AI Discussion (dev branch)

[GranolaBar 10]

I test a little scenario :

• One west man (player) with gun and bagback.
  
• One east man (AI) without gun, only uniform.
  
• Vehicule empty : chopper and hunter.
  

The enemy show me and he move, stop, and look me (same comportment since OFP in 2001).

I put a gun on the ground, no react from the enemy.

I put all my equipment (bagpack, gun and more), no react from the enemy.

And no react to take ammo or other from vehicule.

AI need to learn how to take gun on the ground ? If AI don't have ammo with their gun, he move a little and stop, and show the player...

The easiest solution for all (AI and player), a little short combat with cut or Tazer gun. If in 2035 a civil or an soldier human can't went in the war and defend his life because he don't say how to use theses hands, it's could problematic^^. We do not have a great animation for that, but it's would be very necessary when we don't have ammo and could be very nice in buildings. (implement also the function to capture a man as jailer if the man have no gun, no cut and ammo)

The hardest solution : by default, AI must learn to take gun or ammo on the ground, on vehicule or more. And mainly : move and went steal when it look an enemy in the case if the AI don't have ammo...

____

Ok, we can use script for these actions, but in normal time, AI could be have nice reaction by default...

[Azzur33 1]

AI need to learn how to take gun on the ground

I would be nice if AI could take a weapon from the ground, weapon crate or from dead soldiers, if they somehow? lost their weapons or wasted all their ammo (and can't rearm). Now they do rearm ammo from crates, but need a human team leader to tell them to take a weapon from dead body or a crate.

But there's the amount of variables again. Which weapon to take, how far from, from who, and when, and so on.

[klamacz 448]

Hello, my beloved victims to deadly AI.

In latest dev branch update:

Worked on AI recoil control, dependent on skill

AI soldier is now able to consider and control the recoil of the weapon. This ability is dependent on the skill, less skilled soldiers will tend to control it less, where elite soldier (skill 1.0) should control it all the time.

Behaviour is clearly visible on short distance, when AI is standing and his recoil makes most of the shots to go over target's head.

Hearing (AI): speed makes a bigger difference

Now the speed of movement and fatigue (breathing effect) makes you more loud and more hearable by AI.

[inlesco 233]

Any plans on making AI factor other sound sources into its hearing ability?

At the moment, no matter if there's two/more helicopters hovering above AI's position, if its skill is 1.0, it will detect the player from behind when he closes to ~25 meters. After removing the helicopters, the detection distance stays the same.

At skill ~0, AI is unable to hear anything. All tested in the editor.

I think hearing ability should depend on what faction an AI belongs to. It's hardly believable that a trained army soldier, even if a complete "noob", wouldn't hear someone approaching at 2-3 meters. Regarding civilians, it's a different matter.

[NordKindchen 12]

A reaction like this to sound, would be better::)

Hey Chris - you have a lot of great AI videos in your channel. However it doesnt get clear if its a mod you made or if its vanilla AI. You should mention it in the video description if you used (and or made) the "smart 'ai'" mod.

Anyway: The things we see in your video are great and either they are made possible through a mod or not - this behavior is what we need for the ai

If the behavior is forced through a mod then even more since it shows that even part time community members can integrate this behavior.

Of course if you/the creator of the ai mod is a professional ai scripter I will take back my last few words;) Either way - the videos show very very nice ai featurs that are a must have.

[KeyCat 131]

Now the speed of movement and fatigue (breathing effect) makes you more loud and more hearable by AI.

Nice work! With dev-build 0.77.108906 it is now possible to sneak up on a AI sentry by slow crawling, the last ~10 m you must inch your way forward very slow else you will be detected :)

Made a new simple test mission if anyone want's to test, I replaced the rifleman with officer that don't have a helmet to make one shot kills with the silenced pistol possible (or use the "Silent Kill Simulation" with 0-0-1) when close.

http://keycat.no-ip.com/files/A3B_AI_Spider_Sense2.zip

In above mission I added another AI (E2) and noticed that if you use the silenced MX to kill the sentry to the SW (E1) with a single headshot after ~5 seconds E2 detects you even if he is quite a bit away. I have never fired a silenced gun like the MX and maybe it's louder than I think but I would expect the two buildings between us would have some effect and that you had to be much closer to hear a single shot? But the question is why does E2 not hear it when firing in the air at same distance without killing E1?

To understand what I mean do the following...

