kid 1330]

I don't think too many games take inventory based acceleration/deceleration into account except maybe for vehicles.

A game like A3 where overall load is a factor should have one

[roshnak 41]

Now with that said; I DO think fatigue should be scale-able for players who want to play a more of a typical shooter.

I've said it before, but I really think this is the realm of mods.

Having a lot of options to change gameplay/trying to please multiple camps may sound like a good idea, but it usually leads to an unfocused game and confused players. I believe that, more than anything else, this would make it very difficult to get a feel for the fatigue system and your avatar's capabilities (especially without a stamina bar).

Players have been modding in fatigue systems with harsher penalties for years. Why shouldn't it go the other way, too?

A game like A3 where overall load is a factor should have one

Perhaps, but I doubt it would make much of a practical difference in gameplay.

[Variable 322]

Having a lot of options to change gameplay/trying to please multiple camps may sound like a good idea, but it usually leads to an unfocused game and confused players.

True. As an example one can view the results of cutting out BIS First Aid module from the game. Multiple revive scripts emerged, each one with different behavior, making a mess for people who play coop and confusing them.

[killzone_kid 1330]

Perhaps, but I doubt it would make much of a practical difference in gameplay.

One should be able to "feel" how much they carry if movement disabling fatigue heavily depends on it, IMO this is essential for gameplay.

[Tonci87 163]

IMO fatigue should be a clickable difficulty setting in the game difficulty settings an NOT forced on us players. Think that would definatly settle some of the masses, or have it a server side setting like the some of the others for VON map voting etc.

Dude every Mission maker can easily disable fatigue.....

[machineabuse 11]

I've said it before, but I really think this is the realm of mods.

Having a lot of options to change gameplay/trying to please multiple camps may sound like a good idea, but it usually leads to an unfocused game and confused players. I believe that, more than anything else, this would make it very difficult to get a feel for the fatigue system and your avatar's capabilities (especially without a stamina bar).

Players have been modding in fatigue systems with harsher penalties for years. Why shouldn't it go the other way, too

I digress from the thread topic to assert this but given the history of the ArmA/Flashpoint franchise I believe your point is largely invalid. We are after all talking about a franchise that sits the fence between allowing things like first and 3rd person perspective, various rules regarding visibility of units on the map and also a whole 3rd person high command interface. "Unfocused and confused" you say?

Now personally, I and the group I play with don't use any of that but I appreciate that the diversity that is possible to represent a wide playership. What is in our collective interest is that BI makes money. If a more forgiving stamina system allows inroads for new players (most of which you or I will never play with so why worry about them "watering down" our experience?) I have no problems with that.

For mods, I am good with that. At point of sale to new players? Read paragraph 2.

[twisted 128]

I digress from the thread topic to assert this but given the history of the ArmA/Flashpoint franchise I believe your point is largely invalid. We are after all talking about a franchise that sits the fence between allowing things like first and 3rd person perspective, various rules regarding visibility of units on the map and also a whole 3rd person high command interface. "Unfocused and confused" you say?

Now personally, I and the group I play with don't use any of that but I appreciate that the diversity that is possible to represent a wide playership. What is in our collective interest is that BI makes money. If a more forgiving stamina system allows inroads for new players (most of which you or I will never play with so why worry about them "watering down" our experience?) I have no problems with that.

For mods, I am good with that. At point of sale to new players? Read paragraph 2.

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/enableFatigue

that command disables fatigue.

it is up to the mission maker.

it is there already.

but currently the core of fatigue is quite good and its VERY forgiving right now. BIS have incorporated a real addition to tactical and logistical awareness in teh geame. and there is an alternative for missionmakers to use. if your favourite mission doesnt have it in, then talk to the missionmakers perhaps to use that single line to give all the run and gun you can want (i like a bit of run and gun myself like breaking point but dont want to see fatigue system as a whole dulled down due to that.)

[DancZer 65]

The fatigue system force you to play like a soldier and not like a humanoid terminator. Why you defend your position your fatigue decrease, when decreased you can move to another position. Try to Adapt guys and you will Win.

[roshnak 41]

One should be able to "feel" how much they carry if movement disabling fatigue heavily depends on it, IMO this is essential for gameplay.

