Disapointed with the full release content

[WalkerDown 1]

Except that, again, there is no legal distinction between beta and final software, so a developer can decide to call their software final (and legally sell it as such) at any time.

Not on Steam... in fact to avoid any trouble like this, they launched the "Early Access" (that ArmA3 have adopted): you cannot move from alpha/beta to gold/retail by only changing the name, you must provide a finished product. If your product is still in beta, then you stay within the "Early Access" program. It's not that you're going be arrested... :) ...with "legal", I mean that I'm legally entitled to have my money back if you deceive me with false claims (trying to sell your product as finished, while you admit that it still beta).

[chortles 263]

"You must provide a finished product"? Fast chance of anyone qualifying. :rolleyes: I think MadDogX alluded to that in the post that you quoted, no less...

[maddogx 13]

Not on Steam... in fact to avoid any trouble like this, they launched the "Early Access" (that ArmA3 have adopted): you cannot move from alpha/beta to gold/retail by only changing the name, you must provide a finished product. If your product is still in beta, then you stay within the "Early Access" program. It's not that you're going be arrested... :) ...with "legal", I mean that I'm legally entitled to have my money back if you deceive me with false claims (trying to sell your product as finished, while you admit that it still beta).

Okay, now we seem to be re-defining the word "legal" and discussing Valve's Steam store policies, so we're officially drifting way off topic. Suffice to say, if Valve had any reason to veto the game's "gold" release on September 12th, they would have done so and we would probably know about it by now.

Time to return to the actual topic.

[Azzur33 1]

I wonder have I ever played a "finished" game ...

Some companies give you few patches and then forget you.

I never felt that was the case with OFP/AA/A2(+OA).

We got years of Free Further Development (that we didn't actually Need to make the games playable after the release, but more enjoyable for sure), and were happy about it too.

The word "fraud" connected to BIS feels like an insult.

[WalkerDown 1]

Okay, now we seem to be re-defining the word "legal" and discussing Valve's Steam store policies, so we're officially drifting way off topic. Suffice to say, if Valve had any reason to veto the game's "gold" release on September 12th, they would have done so and we would probably know about it by now.

Time to return to the actual topic.

Sure, one thing: I never said that this game won't be finished.. this all born by replying to who were saying that, even after the launch, the game would be in "beta".. that is false. The game will be gold (with no contents, bugged, whatever.. but gold).

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------

I wonder have I ever played a "finished" game ...

Some companies give you few patches and then forget you.

I never felt that was the case with OFP/AA/A2(+OA).

We got years of Free Further Development (that we didn't actually Need to make the games playable after the release, but more enjoyable for sure), and were happy about it too.

The word "fraud" connected to BIS feels like an insult.

One thing is bugged (and so patched) .. one thing is beta (knowing that the game is not finished, but deciding to sell it anyway to "cash in").

[thr0tt 12]

Finished game comments surely need to wait till after Thursday then show your disappointment, sniffle.

[mistyronin 1181]

Sure, one thing: I never said that this game won't be finished.. this all born by replying to who were saying that, even after the launch, the game would be in "beta".. that is false. The game will be gold (with no contents, bugged, whatever.. but gold).

To me it's a matter of words. I won't call it gold until all the content intended in it will be released ( read all the campaign episodes ). BTW the designation beta, is more related to the design road-map than to the users experience.

The decision to release the game without some intended content like the campaign ( that's gonna be added later for free ), can be controversial, but again the users are gonna decide if its a worth buy or not.

It has been announced in the official website and also in all the gaming media, so everyone is informed.

[daze23 1]

they'll definitely have to make it clear on the Steam store page that the campaign is coming later. it's hard to use any past examples to figure out how this is going to work out. we'll see soon enough I guess

[WalkerDown 1]

The decision to release the game without some intended content like the campaign ( that's gonna be added later for free ), can be controversial, but again the users are gonna decide if its a worth buy or not.

