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Question: is running while "kneeling" more exhausting than running while "standing"/upright?

And number two: am I the only one that thinks running while "standing" should be notably faster than that "kneeling"-run (due to smaller steps)? I can't really tell if I'm indeed faster with upright posture, so is there actually a difference? So far I think kneel-running is a tad bit too fast. Anyone else?

I agree.You don't see soldiers kneel running as fast and as far as in arma.I would appreciate either shorter steps

or fatigue elements (try kneel run for a minute around!) : )

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Sorry? You initially asked:

Answer is: yes, it's realistic.

I can't get you now, are you saying that "while naked" you rest much faster, or is it "not that different"?

Sorry for poor wording. I meant that in real life the difference in the speed of recovery isn't that big between heavy and light gear.

Currently in the game you recover about 5 times faster if you're lying down naked than with very heavy load.

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Question: is running while "kneeling" more exhausting than running while "standing"/upright?

IRL: Yes, very much :D

Ingame: I'm pretty sure it is.

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IRL: Yes, very much :D

Ingame: I'm pretty sure it is.

Some results after a quick test on rate of exhaustion in different movement modes:

The most typical mode, jogging with raised gun, will be the base line and given the factor of 1.0.

[table=width: 270, class: grid]

[tr]

[td]Jogging, gun lowered[/td]

[td]0.6[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Jogging, gun raised[/td]

[td]1.0[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Crouch jogging, gun lowered[/td]

[td]1.0[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Crouch jogging, gun raised[/td]

[td]1.4[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]standing up, combat pace[/td]

[td]1.5[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]crouching, combat pace[/td]

[td]2.0[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]standing sprint[/td]

[td]3.3[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]normal crawling[/td]

[td]3.4[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]crouch sprint[/td]

[td]4.0[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]fast crawling[/td]

[td]4.6[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

I'm sure there are different rates, like with launchers and sidearms, adjusted stances etc. And perhaps these values are correct only with the certain load level I tested with, which was a little heavier than basic rifleman gear.

Conclusion: Woah, dude! Look how many ways to move we have!:D

Edited by Greenfist

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Conclusion: Woah, dude! Look how many ways to move we have!:D

Yes, and that's without the lowest speed, walking :D

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Yes, and that's without the lowest speed, walking :D

And rolling! I left out walking on purpose because it has very little effect in increasing the fatigue level. It's relevant only when catching your breath.

edit. I guess I should have included the rolling, because it's the fastest way to get totally exhausted, at least with stock loadouts.

Running up a steep hill with a heavy gear like on explosive specialist will reach max fatigue level in 30-40 seconds. Rolling does it in 15.

Surprisingly, rolling downhill isn't any lighter. :D

Edited by Greenfist

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Yes, and that's without the lowest speed, walking :D

And without combat pace gun lowered, although that one looks horrible (like walking just sped up)

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Some results after a quick test on rate of exhaustion in different movement modes:

The most typical mode, jogging with raised gun, will be the base line and given the factor of 1.0.

Say, this table is quite useful. You should post it on /r/arma or something. I think many people would find it interesting!

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Ahhh, very awesome.

:icon_eek:

This whole fatigue/loadout/movement type stuff turns out to be a wonderful, and rather deep (at least in combinatorial complexity), element. That's really a neat developement (yet I stay with my opinion that kneel-running is a bit too fast - or upright-running a bit too slow. But the effects with respect to fatigue seem about right, hu?).

P.S. On a similar note; isn't it about time for vehicles (just wheeled/on tracks for a start) to have at least gears and manual gear shifting? Now that "driving" a human is that much more complex (in comparison). How about a Cars/Trucks/Tanks-DLC? ;)

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They do have gears, it's just that there is no option for manual gear changing.

Actually, the vehicles have a lot of fun stuff in the configs. They have proper gear ratios, torque curves, idle RPM, redline RPM, traction control... You name it! :D

And that was just the drivetrain. There is just as much stuff for the chassis, like spring rates, anti roll bar stiffness spring travel blablabla...

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it's just that there is no option for manual gear changing.