1. At mission start go prone.

2. Slow crawl to around the house corner to SW and make sure to stay out of AI's peripheral vision.

3. When you are ~10 m behind the AI kill him with one single shot in the head with the silenced MX.

4. Wait ~5 and then the trigger will trigger indicating OPFOR detected (E2) you and have knowsabout 1.5.

5. Go back to editor and delete AI sentry E1 and re-run the mission, again slow crawl to SW behind the

house and now fire one shot in the air to SW.

6. This time the trigger will not trigger at all and E2 will not know about you. It makes no sense?

Note: Do not slow crawl with the pistol in hand since for some reason you can only slow crawl when holding a gun (same in A2:OA).

/KC

Edited August 13, 2013 by KeyCat

[froggyluv 2136]

Hello, my beloved victims to deadly AI.

In latest dev branch update:

AI soldier is now able to consider and control the recoil of the weapon. This ability is dependent on the skill, less skilled soldiers will tend to control it less, where elite soldier (skill 1.0) should control it all the time.

Behaviour is clearly visible on short distance, when AI is standing and his recoil makes most of the shots to go over target's head.

Now the speed of movement and fatigue (breathing effect) makes you more loud and more hearable by AI.

Exciting times AI wise! AI can now detect heavy breathing (how avatar worthy!) - that's great but what about the command shouting? Meaning, when in anything but Stealth your guys are screaming "RELOADING! COVERING! GO!!" -that could be heard a full football field away IRL -can the AI hear this as well in relative terms?

[Dwarden 1125]

not only commands shouting, but AI also shall hear VON usage ;)

[Minoza 11]

^^Nice!

[froggyluv 2136]

not only commands shouting, but AI also shall hear VON usage ;)

That's great news :b:

[progamer 14]

not only commands shouting, but AI also shall hear VON usage ;)

Is this controlled by how loud you speak in VON? Because this could mean I can start whispering to people on the front lines adding another depth of immersion!

[Dwarden 1125]

Is this controlled by how loud you speak in VON? Because this could mean I can start whispering to people on the front lines adding another depth of immersion!

for VON it would be fine to get some basic 'range' ... (equal to direct channel VON range)

maybe detect dB and increase or decrease the range but that's bonus

[Varanon 892]

That's great news :b:

Yeah, killed us once when the only AI in the team said "Enemy, 50 m, 12 o'clock" and suddenly the whole enemy group turned towards us

[ericfr 0]

Ai can't hear any voice for the moment, only movements.

Repro place you character just behind an enemy and press 5,5.

[Tonci87 163]

for VON it would be fine to get some basic 'range' ... (equal to direct channel VON range)

maybe detect dB and increase or decrease the range but that's bonus

Would mods like, lets say ACRE be able to hook into this VON AI hearing/detection thing so that you get detected if you speak with that mod enabled?

[Windwalking 18]

Making AI seek cover after hearing gun shots from safe stance, would be fantastic if implemented. Normal people when hearing unexpected gunshots, they don't immediately look for the source, they protect themselves first. Group should seek cover immediately and not in formation.

Incase of hearing audible sound or footsteps though, they should investigate.

[maturin 12]

Making AI seek cover after hearing gun shots from safe stance, would be fantastic if implemented. Normal people when hearing unexpected gunshots, they don't immediately look for the source, they protect themselves first. Group should seek cover immediately and not in formation.

Incase of hearing audible sound or footsteps though, they should investigate.

How do you define an 'unexpected' gunship with AI logics?

Do we want columns of troops dashing for cover because they hear their friendly forces beginning an assault 800m distant, behind three ridgelines? It would cripple the operation.

That's the sort of thing that makes developing AI a lot harder than people seem to think.

I agree, however, that units under fire should seek cover first. By the way, why can't they hear sonic cracks yet?

[spamurai 3]

It would nice if the VON for commanding vehicles was removed. I know it is supposed to increase "immersion" to simulate giving the driver directions... but all it really does is encumber the entire process of controlling the vehicle with an extra layer of UI between the player and his vehicle.

So, as an example:

While the player is the gunner or the commander, any driver controls (eg WASD keys) trigger the VON LEFT! FAST! STOP! LEFT! LEFT! STOP! BACK! STOP! SLOW! RIGHT!. and so on.

Not only does this spam the chat with unnecessary lines of text that obliterates the chat log for proper communication, but it is also hyper annoying hearing your own avatar yelling out these dumb commands.