It has been announced in the official website and also in all the gaming media, so everyone is informed.

For me it's like releasing a game advertising its multi-player but then releasing it without... because it will be "added later". Doesn't make sense IMO, why you're going to release it then? You're desperately looking for money? I believe the real reason is that there's really nothing that will come after... this is the game and this will remains. If you see anything else, they will be PAID DLC.

[Azzur33 1]

One thing is bugged (and so patched) .. one thing is beta (knowing that the game is not finished, but deciding to sell it anyway to "cash in").

As I said, Development, not just bugfixing.

A2 did evolve quite a bit, so I guess that was a "beta" that I bought then, years ago. But I'm glad I bought it, and I'm glad it did evolve.

"(knowing that the game is not finished, but deciding to sell it anyway to "cash in")" still doesn't sound like BIS.

[OrLoK 20]

For me it's like releasing a game advertising its multi-player but then releasing it without... because it will be "added later". Doesn't make sense IMO, why you're going to release it then? You're desperately looking for money? I believe the real reason is that there's really nothing that will come after... this is the game and this will remains. If you see anything else, they will be PAID DLC.

Hello there

Many games have been released in the past and added coop/multiplayer etc in later patches.

No fraud, no conspiracy, no money grab.

Wait and see what happens before we start throwing accusations around. It is good to be wary and to question things, but I personally think you're taking it a little too far IMHO.

Rgds

LoK

[dale0404 5]

For me it's like releasing a game advertising its multi-player but then releasing it without... because it will be "added later". Doesn't make sense IMO, why you're going to release it then? You're desperately looking for money? I believe the real reason is that there's really nothing that will come after... this is the game and this will remains. If you see anything else, they will be PAID DLC.

Is that your opinion or do you have some source of information that we are not privy to? And it has been stated numerous times by numerous devs that A3 will be supported for a long time to come just like A2 and A1 and OFP. And do not forget the "cool stuff" that we have been promised. And no, this is not paid DLC.

[mistyronin 1181]

For me it's like releasing a game advertising its multi-player but then releasing it without... because it will be "added later". Doesn't make sense IMO, why you're going to release it then? You're desperately looking for money? I believe the real reason is that there's really nothing that will come after... this is the game and this will remains. If you see anything else, they will be PAID DLC.

Well, I've been playing their games for more than ten years, and until this point BI has never done that (in fact they have surprised me some times with addition of free stuff ). If they say that due to whatever problems they need to release the campaign later ( and they are even saying that with it will come some more stuff ). Why should I don't trust them? They have already stated that it's gonna be for free, as it was something intended in the release.

BTW most of the people have already bought the game in its Alpha and Beta stages, and the ones that not, have the information in hand. So I don't think it's any fraud, lie, or strange idea to make themselves rich.

Could it be that they need money to keep with the development? I don't know, its a possibility, but even with that, it would only make everyone happy, as what we want is to have all the features. The problem would be if they wouldn't have money to keep with it...

[Zatan13th 10]

Hello there

I doubt that DAYZ development was in anyway counterproductive to releasing A3.

Who knows what developments made for DAYZ might make it into A3 in the possible future and visa versa. Remember though that DAYZ is more than a simple mod. Vast amounts of the engine have been reworked, so new features available in DAYZ may not be transferable.

I also think folk need to stop blaming DAYZ for all the ill's in the world. It's not evil. Its just a mod/SA and has as much or little worth as any other mod.

Rgds

LoK

Agree, even now, DayZ SA has a lot more "infantry focused" and "simulation" than A3.

[WalkerDown 1]

Well, I've been playing their games for more than ten years

Welcome aboard.

and until this point BI has never done that

I agree.. until DayZ. :)

[sic-disaster 311]

Yeah, copy&paste my ass. We've been playing with the same old content since the release of OFP in 2001, just touched up for each new release. I could draw you a map of almost every enterable building in ArmA 2 because I've been walking around in them for over a decade, and I've been shooting M16 and AK variations during all that time too.

