OVER POWERED AI ! Please fix this for final game ruins coop

[kremator 1064]

Come on guys ... how many times do you have to be told IT'S AN ALPHA?

If you are not willing to test these things (and therefore NOT WHINE!) then please uninstall until game release.

[metalcraze 290]

If everyone has to edit a mission to do the same thing, then it should just be lowered by default. Personally i am getting pretty sick of BIS messing up default settings every fucking time, it really takes away from the game.

Why not just lower AI precision in profile/server profile settings? No need to edit any mission.

[jw custom 56]

If everyone has to edit a mission to do the same thing, then it should just be lowered by default.

Well this guy is in progress making his own missions so i'm just giving him some "tools".

Can you confirm where to edit this ?

Go into the editor and place a group of enemies, then in the init field of the leader put this:

{_x setSkill ["aimingAccuracy", 0.2]} forEach units group this;

Other skills to adjust:

aimingAccuracy

aimingShake

aimingSpeed

endurance

spotDistance

spotTime

courage

reloadSpeed

commanding

general

[NeMeSiS 11]

Well this guy is in progress making his own missions so i'm just giving him some "tools".

I don't blame you, but since this isn't is ME&S i figured i could complain about it again, though i guess they already know. ;)

[Second 0]

This is not broken its simply a lack of education on the mission makers part.

I'd say that BIS should finally elevate skill levels of default squad members. right now range is 0.1-0.35 (or something). It's supposed to be abysmal and not something trained rifle squad is supposed to have. Some then do elevate skill levels in their missions and some doesn't... I do forexample tweak AI so that they can act decently with their default skill levels, because elevating skill levels of each AI in every mission is quite a bother. And forexample in missions made by BIS their skill levels are elevated to something like 0.5-1... Which makes them horribly accurate with my AI settings.

That is my main problem. AI in BIS's missions have always been quite a problem as i do tend to try to tweak AI on default skilllevels (0.1-0.4) into what i think is both realistic and challenging anything in 0.5-0.7 is already unearthly killing machine... Not to speak of those with 1.

Maybe even having text next to skill level slider which tells mission maker what BIS expects this skill levels to be. Like this:

0-0.2 untrained. something like civilians

0.21-0.4 basic trained. Couple months at basic training is all it. Like artillery man as infantry soldier. Or rifleman just fresh from basic training.

0.41-0.6 normal training. Troops have been trained for many months for this task.

0.61-0.8 highly trained. About year or so of training (not sitting on barracks with thumb in arse).

0.81-1 Elite. Some highly talented and trained individuals.

Forexample default rifle squads should be something of 0.4 to 0.7 and mean average maybe in 0.55.

This could set some sort of standards across board.

[killzone_kid 1326]

There are like 1001 settings controlling AI behavior in this game, you can make AI make you a coffee if you want, no need to fix that!

[NeMeSiS 11]

There are like 1001 settings controlling AI behavior in this game, you can make AI make you a coffee if you want, no need to fix that!

The default settings do need to be something that doesnt need to be changed every single time. There is noone who enjoys playing with the default accuracy settings, and there is absolutely no need to keep it the way it is.

[daze23 1]

There is noone who enjoys playing with the default accuracy settings, and there is absolutely no need to keep it the way it is.

lies. I've never adjusted the skill, or whatever, for the AI in this game, and I "enjoy" playing

I really don't know what kind of rambo/one-man-army situations you guys are putting yourself in, that makes the AI seem so impossible. personally it's all I can do to use the randomness, and things like 'dynamic patrols', to not make the game too easy and/or predictable. and I'm far from some uber-elite player

[killzone_kid 1326]

The default settings do need to be something that doesnt need to be changed every single time. There is noone who enjoys playing with the default accuracy settings, and there is absolutely no need to keep it the way it is.

You cannot possibly make a one setting that would satisfy everyone simply because everyone has own style of play this is why there are so many options to customise AIs.

[jw custom 56]

lies. I've never adjusted the skill, or whatever, for the AI in this game, and I "enjoy" playing

Maybe true that the aimingAccuracy itself is fine but when you combine it with the difficulty of spotting AI on your screen vs. AI spotting you or other AI then it can be problematic.

P.S. notice there's a WORLD of difference regarding AI when playing on a dedicated server vs. AI in LAN/single player.

[NeMeSiS 11]

You cannot possibly make a one setting that would satisfy everyone simply because everyone has own style of play this is why there are so many options to customise AIs.

But you can change it from settings no one likes to something that more resembles what the average player wants, and something that the casual gamer who wont ever touch those options can enjoy.