LEFT! FAST! STOP! LEFT! LEFT! STOP! BACK! STOP! SLOW! RIGHT!

It's silly and completely unnecessary.

Just disable the AI driver while a player is in control of the vehicle. What is the difference? Nothing other then simplifying the interface and control of the vehicle. If there is an AI driver, then you control the vehicle directly with the normal input. If there is no AI driver, you can't and must switch your place to the drivers seat.

No more Chat and VON spam.

No more frustrating control problems with remote controlling the AI driver through the VON.

[Windwalking 18]

How do you define an 'unexpected' gunship with AI logics?

Do we want columns of troops dashing for cover because they hear their friendly forces beginning an assault 800m distant, behind three ridgelines? It would cripple the operation.

That's the sort of thing that makes developing AI a lot harder than people seem to think.

I agree, however, that units under fire should seek cover first. By the way, why can't they hear sonic cracks yet?

By unexpected fire, I mean that the AI group is on safe stance. Either just patrolling or safely in base. They should react the same even if the fire shot was friendly, close by, and unseen. And I do mean close by enough to be a threat. If for a few seconds nothing happens, they should investigate right away.

This behavior should not be the same when the AI is on Aware state of course. I believe this will avoid AI running around like headless chicken every time they hear gunfire. What stance they are in the crucial part.

If its not going to make it to the game, I can write a script that does it easily. A mod later on too, but I suggest this to be in vanilla since it will really add to the immersion and feel in the game.

[progamer 14]

for VON it would be fine to get some basic 'range' ... (equal to direct channel VON range)

maybe detect dB and increase or decrease the range but that's bonus

Yea, adding in the ability for the AI to detect your VON volume and react accordingly would add a whole new depth to the game and allow mods like ACRE to have the player have to speak quietly into his ACRE radio or on teamspeak/ mumble. With the idea of speaking quietly on your radio to avoid detection instead of having your voice audiable to enemy in VON range while talking on the radio. Shall I make a ticket for this?

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------

But first we need support for the AI to be able to react accordingly to different voice levels. Because they shouldn't act like I am yelling when I whisper to the person beside me.

[chrisb 196]

Hey Chris - you have a lot of great AI videos in your channel..

Thanks, just testing and mixing what others have made..

________________

However it doesnt get clear if its a mod you made or if its vanilla AI. You should mention it in the video description if you used (and or made) the "smart 'ai'" mod. .

They are mod/addons used, see this.

____________________________

Anyway: The things we see in your video are great and either they are made possible through a mod or not - this behavior is what we need for the ai

If the behavior is forced through a mod then even more since it shows that even part time community members can integrate this behavior.

Of course if you/the creator of the ai mod is a professional ai scripter I will take back my last few words;) Either way - the videos show very very nice ai featurs that are a must have.

I tested, a lot, using many various mixes of pbo’s, finally came up with the behaviour in the vids. I have been using this mix, or one’s very much like it, since Arma, then into A2. Makes for a completely different game, far better than anything I have seen so far.

But not me to thank, instead many very talented mod/addon makers, unfortunately many have since left the series..

TPW/Ollem and a few others are still carrying on the banner for AI though, thank goodness..

Oh, I'm not a scripter really, so no need to take any words back for me, however the talented ones probably are/were so maybe....;):)

[progamer 14]

Here's the ticket for the players voice affecting the the detection ability of the AI: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12736

:)

[[evo] dan 79]

AI has gotten worse for me over the last few days in this scenario. Tried to get them to land, on Sunday they were fine, yesturday they kept getting stuck on the rocks, and today they just breakdance in the water. Shall I create a ticket for this? Here is the folder if anyone wants to try it (Marshalls are landing).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28062918/coop_amphib_support.Stratis.rar

[froggyluv 2136]

Here's the ticket for the players voice affecting the the detection ability of the AI: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12736

:)

Yep it's broken. I hid behind an enemy squad at less than 30m then switched to Danger to relay orders to my squad "2! WEAPONS FREE!!" "ALL! FORM WEDGE!!!" -no response at all from enemy squad.

I know it's too late now but considering the fact that so many mission today are reflecting more current spec ops infiltrate type missions -BI should have considered more of a talking into the mike type audio than WWII type Normandy battle screams. Unless we stay in Stealth the whole time, we're gonna need a STFU command :)

[[evo] dan 79]

Here is the ticket for the breakdancing AI in vehicles on the water issue:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12740