Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[Polygon 11]

He seems to have a interesting Job^^

(Does this mean that any of this might be coming to A3?)

No, he's a freelancer doing contract work. Every contract has its set of rules.

[Greenfist 1863]

The quality and lack of vehicle impact sounds is really starting to bug me. I crash a car in the side of a building at 100km/h and hear nothing. Is it just me or a known bug that sometimes the impact of the sound is completely missing? And at times when it's audible it's way too quiet; inside or outside the vehicle. Impact sound is never louder than even the engine. And by the way, if a tree falls in a forest and I'm there to hear it, does it make a sound? Haven't really noticed.

And it seems that there's only one sound sample for any one vehicle (or class?), right? There could be maybe 2 more played randomly, just for the variation. And different sounds for small and big impact - a small bumps and big crashes. Volume and type of these sounds could be determined by the force of the impact or the level of damage sustained to the vehicle. I know at least physx can give you the force even if there's no damage dealt.

In addition, there's no sound when a vehicle falls to the ground, or can't I just hear it? For example when I'm offroad and manage to catch some air in higher speed. All ground vehicles have suspension, so would it be possible to detect a sudden change in suspension compression values to play a sound? Compression going from 0 to max in less than 0.3 seconds and I'd hear a thump in cars or steely clank and screech in tanks.

All these would make moving in ground vehicles less ethereal experience.

[taumargin 13]

i hope You noticed our Sound Recording Master there (the guy in red is Ondrej Matejka) :) )

note: he record and manage sound/music for quite lot of games/studios ;)

Well obviously Ondrej Matejka must be pulling his hair out. Why does every modern sound engine known to man/woman have the ability to have a range of different audio environments/reverbs and Arma3 does not. It's bread and butter stuff that should have been included after Arma2.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Well obviously Ondrej Matejka must be pulling his hair out. Why does every modern sound engine known to man/woman have the ability to have a range of different audio environments/reverbs and Arma3 does not. It's bread and butter stuff that should have been included after Arma2.

no idea if he did, but indeed, reverb and echoing, is seriosly what i'm missing in arma series. ESP. after playing with speed of sound, which "magicaly" offers neat reverb, which sounds different in different sized rooms, and applies on any weapon, even using custom samples. You can hear someone shooting inside the building even from farther distances, which clearly helps to understand, where to find the enemy.

Should that be really a big deal for the devs, to perhaps use methods, for example speed of sound mod is using, to add reverb for arma engine?

Edited November 12, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[metalcraze 290]

We also need ArmA2 sound occlusion/muffling by objects back. It was natural and immersive.

[Bouben 3]

no idea if he did, but indeed, reverb and echoing, is seriosly what i'm missing in arma series. ESP. after playing with speed of sound, which "magicaly" offers neat reverb, which sounds different in different sized rooms, and applies on any weapon, even using custom samples. You can hear someone shooting inside the building even from farther distances, which clearly helps to understand, where to find the enemy.

Should that be really a big deal for the devs, to perhaps use methods, for example speed of sound mod is using, to add reverb for arma engine?

Yeah the reverb thing (and distance filters) in the Speed of sound is maybe quite good but that mod is far from being really. I respect the effort made but I was very disappointed when testing it that sound volumes are terribly inbalanced and that stereo image does not reflect (in other word respect) the distance and the rest of the environment very well. Also the frequency content of sounds in the mod is simply wrong (inbalanced) - making distant sounds much closer then they are while some close sounds sound distant etc (most probably because of the stereo-image non-sense and insufficiently tweaked low-end and incorrect usage of dynamic compression (or absence of dynamic compression at all)). In other words the mix is not good. I mean it solved some vanilla issues but introduced whole series of another that was not in the vanilla. I stopped using it very quickly.

Consistency is something that sound mods for Arma mostly do not deliver. Therefore I still play with vanilla sounds since arma 2 because there simply is no better alternative yet and eye-candy sweet sounding FX alone do not cut it for me.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Bouben

[EDcase 87]

The problem with surround sound in ARMA3 goes much further than the conversations tho.

When near to a sound source it becomes monural and you loose all sense of direction of the sound.

ie. Standing next to a vehicle engine or soldier firing. (Don't look at the screen and spin your character around)

[sproyd 2]

Despite the issues with JSRS and SOS mods (which I actively switch between for their respective pros/cons) I just can't play with Vanilla Arma 3 sounds anymore.

