AI Discussion (dev branch)

[Tyl3r99 41]

will AI always only walk inside of buildings?

[MadocComadrin 12]

With all the AI changes, is there any intention to rework the Infantry Showcase to make it more playable?

[klamacz 448]

With all the AI changes, is there any intention to rework the Infantry Showcase to make it more playable?

could you, please, be more specific, what's exactly not-playable?

[HKFlash 9]

could you, please, be more specific, what's exactly not-playable?

I agree.

[GranolaBar 10]

could you, please, be more specific, what's exactly not-playable?

In my case : I think AI could not enter and follow a player in a airport tower. (i test it).

Also, i see a group (Elite and skill = 1) on airfield. I"m enter in a building in front of the ennemy and close the door. The ennemy don't follow me, only one soldier of the ennemy group open the door and do no enter really in the building to show if i'm in or not.

Same in house of Agia Marina, if we are on the floor, AI don't verify if you are here or not.

[MadocComadrin 12]

could you, please, be more specific, what's exactly not-playable?

Consistently, most if not all of the friendly AI is shot and killed at the second contact--often by the autorifleman, no matter how well you do yourself. The issue is that the squad is forced to move into a poor position and is outnumbered. This has been brought up before, but it's gotten worse as the AI has gotten better. (AI supression both giving and taking would help here). I have my enemy ai set to .75 and my friendly at .85. If any survive that encounter, the encounter in the town will often take out the rest, as you're still in a poor (but somewhat better) position--a better spot would be moving to the "overwatch hill" from the Command showcase.

A side note about the showcase, I understand Bravo is pinned down, but once Alpha reaches the town, shouldn't they join the fight instead of sit there inside the building? Or at least fire from the building if it would be too difficult to direct them out of it?

[dmarkwick 261]

In my case : I think AI could not enter and follow a player in a airport tower. (i test it).

Also, i see a group (Elite and skill = 1) on airfield. I"m enter in a building in front of the ennemy and close the door. The ennemy don't follow me, only one soldier of the ennemy group open the door and do no enter really in the building to show if i'm in or not.

Same in house of Agia Marina, if we are on the floor, AI don't verify if you are here or not.

Using the stable build, I crawled up onto a roof in the Al-Falluja map the other night, and after several minutes I noticed that two of my squad had followed me up there.

[froggyluv 2136]

Using the stable build, I crawled up onto a roof in the Al-Falluja map the other night, and after several minutes I noticed that two of my squad had followed me up there.

Those are Takistan buildings, no? AI for some reason did seem at their best, pathfinding wise in those buildings.

[dmarkwick 261]

Those are Takistan buildings, no? AI for some reason did seem at their best, pathfinding wise in those buildings.

No not Takistan buildings, in fact I think most of them were ArmA1 buildings? (With some ArmA2 buildings also.)

[klamacz 448]

Today's changes

AI leading targets accuracy improved

All AI which uses some sort of bullets (including tank shells and grenades) are now able to lead moving targets better. This ability is still limited by weapon config (max lead speed) and skill of AI. Typical testcases are: running perpendicular to AI, evading Irfit GMG firing from 500m etc. Have fun :)

AI leading rockets improved

Accuracy of AI shooting unguided rockets was improved, now they should be able to lead moving targets whatever is the direction of movement. Please be careful though, RPG missile had some config problems last time I checked.

AI helicopter gunner aiming improved

There was a problem reported about AI gunner in Comanche or Kayman unable to hit static infantry (overshooting). This was fixed.

[dr. hladik 231]

rev 109110: AI prefer to stop and shoot, rather than running to cover, if enemy is close.

[royaltyinexile 175]

rev 109110: AI prefer to stop and shoot, rather than running to cover, if enemy is close.

Hm, I don't think this splendid work has made it out into the wilds of the dev branch yet, but it's progressing promisingly under Dr. Hladik's careful watch and QA's noble care.

The focus of the work (in collaboration with Klamacz) is upon killing the issues identified when AI are suddenly confronted with threats in CQB; involving:

• Surprise Target - Dealing with the AI spotting the player while it is already en route to cover; making the AI more likely to stop and engage; linking this decision to distance to target (will engage at close range, will prefer cover at medium-long range)
  
• Rotation Speed- increasing speed AI is able to turn; pegging this increase to accuracy, so when AI turn quickly, accuracy is lowered
  

Obviously, things need to be properly tested so we don't destroy current, desired behaviour, but it should be unleashed on dev branch if initial validation goes well.

Best,

RiE

Edited August 15, 2013 by RoyaltyinExile

[mr_centipede 31]

Thank you for your continued support.

Regarding this matter:

...[*]Surprise Target - Dealing with the AI spotting the player while it is already en route to cover; making the AI more likely to stop and engage; linking this decision to distance to target (will engage at close range, will prefer cover at medium-long range)...

If I could make a suggestion, instead of stopping, maybe it would be better if they could use the "Temporary Tactical Pace" kind of thing... but yeah, that probably in new feature category instead of bug fixing. So either way, thank you

[enex 11]

Much thanks to this change, you guys seem to be proud, and rightful!Keep on ; )

[Sniperwolf572 758]

• Rotation Speed- increasing speed AI is able to turn; pegging this increase to accuracy, so when AI turn quickly, accuracy is lowered
  

Random question: Will this change affect the turning speed of the AI when following the positions in structures? The AI currently makes really wide turns inside buildings leading to clipping through the walls on staircases and potentially clipping outside the building and falling out.