[daze23 1]

P.S. notice there's a WORLD of difference regarding AI when playing on a dedicated server vs. AI in LAN/single player.

this may be a factor. most of my experience with the AI is from single player

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 ----------

no one likes

First issue: Place yourself 500 meters or more away from an enemy group you know where are in the editor. Engage them, and time the response. Also note how long it takes them to kill you, and how many you are able to kill in the prosess.

this is what I'm talking about though. why would you as a loner, engage a group so far away, and expect to survive?

[NeMeSiS 11]

this may be a factor. most of my experience with the AI is from single player

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 ----------

this is what I'm talking about though. why would you as a loner, engage a group so far away, and expect to survive?

To be honest, i don't agree exactly with that ticket*. AI spotting range is fine (some exceptions), and i think engagement ranges should be increased. However currently every mission with default AI accuracy settings turns into sniper alley.

But while we may not agree on what the exact values should be, we all agree that accuracy should be lower, pretty much since OFP.

*He doesnt seem to take into account that hitting an enemy reveals you to the whole group, which is not related to accuracy, but does explain that you get killed pretty quickly in such situations.

Edited May 10, 2013 by NeMeSiS

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Take note people ^^^

When AI are spawned they have maximum settings - you need to turn down the skill settings when you spawn them. It was the same in Arma2.

see this:

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setSkill_array

Huh ? As far as I know, they take over the skill level that you set for them in the difficulty settings, not the maximum. That's only with SuperAI on (i.e. everyone's Chuck Norris).

Well test it yourself, game set on recruit difficulty for this test:

When you place an AI in the editor it's skill is whatever the skill slider is set to, default is 0.6:

output from skill debug script: ["aimingAccuracy",0.6,"aimingShake",0.6,"aimingSpeed",0.6,"endurance",0.6,"spotDistance",0.6,"spotTime",0.6,"courage",0.6,"reloadSpeed",0.6,"commanding",0.6,"general",0.6]

Skill slider all the way to the left:

output from skill debug script: ["aimingAccuracy",0.2,"aimingShake",0.2,"aimingSpeed",0.2,"endurance",0.2,"spotDistance",0.2,"spotTime",0.2,"courage",0.2,"reloadSpeed",0.2,"commanding",0.2,"general",0.2]

AI spawned using createUnit array http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/createUnit_array

output from skill debug script: ["aimingAccuracy",1,"aimingShake",1,"aimingSpeed",1,"endurance",1,"spotDistance",1,"spotTime",1,"courage",1,"reloadSpeed",1,"commanding",1,"general",1]

Now if you run:

_unit setSkill 0.6

output from skill debug script: ["aimingAccuracy",0.6,"aimingShake",0.6,"aimingSpeed",0.6,"endurance",0.6,"spotDistance",0.6,"spotTime",0.6,"courage",0.6,"reloadSpeed",0.6,"commanding",0.6,"general",0.6]

So there you go - spawning AI gives you "super AI" - you need to turn the skill down when you spawn them - easy as pie.

If you don't set a skill range with BIS_fnc_spawnGroup - same thing happens. (probably what is occuring in MP games if the Dev doesn't realise)

Setting the difficulty has an effect - if you have difficulty set to elite and you spawn AI with skill=1, AI will have x-ray vision and will 1 shot kill you every time. Turn things down - this fetish for maximum difficulty settings makes no sense, you need to adjust the AI skill settings as well.

skill debug script:

_vcl = _this select 0;

sklarr = [];
valarr = ["aimingAccuracy","aimingShake","aimingSpeed","endurance","spotDistance","spotTime","courage","reloadSpeed","commanding","general"];
_n = -1;

{
_n = _n + 1;
_skl = _vcl skill _x;
sklarr = sklarr + [valarr select _n];
sklarr = sklarr + [_skl];
} forEach valarr;

player sidechat format ["%1:,%2",_vcl,sklarr];

copyToClipboard (str (sklarr));

Edited May 10, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[EDcase 87]

I like a challenge (played ARMA2 only on Veteran) but the settings in A3 do seem messed up.

You know something is wrong when the AI consistently kill you with the second shot while standing at around 200-300m.

Tested in editor several times in 'Regular' difficulty :butbut:

Edited May 10, 2013 by EDcase

[sproyd 2]

Just weighing in on AI in the dev build at the moment - I find them quite difficult in the Infantry showcase. They seem to get a very good bead on you when you can barely see them through shrubbery or what have you. Also, you better pray you are on semi because if you blast some full auto fire in their direction they won't move an inch and calmly take fire on your position.