The ubiquitious 6.5mm rounds are the main culprit for me - they just sound SO awful in vanilla. Helicopters are significantly improved in mods as well.

What vanilla does well is volume balancing, and its usually easy to tell how far away or in what exact direction someone is although distant firefights aren't audible and samples are mostly questionable. When you add more reverb you also lose some spatial direction (as reverb turns mono samples stereo) but this is realistic really.

[papy.rabbit.08 0]

The ubiquitious 6.5mm rounds are the main culprit for me - they just sound SO awful in vanilla. Helicopters are significantly improved in mods as well.

And what about the explosions and shot fires from enemies/teammates? :P I use JSRS mostely for that! Secondarily for helicopters.

[danil-ch 165]

We also need ArmA2 sound occlusion/muffling by objects back. It was natural and immersive.

Agreed. Also would be nice to have tinnitus sound effect from A2.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Yeah the reverb thing (and distance filters) in the Speed of sound is maybe quite good but that mod is far from being really. I respect the effort made but I was very disappointed when testing it that sound volumes are terribly inbalanced and that stereo image does not reflect (in other word respect) the distance and the rest of the environment very well. Also the frequency content of sounds in the mod is simply wrong (inbalanced) - making distant sounds much closer then they are while some close sounds sound distant etc (most probably because of the stereo-image non-sense and insufficiently tweaked low-end and incorrect usage of dynamic compression (or absence of dynamic compression at all)). In other words the mix is not good. I mean it solved some vanilla issues but introduced whole series of another that was not in the vanilla. I stopped using it very quickly.

Consistency is something that sound mods for Arma mostly do not deliver. Therefore I still play with vanilla sounds since arma 2 because there simply is no better alternative yet and eye-candy sweet sounding FX alone do not cut it for me.

i think you are a bit wrong here, i'm not discussing SoS, if it's good or bad, i'm discussing, that it adds to arma 3 engine, something that was not made by the devs from begining, so it means technicaly it is possible, to add reverberation to arma, it's only a question of BIS priority/sound engine director thing.

[x3kj 1247]

Agreed. Also would be nice to have tinnitus sound effect from A2.

That's the thing i can live without... why would i want to simulate tinitus? i already have it occasionally in RL. Just reduce/distort sound to "simulate" problems with hearing. But the phiiiiiiiiiiiiiii phiiiiiiiiii phiiiiiiiii just because something fired in your general direction is annoying as hell. Particulary if an autocannon shoots at your location.

[Bouben 3]

Despite the issues with JSRS and SOS mods (which I actively switch between for their respective pros/cons) I just can't play with Vanilla Arma 3 sounds anymore.

The ubiquitious 6.5mm rounds are the main culprit for me - they just sound SO awful in vanilla. Helicopters are significantly improved in mods as well.

What vanilla does well is volume balancing, and its usually easy to tell how far away or in what exact direction someone is although distant firefights aren't audible and samples are mostly questionable. When you add more reverb you also lose some spatial direction (as reverb turns mono samples stereo) but this is realistic really.

Yes, sometimes IRL you can notice that, because of echoes, you can even completely wrongly tell a direction a sound is coming from. Experienced it couple of times. It is definitely realistic. The problem with reverb in sound mods and with sound mods in general is their quality and logic of what they do. There is so many small elements that need be considered in sound mods to make it good sounding, logical and realistic and functional at the same time. Not a single sound mod I have tried have accomplished it very well yet, unfortunately. But I definitely give respect to their authors for accepting the challenge and at least trying. It is a huge task.

i think you are a bit wrong here, i'm not discussing SoS, if it's good or bad, i'm discussing, that it adds to arma 3 engine, something that was not made by the devs from begining, so it means technicaly it is possible, to add reverberation to arma, it's only a question of BIS priority/sound engine director thing.

Yes, don't worry, I understand you. You have a point.

That's the thing i can live without... why would i want to simulate tinitus? i already have it occasionally in RL. Just reduce/distort sound to "simulate" problems with hearing. But the phiiiiiiiiiiiiiii phiiiiiiiiii phiiiiiiiii just because something fired in your general direction is annoying as hell. Particulary if an autocannon shoots at your location.

