Water crashes or landings in helicopter are very unrealistic

[progamer 14]

I was just thinking about how helicopter and other aircraft when they are implemented should be able to allow the occupants to swim out while it sinks and survive in non-lethal crashes. Helicopters should roll over and then allow the occupants to swim out to safety as it sinks down to the sea floor. Currently you die pretty much instantly or are force out of the vehicle. I have created a ticket for my idea on how to allow helicopter to interact better with the new water we have in Arma 3.

Link to ticket:http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8468

Edited May 19, 2013 by ProGamer

[nodunit 397]

Please do not create threads to point to tickets.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Thanks for posting!

It's standard in the US Navy / Marines to use an Emergency Breathing System (EBS) to exit ditched helicopters. NATO were looking at making it standard and it's is standard in the North Sea oil industry. Examples / training videos here, HEEDS / SEA Survival Egress Air systems:

http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFullText/RTO/AG/RTO-AG-HFM-152///AG-HFM-152-07.pdf

http://www.helicopterhelmet.com/HEEDS-III-Aqualung-SEA_c_18.html

So drowning quickly because you can't remove heavy equipment / hold your breath in cold water is less of a risk (theoretically!).

Edited May 20, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[progamer 14]

We have some pretty awesome water in Arma 3, and since infantry have many ways to interact with it realistically, vehicles should get the chance to interact realistically with water rather than the currently Arcadish interaction with water they have.

[chrisb 196]

Yes, sounds good, emergency exits after ditching would be nice to see in-game..

Voted up.:)

[Jex 1]

Better interaction would be great though AC and water don't really go very well. Making it that the player must detach from his seat and then swim to the surface could be good. It may not be an option if the exits got blocked then you can all drown together :)

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

That's a pretty small thing to worry about. I mean how often are you in a vehicle that lands in the ocean? If you're in a helicopter that's going down, chances are you're already dead before it hits the water. If you survived the weapon projectile impact, then you would probably die hitting dry land anyway.

I agree it would be nice if say you had a soft landing in the ocean and wanted to leave the helicopter instead of just instantly dying and sinking with it, but how often does it really happen that we have to worry about it?

[PN11A 2]

That's a pretty small thing to worry about. I mean how often are you in a vehicle that lands in the ocean? If you're in a helicopter that's going down, chances are you're already dead before it hits the water. If you survived the weapon projectile impact, then you would probably die hitting dry land anyway.

I agree it would be nice if say you had a soft landing in the ocean and wanted to leave the helicopter instead of just instantly dying and sinking with it, but how often does it really happen that we have to worry about it?

1. Its not always a weapon that brings a helicopter down.

2. I knew/know at a minimum 6 guys who have been in helicopter crashes and survived

3. If it was not applicable there would not be helicopter dunk tanks for crew men training.

4. Auto rotate

[dmarkwick 261]

Helos are not unique in this, all vehicles can benefit from a better hit/damage/survivability logic. I certainly would like to see the possibility of surviving a helo crash after a suitable PhysX ground collision after being brought down because of catastrophic component failure after it being hit by a projectile.

[[evo] dan 79]

Actually, if they implement the TOH style damage (basically, you turn too tight, you break the heli). Crash landings might be a more frequent thing without being necessarily hit.

[Jex 1]

1. Its not always a weapon that brings a helicopter down.

2. I knew/know at a minimum 6 guys who have been in helicopter crashes and survived

3. If it was not applicable there would not be helicopter dunk tanks for crew men training.

4. Auto rotate

I don't think he's saying it can't happen, just that it's a rare occurrence and there are more important things to code in. Like I said, it would be great to see it modeled in but it's not a high priority. Maybe in Arma 8 or 9 we'll get there ;)

[PN11A 2]

I know what he is saying, and what im saying is that a water crash should not = auto wipe.

[nodunit 397]

Once again this comes under the issue of the HP system and the explosive phase. In the majority situations people don't die by explosion, its by being unable to escape and drowning or the impact being hard enough to break something...usually it is the former however.

It would be so very nice to see the hp system on vehicles done away with altogether but its never going to happen.

[max power 21]

No matter what system you're using to keep track of damage, it's going to boil down to hitpoints in some way. But even in take on, if you roll the helicopter over, it results in instant player death regardless of what happened to the helicopter. It's just weird / outdated system design. I'm sure they could make a delightful system that included hitpoints to keep track of what was damaged and how much.

