Fatigue Feedback (dev branch)

[chortles 263]

BIS, what is planned about fatigue yet? Thanks.

To be quite honest, I wouldn't be surprised if all the fatigue talk got "sent to the back of the line" under the weight of other issues like personal protection, content, the campaign, and the infamous "MP frame rate/optimization/performance"...

[-Coulum- 35]

To be quite honest, I wouldn't be surprised if all the fatigue talk got "sent to the back of the line" under the weight of other issues like personal protection, content, the campaign, and the infamous "MP frame rate/optimization/performance"...

My thoughts exactly.

It's not that simple. While the new handling method is a great improvement to weapons that should feel responsive in your hands, it also feels that certain heavy weapons are too easy to control. Heavy MG's and long barreled rifles feel no different than a "Vermin" in the game. I believe adding some control over some sort of unwieldiness (not necessarily the kind that was in Arma 2) in the configs of the weapons would make them feel much better. Especially now that weapon length no longer factors in the collision geometry.

Imagine this. Right now you have a bunch of MX variants that do not feel any different. So imagine if the baseline MX was "normal" handling, MXC was really controllable, "twitch" rifle, if you will. While the MXM, due to it's size, had slight sluggishness. And then maybe attachments could also affect it, so if you added a silencer to the default MX, the silencer would give it some slight sluggishness, maybe to the level of the MXM. Tacking on a huge TWS scope would make even MXC feel bad, but you get an almost cheat level of thermal detection with it, so it would be ok.

On the other hand, GM6 would be even more sluggish than MXM. This way, the weapons have some sort of purpose. GM6's sluggishness wouldn't really affect it any as you don't need it to be twitchy as you'll be sniping from afar, and you don't need to turn on a dime and you'd be penalised in CQB so you have more reason to draw your super controllable handgun and trade off the instakill potential of GM6.

Right now, a simple toggle to the GM6 SOS backup sights makes you a death machine as long as you can deal with recoil and there is no reason to prefer a handful of SMG's in the game if you have a choice between an SMG and a 200 round MG for CQB.

Arma 2's horrid aiming control made all the weapons feel unwieldy and CQB was poor even when equipped properly, while Arma 3 aiming controls make all weapons feel like micro SMG's and CQB feels good even with the weapons that logically wouldn't. There should be some variance in the way weapons control. I really don't see a reason to twitch turn around with MG's and snipers, especially if you are doing what they are designed to do.

The main problem with Arma 2's turning mechanism was that it was inconsistent. If a 20cm mouse drag with M4 in Arma 2 always rotated you the same amount, and a 20cm mouse drag with an M107 rotated you the same amount, but lower than an M4, you wouldn't see as many people complaining. From what I can tell consistency is the key, not the speed.

Yeah pretty much this. I doubt anyone who plays arma 3 wants arma 2 movement back. But that doesn't mean that arma 3 movement can't use some improvement and limitations. And it bugs the hell out of me when people jump to the conclusion that those who want a bit of change, want to fully revert back to arma 2 clunkyness.

ArmA 3 isn't an arcade game nor is the movement any more "arcade" than in ArmA 2. There is nothing to fix in ArmA 3.

Really?

Its unfortunate, but many arcade games do have more realistic mechanics than this.

[chortles 263]

My thoughts exactly.

As you said in the AI thread "I really hope bis see the positive results of this and try to recreate it, in the far future, when they are able to try and improve the ai behaviour. Unfortunately probably not any time soon. They already have a lot on their plate." Swap out "AI" with "fatigue", and I can see the same dynamic...

Although, an interesting thing to me was that a VBS3 video that showed the 'game HUD' showed the Fatigue level with a bar meter... in the same way that Arma 3 has a stance indicator, a weapon mode/ammo count HUD, etc.

And it bugs the hell out of me when people jump to the conclusion that those who want a bit of change, want to fully revert back to arma 2 clunkyness.

I disagree because Bouben's post was ripe for being interpreted that way, so I found it perfectly appropriate for both Bigpickle and Xendance to respond as they did.

[Smurf 12]

Little of cross-posting here with the protection thread, the slower animations thing that was used for fatigue could be also tied to pieces of gear?

[wipman 1]

Hi, my M4s pack for the ArmA2 had a bit of this, the ones that had a M203, the AN-PEQ and all the toys were heavyer than the "naked" versions that were lighter than this ones, and i'd felt very comfy with this... depending on the mission i wasn't going for the "toyz 'R' ass" variants but for the flat ones, that offered a better reaction time on the close distances; IMO that's how the default weapons should behave, just try to aquire a target fast with a MG3 from the shoulder and compare your reaction time and feeling with an AR, a carbine or even a 6Kg rifle. That behaviour (the weight of the weapons and their toys) should be a default in the game, i think. Let's C ya

[Bouben 3]

Guys,

I was talking about fatigue system (weight system), not about Arma 2 movement/animation system (hence the thread I used).

I want inertia and weapon collisions (as ProGamer correctly stated).