I actually hadn't considered that aspect. I don't know if it's essential, given that we have a weight indicator in our inventory, but I can certainly see how it could provide valuable feedback and awareness of weight levels.

I digress from the thread topic to assert this but given the history of the ArmA/Flashpoint franchise I believe your point is largely invalid. We are after all talking about a franchise that sits the fence between allowing things like first and 3rd person perspective, various rules regarding visibility of units on the map and also a whole 3rd person high command interface. "Unfocused and confused" you say?

Now personally, I and the group I play with don't use any of that but I appreciate that the diversity that is possible to represent a wide playership. What is in our collective interest is that BI makes money. If a more forgiving stamina system allows inroads for new players (most of which you or I will never play with so why worry about them "watering down" our experience?) I have no problems with that.

For mods, I am good with that. At point of sale to new players? Read paragraph 2.

I have to say that my issues with this approach have less to do with "watering down the experience" than with "muddying" it.

Regarding fatigue, the current system requires players to practice, experiment, and get a "feel" for their avatars' capabilities, especially since the game currently lacks clear, distince feedback on fatigue levels. Having scalable fatigue settings would exacerbate this issue. It is difficult to get a good handle on what exactly you can get away with when what you can get away with changes from server to server. I feel that this sort of situation is detrimental to people learning the game. We are already getting a lot of frustration from players who don't understand the fatigue system as it is. This kind of thing would not make it any more clear.

I have plenty of other reasons to be against this strategy, but you're right, and that is getting into off-topic territory.

[giorgygr 61]

I was away from ARMA 3 for some months.

Yesterday i was surprised (terrified) to see the *new system.

I REALLY DON'T like it and it will eliminate the (already dead) possibility for competitive PvP fast gameplay.

Minimize the (totally absurd) effects -90% and it will probably be playable..maybe.

Edited September 15, 2014 by GiorgyGR

[Tonci87 163]

I was away from ARMA 3 for some months.

Yesterday i was surprised (terrified) to see the *new system.

I REALLY DON'T like it and it will eliminate the (already dead) possibility for competitive PvP fast gameplay.

Minimize the (totally absurd) effects -90% and it will probably be playable..maybe.

Competitive fast gameplay is still OK, just don´t take so much shit with you!

If you really have so huge problems with the system the ask the maker of that competitive fast mission to disable fatigue.

[ratszo 17]

Competitive fast gameplay is still OK, just don´t take so much shit with you!

Light infantry finally have a role in game. --pack mules to the rear.

[bigpickle 0]

The fatigue system force you to play like a soldier

Hahaha

[St. Jimmy 272]

I was away from ARMA 3 for some months.

Yesterday i was surprised (terrified) to see the *new system.

I REALLY DON'T like it and it will eliminate the (already dead) possibility for competitive PvP fast gameplay.

Minimize the (totally absurd) effects -90% and it will probably be playable..maybe.

Tactical Battlefield is very playable with the current fatigue system. I very rarely see myself over fatigue myself even in PvP. Lower the weapon and don't use that sprint everywhere...

Also default loadouts got huge amount of stuff and you can lighten yourself. But try some guerrilla loadout with the arsenal: 6 mags, rifle, couple grenades, light clothes and vest that can just take the stuff and see the difference.

Edited September 15, 2014 by St. Jimmy

[giorgygr 61]

Seriously...

=As i already said=..i was away for some months.

The team asked me for a fast PvP mission so..i throw a CTF by Murcielago (old version tho..)

I can't stress it enough..after 10 meters i felt like i was on a crazed-maniac horse..while i was on drugs and alcohol altogether...trying with all my powers to shoot an enemy 20 meters away!!!! (without success of course)

Maybe it was the mission (default 10+ mags and i m not sure what vests soldiers wearing).

If this fatigue AND sway can be eradicate...ehm..disabled..ok.

Don't get me wrong.When i want simulation i reach the 100%-but fast *traditional PvP is totally different matter..

[chortles 263]

.i throw a CTF by Murcielago (old version tho..)

There is probably​ the explanation/answer right there, I'm afraid.

[froggyluv 2136]

Somethings wrong on your end bud, 10m does not have that effect on 300lb AT man with a satchel in each pocket.