[ozzbik 71]

I believe this is partially already in-game? For instance the rotor breaks when it hits the ground.

It would be nice if it affected more points on the chopper though. :)

[Mabe 1]

everytime i come in for a fast landing the chopper doesn't slide it just slams and tilts up.

[stupidwhitekid75 11]

When the alpha was first released I ran into some cool situations where my helo (specifically AH/MH-9) would clip something or take enough small arms fire that it would go down but instead of insta-blowing up when it hit the ground, it would crash and sometimes even roll onto its side. I would be wounded but typically I would survive the crash and be able to exit along with my co-pilot and we would patch ourselves up. It usually seemed a lot more realistic seeing the chopper laying on its side, visible damaged certainly but not to a point where it was a smoldering heap. The dev build seems to have changed this for the most part, sometimes the chopper will still roll but the player seems to always die. I hope that we can see it go back to the way it was before. Something else that would be interesting to see would be a static wreck, where when the helicopter hits, instead of it blowing up, it turns into a wreck (ground torn up, chopper banged up) but with players still alive (depending on the severity) inside. Don't know if this would even be possible though.

[liquidpinky 11]

Dan;2399865']Actually' date=' if they implement the TOH style damage (basically, you turn too tight, you break the heli). Crash landings might be a more frequent thing without being necessarily hit.[/quote']

True, and if you still have you rotors intact there is the possibilty of an autorotate landind. Unless you get a transmission failure, then you drop like a stone.

The sea is a nice soft choice if there is nowhere flat nearby.

Survivors of hard ground landings will also create inpromtu medivac missions. Extra gameplay for free.

[Simas 12]

everytime i come in for a fast landing the chopper doesn't slide it just slams and tilts up.

If it's MH/AH-9 - I am not surprised. I doubt skids can slide, especially on the dirt/concrete type of landings. There is just too much friction.

As for the KA-60 - I think the wheels are not (yet) implemented.

[progamer 14]

Thanks for posting!

It's standard in the US Navy / Marines to use an Emergency Breathing System (EBS) to exit ditched helicopters. NATO were looking at making it standard and it's is standard in the North Sea oil industry. Examples / training videos here, HEEDS / SEA Survival Egress Air systems:

http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFullText/RTO/AG/RTO-AG-HFM-152///AG-HFM-152-07.pdf

http://www.helicopterhelmet.com/HEEDS-III-Aqualung-SEA_c_18.html

So drowning quickly because you can't remove heavy equipment / hold your breath in cold water is less of a risk (theoretically!).

Unfortunately helicopters treat water as quicksand rather than actual water. The CH-47's engine breaks when trying to "float" it in the water for divers and boats to enter it.

---------- Post added at 01:44 ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 ----------

Better interaction would be great though AC and water don't really go very well. Making it that the player must detach from his seat and then swim to the surface could be good. It may not be an option if the exits got blocked then you can all drown together :)

Imagine sinking down at night with your freinds and being trapped in the helicopter, saying your goodbyes to your teammates above! :)

---------- Post added at 01:46 ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 ----------

True, and if you still have you rotors intact there is the possibilty of an autorotate landind. Unless you get a transmission failure, then you drop like a stone.

The sea is a nice soft choice if there is nowhere flat nearby.

Survivors of hard ground landings will also create inpromtu medivac missions. Extra gameplay for free.

I really hope the TOH flight model gets implemented or at least allow better water interaction and autorotation to happen.

Imagine rescue divers trying to salvage or rescue the trapped crew!

[progamer 14]

This is still an issue as of the beta.

[progamer 14]

The current Beta has very few if not any improvements to aircraft and water interaction:

When a helicopter wheels touch the water the engines are still damaged.

I also saw that when you crash into the water currently, the rotors magically disappear and the helicopter sinks right side up like a crane is lowering it down then explodes when it lightly taps the sea floor.

[sqb-sma 66]

The current Beta has very few if not any improvements to aircraft and water interaction:

When a helicopter wheels touch the water the engines are still damaged.

I also saw that when you crash into the water currently, the rotors magically disappear and the helicopter sinks right side up like a crane is lowering it down then explodes when it lightly taps the sea floor.

Same for cars, rather than the heavier engine sinking before the passenger compartment (which is usually still filled with air) it sinks completely flat.