I want what was in that Arma 3 dev patch a few months ago (the last one with fatigue system enabled) before it was taken back "temporally". That is the clunkiness I was talking about. The game is so boring without it and has lost some uniqueness this way. A big part of certain tension in firefights is gone with it.

Don't panic. Read in what thread you are next time. Thanks.

PS: I also want turn limits (this is not fatigue related of course).

Edited January 20, 2014 by Bouben

[goldenfiver 11]

Little of cross-posting here with the protection thread, the slower animations thing that was used for fatigue could be also tied to pieces of gear?

Is it still on the dev branch or was it removed?

[Polygon 11]

Honestly? Ballistics (muzzle-climb, etc.) and fatigue calculations are fucked up nicely. Need corrections asap. I'm tired of hearing Kerry constantly moaning in A3 campaign as an old granny (FPP).

[Kerc Kasha 102]

Will we be seeing the fatigue system that showed up just before adapt came out any time soon? Even in its WIP state it was much better than the current system

[lao fei mao 21]

I also want to know why the fatigue system has been suspended so long time, we all expect its return.

[Heneral 10]

More interesting, why we get Zeus before we get fatigue, resting, etc.

[zimms 22]

Because different people worked on it.

[novahot 1]

Because different people worked on it.

I'd stick with your answer, but Moricky is not just anybody at BI. I'm happy with Zeus and looking forward to it but he is a Senior Developer and there is tons of other things that shoud be taken care of.

[xendance 3]

Arm chair developers, assemble!

[St. Jimmy 272]

I hope BIS haven't dumped this in trash bin. I really wait when this will come back again because this is one of my favoyrite features.

[Bouben 3]

I cannot wait for the fatigue system to come back. It was game-changing.

[Maxzy 12]

I cannot wait for the fatigue system to come back. It was game-changing.

I'm playing campaign right now and I can tell you that soldier with rocket launcher and a couple of missiles in backpack become tired much faster than soldier with empty rocket launcher. Soldier with empty rocket launcher and a rifle become tired much faster than soldier with only a rifle. And I didn't check it specifically but I got the impression that soldier that goes uphill become tired much faster than soldier that goes horizontally. So I don't know exactly what system you're waiting to come back, could you elaborate?

[byku 13]

...

It was a system that influenced also standard speed(you were simply slower that other not tired soldiers), reloading speed and some other factors. It was AWESOME. I really needed to stop from time to time and "take a breath".

[Smurf 12]

Yep, current system isn't bad but that was better.

[Maxzy 12]

It was a system that influenced also standard speed(you were simply slower that other not tired soldiers), reloading speed and some other factors. It was AWESOME. I really needed to stop from time to time and "take a breath".

Oh. Was it only on dev branch? As for me, current system is good enough, but I wouldn't mind to try that one too. But only if AI is affected by it too. Otherwise it will be disastrous =).

[MavericK96 0]

Yeah, IIRC it popped up on dev branch for a few versions and then was removed ("temporarily") due to issues. This was quite some time ago, though.

[Bouben 3]

Oh. Was it only on dev branch? As for me, current system is good enough, but I wouldn't mind to try that one too. But only if AI is affected by it too. Otherwise it will be disastrous =).

AI was influenced. It worked very well gameplay-wise. It really punished overloading your character so you were punished even just by the weight of you equipment itself and not only by running around. Current system is not punishing at all. Sprinting is almost useless (not really difference between speed of normal run) and so is punishing sprinting.

There were problems with slower animations but otherwise it was amazing. Cannot wait to have it back fixed. It had this amazing OFP feeling of movement under difficult conditions (not the bad-control-of-character one).

Edited April 18, 2014 by Bouben

[Alwarren 2767]

AI was influenced. It worked very well gameplay-wise. It really punished overloading your character so you were punished even just by the weight of you equipment itself and not only by running around. Current system is not punishing at all. Sprinting is almost useless (not really difference between speed of normal run) and so is punishing sprinting.

There were problems with slower animations but otherwise it was amazing. Cannot wait to have it back fixed. It had this amazing OFP feeling of movement under difficult conditions (not the bad-control-of-character one).

Agreed, I really liked the fact that if you were muling around half a dozen rockets, you couldn't even sprint for three steps... I seriously hope it makes it back.

[-Coulum- 35]

Yep it was definitely one of "those features" that made arma 3 stand out from the pervious iterations of the game. I think what they had was pretty awesome on dev. Devs said it wasn't up to par with what they wanted though. I hope that means they want to add even more rather than there was issues under the hood.

I noticed in one of the recent dev updates there was this change:

• Aiming-related breathing refactored and prepared for further changes
  

Could this possibly be in preparation for fatigue related changes...?

[chortles 263]

It could have been that what they wanted at the time had to wait on some other changes that took until now to implement; DnA's already confirmed that fatigue system-related tweaks (but "not overhaul") are being worked on, so at the very least the current state isn't the intended final state.