But for ArmA 3, everything is FRESH. I'm hardpressed to find a single item or object that I've seen before. Maybe the butterflies. Everything else is brand spanking new. If they had simply touched up all of the ArmA 2/OA content I wouldn't have been nearly as interested in ArmA 3 as I am.

I too have noticed that some of the stuff in ArmA 3 has been reused, like turrets etc. And while I think that is a shame, it is nowhere near game-breaking. Let's all remember too that the infantry is at the core of the experience. ArmA is not a vehicle simulator or an airplane simulator. They are there to support the infantry and by no means should be the main attraction of the game. There are other games and sims out there that do these vehicles much better. As long as I can tell one vehicle apart from the other (which I can, I'm sure you can too if you wanted to try), that is well enough. That's not to say it's ok and the practice should be continued in the future however! I'm sure though it's just a matter of time running out.

[jbryan 3]

Gaming industry is screwed I do believe... This new generation and such, the DLC and such. I remember back in the day, there were no DLC, it was expansions, which added more content, more than just three maps and two weapons. It is sad to see, where the gaming industry had went nowadays. Seem to take the lazy way on everything. They did the same with BF3, more than likely the same with BF4 and so on. The only producer that has yet to disappoint me is Rockstar. Let's hope GTA V lives up to it's word.

[rc223 10]

Gaming industry is screwed I do believe... This new generation and such, the DLC and such. I remember back in the day, there were no DLC, it was expansions, which added more content, more than just three maps and two weapons. It is sad to see, where the gaming industry had went nowadays. Seem to take the lazy way on everything. They did the same with BF3, more than likely the same with BF4 and so on. The only producer that has yet to disappoint me is Rockstar. Let's hope GTA V lives up to it's word.

Back in the day making content took less effort than it does now. Models, physics etc. are a lot more complicated and detailed than they were before so making a new map or a weapon model takes a lot more time and effort.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Gaming industry is screwed I do believe... This new generation and such, the DLC and such. I remember back in the day, there were no DLC, it was expansions, which added more content, more than just three maps and two weapons. It is sad to see, where the gaming industry had went nowadays. Seem to take the lazy way on everything. They did the same with BF3, more than likely the same with BF4 and so on. The only producer that has yet to disappoint me is Rockstar. Let's hope GTA V lives up to it's word.

Well Bohemia hasn't took that direction yet. At least in A2 DLC's models were free with low textures and OA was a nice expansion pack. Also MP got HUGE boost in 1.60 patch and it was finally playable.

[BL1P 35]

:mad:I WANT MORE TOYS:mad: fuck the gameplay, performance and bug fixes.

O wait a sec... I think I or the OP got it backwards :)

[Tyl3r99 41]

:mad:I WANT MORE TOYS:mad: fuck the gameplay, performance and bug fixes.

O wait a sec... I think I or the OP got it backwards :)

Love this post

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:36 ----------

I also think the NATO weapon (rifleman etc) looks like its made

Out of plastic? Or is it me?

I hope the major issues are fixed before the official release

[Tacti-Cool 10]

Love this post

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:36 ----------

I also think the NATO weapon (rifleman etc) looks like its made

Out of plastic? Or is it me?

I hope the major issues are fixed before the official release

They look like a polymer. I feel like if you dropped one theyd break

[mistyronin 1181]

[/color]I also think the NATO weapon (rifleman etc) looks like its made

Out of plastic? Or is it me?

I think it's some kind of composite to make it cheap, light but resistant at the same time, like the one in the H&K 36.

[progamer 14]

They look like a polymer. I feel like if you dropped one theyd break

They look like they are painted for camouflage or created in a 3D printer. :)

[pharoah 65]

The current dev build is 0.77something....release is in 2 or so days....is the release version going to go up to 1.0...and if so, what will come in between .077 and 1.0?