Well, but that's the crucial/fun part. Only when you can make errors and easily fuck up (e.g. wrong/too high gear for too much of a gradient) things get fun and interesting. Good old "easy to learn, but hard to master" applies here too. Just having a speed pedal and a steering wheel somehow just doesn't cut it - especially with the more heavy vehicles.

Ha, and on a side note: if driving a truck would be harder/more challenging for the player, maybe they/we'd have more patience with AI-drivers. :p

And - to come back on-topic - same applies to fatigue with respect to loadout (granted, the comparison with manual gear shifting limps a little...). A player with light loadout will have a considerable advantage over your typical sniper/mg and a super large backpack and a rocket launcher and what not-carrying player (i.e. again: you can easily fuck up with your choices now). And that's fantastic gameplay right there. :D

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While we are at it, why don't we throw in some moore goodies in that request? Ability to lock differential, switch traction control on and off, switch all wheel drive on and off etc.... :D

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Well, yes. Of course!

Thinking about it, that stuff really should have been included in the Carts-DLC.

:wave:

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Fire from vehicles is planned for Helicopters DLC.

No word on weapon resting, but there are mods that do that.

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Stable branch is unplayable in PVP game types with these changes. You cannot move stop and shoot at normal ranges, its made the game frustrating. The person camping always has 0 sway and is able to take out your full squad, while you basically jumping on your gun to try stop it golf swinging around your screen.

Co-op adds to effect of war, but in PVP game types it's honestly game breaking. Thier comes a point where your going to have to stop messing with the core of a game and start focusing on things people what fixing. Like performance.

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Performance is one of those things that have been greatly improved.

Anyway... The sway was totally overhauled in todays devbranch update. What you see in stable is not representative of what the next patch is going to be like at all.

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Stable branch is unplayable in PVP game types with these changes.

...

Co-op adds to effect of war, but in PVP game types it's honestly game breaking.

Sigh.. No it is not, adapt your play style accordingly.

Thier comes a point where your going to have to stop messing with the core of a game and start focusing on things people what fixing. Like performance.

That point would be the point when the game is perfect and/or at the end of its lifespan, and the game will not be there in years.

Also, once again, performance has come a long way since the beginning, and it's an ongoing task not affected by these tweaks.

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Stable branch is unplayable in PVP game types with these changes. You cannot move stop and shoot at normal ranges, its made the game frustrating. The person camping always has 0 sway and is able to take out your full squad, while you basically jumping on your gun to try stop it golf swinging around your screen.

Co-op adds to effect of war, but in PVP game types it's honestly game breaking. Thier comes a point where your going to have to stop messing with the core of a game and start focusing on things people what fixing. Like performance.

Adjust your playstyle, Move from cover to cover while someone surpresses the shooter, never run out into the open, etc.

Finally this game is getting some much needed realism.

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I would agree, both in terms of fatigue being a good thing (I like the new system) and on performance, when I first got the game (Early January) the first mission of Survive was unplayable the second I entered the woods, it's significantly better now and if anything my graphics settings have got turned up slightly.

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Stable branch is unplayable in PVP game types with these changes. You cannot move stop and shoot at normal ranges, its made the game frustrating. Like performance.

The game isn't trying to be super-"balanced" for arcade gamer that want to run around and shoot stuff like in battleduty.

ArmA is trying to be a simulation.

Sprint or even just run a few hundred meters "in reality" and notice how much fun you have to even just focus something with your two thumps.

@BIS:

I really welcome the changes! :)

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I have not read a single statement saying that the new fatigue mechanism affects the AI as well. I hope that is the case ?

-OP

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I have not read a single statement saying that the new fatigue mechanism affects the AI as well. I hope that is the case ?

-OP

I think it does, certainly they do the slow motion running when they are fatigued.

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Can the new system be turned off? :) You are really going to screw the game this time. The point is, you can barely fight the AI back as it is now, imagine without being able to carry extra equipment, more weapon sway, slower movements, and less sprinting capability... Jesus. Some things should not be simulated, becasue they can't be simulated properly with a mouse, a keyboard, and monitor. Your obviously thinking about PvP, and leaving everyone else behind.

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