[Smurf 12]

Random question: Will this change affect the turning speed of the AI when following the positions in structures? The AI currently makes really wide turns inside buildings leading to clipping through the walls on staircases and potentially clipping outside the building and falling out.

That is related to the re-added turning method with the pivot on the gun and not in the char. It is an issue though.

After solving an issue with AI movement, new style character collisions put back in game (we are still going to work on certain visual glitches later)

[GranolaBar 10]

Random question: Will this change affect the turning speed of the AI when following the positions in structures? The AI currently makes really wide turns inside buildings leading to clipping through the walls on staircases and potentially clipping outside the building and falling out.

(LOL ! in my test)

For me, they stop, rotate one meter before the angle and run after and not use cover angle of the building. In ten minutes, only one men come in the building... In ext no problem, if we are steal in a building AI turn of it, wait, wait wait, turn, wait wait wait, and maybe a guy, only one come...

TIP : you wait, you kill, you wait you kill, you wait you kill. Ooo an AI look you in the building, AI turn in 2s to you from 2s, you kill it. 5 minutes after, an other AI come, it fire on me in move in the building and get out of the building : IM NOT DIED. I kill the AI after. I wait, i kill, i wait i kill. The building wait system ...^^

[dr. hladik 231]

Random question: Will this change affect the turning speed of the AI when following the positions in structures? The AI currently makes really wide turns inside buildings leading to clipping through the walls on staircases and potentially clipping outside the building and falling out.

yes

[Sniperwolf572 758]

yes

---------- Post added at 20:08 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

That is related to the re-added turning method with the pivot on the gun and not in the char. It is an issue though.

This behavior was in Arma 2 as well as in builds before the pivot change (

), but it does appear to have been made even more obvious and dangerous to the artificial folks, probably due to that. :D

[klamacz 448]

Random question: Will this change affect the turning speed of the AI when following the positions in structures? The AI currently makes really wide turns inside buildings leading to clipping through the walls on staircases and potentially clipping outside the building and falling out.

I just checked the airport tower on Stratis and AI had no problems with moving on staircases. Could you, please, point me to the building where you encountered the issue?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I just checked the airport tower on Stratis and AI had no problems with moving on staircases. Could you, please, point me to the building where you encountered the issue?

Sure, main culprit is the green military watch tower. I'll have a repro mission and a video of what I'm observing for you in a few minutes.

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:20 ----------

Here is the repro mission for the watch tower and the first building with staircases that I found. There are two AI with the waypoints placed, one is in front of the player, the other is in the town. The video of what I'm seeing

as soon as it's done uploading.

I can confirm that they do not clip through the airport tower but they exhibit the wide turning arc thing anyway. The reason they are not clipping is because the staircase is wide so it's not a problem but they still do turn in a wide arc. It's a general thing in the buildings in regards to the turning arc, not just the stairs, but the stairs make it really obvious. :)

[.Taffy 10]

Thank you for your continued support.

Regarding this matter:

If I could make a suggestion, instead of stopping, maybe it would be better if they could use the "Temporary Tactical Pace" kind of thing... but yeah, that probably in new feature category instead of bug fixing. So either way, thank you

+1

Have to declare my support for this. The stated improvements are very welcome and I look forward to trying them out. Fine tuned to work as Mr_Centipede described would do wonders for the flow of combat in CQC, in my opinion.

[down8 30]

Hm, I don't think this splendid work has made it out into the wilds of the dev branch yet, but it's progressing promisingly under Dr. Hladik's careful watch and QA's noble care.

The focus of the work (in collaboration with Klamacz) is upon killing the issues identified when AI are suddenly confronted with threats in CQB; involving:

• Surprise Target - Dealing with the AI spotting the player while it is already en route to cover; making the AI more likely to stop and engage; linking this decision to distance to target (will engage at close range, will prefer cover at medium-long range)
  
• Rotation Speed- increasing speed AI is able to turn; pegging this increase to accuracy, so when AI turn quickly, accuracy is lowered
  

Obviously, things need to be properly tested so we don't destroy current, desired behaviour, but it should be unleashed on dev branch if initial validation goes well.

Best,

RiE

This is great! Thank you for expand on it.

[instagoat 133]

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12806

Can any dev give any feedback on this issue? AI crew need to be taught how to repair vehicles - this would help greatly, reducing the need for many vehicles in a mission. Instead, a few that could get repaired by their crews could be used. This reflects real life: for example, in WW2 it was common to defend a broken down tank mounted or dismounted until you could get out of it in a lull and fix whatever damage was preventing you from moving on.

They also need some look into their formation following behaviour, I have to add.

It seems as if they orient their formation onto the position of the highest known thread, causing column formations especially to wave around, instead of staying in the tracks of the leader. This is true both for units on foot, and in vehicles. Otherwise the formation behaviour seems to be random at times when under threat, with vehicles bumping into each other a lot. I mostly observe this with the tracked vehicles (kamysh), however it's random and so far I´ve not yet reliably reproduced what is going on. I will make a ticket once I know more.

[klamacz 448]

Sure, main culprit is the green military watch tower. I'll have a repro mission and a video of what I'm observing for you in a few minutes.

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:20 ----------

Here is the repro mission for the watch tower and the first building with staircases that I found. There are two AI with the waypoints placed, one is in front of the player, the other is in the town. The video of what I'm seeing

as soon as it's done uploading.

I can confirm that they do not clip through the airport tower but they exhibit the wide turning arc thing anyway. The reason they are not clipping is because the staircase is wide so it's not a problem but they still do turn in a wide arc. It's a general thing in the buildings in regards to the turning arc, not just the stairs, but the stairs make it really obvious. :)

consider it fixed.