[froggyluv 2130]

Also, you better pray you are on semi because if you blast some full auto fire in their direction they won't move an inch and calmly take fire on your position.

Yes but I find that if I shoot them in semi (as a non lethal shot), they jerk and return fire 1 very lethal shot. I'm glad that they now at least have a hit reaction, but I hope it gets a little more fleshed out as what it is now is more of you annoying them with that 1 bullet and them return firing and killing you -generally with one shot. That is, they are getting shot, jerking, recovering, and placing a lethal shot before I can pull off another round -am I just getting old? I'm guessing the whole 'wounded' model is not implemented yet as there seems to be very little wounded soldiers crawling about.

I like formidable AI very much but at the current state it just instinctively feels off as I have AI one shotting me in pitch black night (without NVG) from 300m out when I am prone. It'd be nice for BI to really put their best foot forward and really try to present a tightly calibrated enemy to fight against - something that they themselves very much believe is the most accurate model they can achieve in terms of AI return fire, suppression, accuracy and speed of turning movements. Relying on us to guesstimate what seems realistic via config leads to wildly varying results and hard to gauge whether we are really THAT good at kicking a$$ or our config values are just too low.

All games need proper rules to feel any sense of accomplishment.

[sproyd 2]

The best wounded system I've ever encountered is believe it or not Far Cry 2.

I played that game extensively and its incredible what Ubisoft Montreal pulled off. Injured players crawl up to trees and slump and shoot you when you come by - and enemies carry other enemies.

[chortles 263]

Wait wait wait, injured players getting a specific "play dead" action and animation?

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

I like a challenge (played ARMA2 only on Veteran) but the settings in A3 do seem messed up.

You know something is wrong when the AI consistently kill you with the second shot while standing at around 200-300m.

Tested in editor several times in 'Regular' difficulty :butbut:

And with what skill settings?

Try setting the skill level of a 4 man fireteam at 0.2 (skill slider all the way to the left in editor for each AI)

Now play the mission 4x over at Recruit/Regular/Veteran/Elite

Notice they change from gun happy, hopeless, spray and pray, cowards to very good troops? You can get the AI level you want with a combination of skill / difficulty settings - try it?

The AI certainly aren't finished and maybe the default skill setting needs a tweak downwards but lets say they set it at 0.2.

This thread would have the title: "AI too easy - where's the challenge?"

[telkwa 0]

I agree the AI is so skilled they see through walls. I have played with the editor lots. One example, I layed prone in a one room building with two small windows and a door. I put soldiers all over the hills around the building. I shoot one 150 meters up the slope of a hill and has his back to me and I kill him. 30 seconds later all his pals spread far in a wedge start shooting the building. 1. I shot from the opposite side of the room where the window was. No chance they could detect my flash, gun smoke or barrel or my silhouette yet they zeroed in on me like x-ray vision. 2. I crawl around the floor prone and if I go near the door they start shooting the door, and the door is closed. They obviously see me through the door. How they know I am tin the building in the first place, so far away and only from killing one of them.

[metalcraze 290]

So it took them 30 seconds to figure out you are in that building? I don't see how that's seeing through walls, zeroing with x-ray etc.

No chance they could detect my flash, gun smoke or barrel or my silhouette

Why are you so sure? I can see soldiers inside buildings using optics just fine.

If you think AI indeed can see through walls - make a feedback ticket with a repro mission and we will all see the extent of this superhuman AI. If it's there - it won't get fixed otherwise.

EDIT: turns out you are partially correct

Please upvote this ticket:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8204

Edited May 11, 2013 by metalcraze

[sorophx 25]

I agree that the game is unplayable in MP right now. most admins don't bother to adjust AI skill settings, as a result, you shoot a suppressed weapon from cover, drop an enemy soldier, 2 seconds later you're being shot at from all directions, and if your cover isn't solid, you're dead. that's just ridiculous, they didn't see you, they didn't hear you (supposedly), only thing they saw was their buddy dropping dead. and yet they suddenly know my exact location

[chortles 263]

I agree that the game is unplayable in MP right now. most admins don't bother to adjust AI skill settings, as a result, you shoot a suppressed weapon from cover, drop an enemy soldier, 2 seconds later you're being shot at from all directions, and if your cover isn't solid, you're dead. that's just ridiculous, they didn't see you, they didn't hear you (supposedly), only thing they saw was their buddy dropping dead. and yet they suddenly know my exact location

If you can reproduce this consistently, then upvote metalcraze's ticket!

[rasdenfasden 12]

The AI feels a bit WIP right now, considering the slow motion rotating and the fact that they can't hit moving targets. I'm expecting major changes at some point soon.