Well unless you want Arma to be so loud so that it does not have to simulate tinnitus there has to be some way of making this kind of impact on a player. It happens IRL and it is a realistic factor in a realistic game. Therefore I would simulate it.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Bouben

[NeuroFunker 11]

maybe your right, but i do preffer hearing explosions around me, which makes me panic, and run for cover, then annoying peeeepeeeepeeep thingy, which only runing the experience.

For example in my video here, we are geting ambushed by BTR Kamysh, listen to the sound, and the imagine all that with tinitus sound, would ruin whole experience, by peepeeng our the whole thing...

Turn your volume bit down.

Edited November 15, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[Bouben 3]

maybe your right, but i do preffer hearing explosions around me, which makes me panic, and run for cover, then annoying peeeepeeeepeeep thingy, which only runing the experience.

For example in my video here, we are geting ambushed by BTR Kamysh, listen to the sound, and the imagine all that with tinitus sound, would ruin whole experience, by peepeeng our the whole thing...

Turn your volume bit down.

I respect your preference but tinitus is not something that should take away your hearing completely. It should just make more mess to the sound. The explosions should not be disabled completely, just muffled and lower in volume. But of course, this is a matter of taste. I would not mind tinnitus (in game! :D) and you would prefer the game without it. All cool.

[progamer 14]

I respect your preference but tinitus is not something that should take away your hearing completely. It should just make more mess to the sound. The explosions should not be disabled completely, just muffled and lower in volume. But of course, this is a matter of taste. I would not mind tinnitus (in game! :D) and you would prefer the game without it. All cool.

We could get tinted back and have an "allowTintus" scripting command which could be set as true or false.

[MavericK96 0]

It seems like the weird issue with not being able to hear voices (like Miller's) except via the left ear in Campaign has been fixed, but now it almost seems like there is little or not directional sound. No matter where you turn your head it sounds like he's coming from the same direction.

[xendance 3]

We could get tinted back and have an "allowTintus" scripting command which could be set as true or false.

Just... no. No tinnitus, ever.

[John Kozak 14]

Just... no. No tinnitus, ever.

And I vote yes for it :) I don't want to imagine effects myself, I want to have simulations of as many aspects as possible.

Poll, anyone?

[NeuroFunker 11]

And I vote yes for it :) I don't want to imagine effects myself, I want to have simulations of as many aspects as possible.

Poll, anyone?

did you watch my video? So you want people who are watching, hear peeepeeepeep at that scene instead?

[progamer 14]

Just... no. No tinnitus, ever.

Why? If it's optional via script, everybody wins!

[John Kozak 14]

did you watch my video? So you want people who are watching, hear peeepeeepeep at that scene instead?

I want the correct gameplay. ArmA 3 a game first, machinima creation tool second.

Do you want to just walk away from a 120mm shell that exploded 20 meters from you?

EDIT: posted a poll related to the question.

Edited November 20, 2013 by DarkWanderer

[NeuroFunker 11]

I want the correct gameplay. ArmA 3 a game first, machinima creation tool second.

Do you want to just walk away from a 120mm shell that exploded 20 meters from you?

EDIT: posted a poll related to the question.

20m? Thats not close at all.

[2nd ranger 282]

If you're standing 20m from where a 120mm artillery shell hits, I'd say you're pretty much graveyard dead.

[John Kozak 14]

20m? Thats not close at all.

Here's some reference: http://www.makeitlouder.com/Decibel%20Level%20Chart.txt

From there:

180 (P) 1 POUND T.N.T. AT 15 FEET -REF.4.

187 (P) 1 TON T.N.T. AT 100 FEET, EXACTLY 186.8 DB -REF.4.

So, an artillery shell (which contains 15-25 pounds of HE) falls somewhere inbetween. Assuming that sound pressure level is proportional to the explosive mass (which is not true, but an approximation) and 20 pounds of TNT, we get 193dB at 15 feet, and correspondingly ~180dB at 60 feet ("6 dB per double distance" law, also doesn't actually apply here - but again, it's an approximation).

Verification: going from the other side, 1 short ton / 20 pounds = 100 = 20 dB; (187 - 20 + 6) dB = 173 dB at 50 feet - close, given our wide assumptions.

173 dB is pretty much enough to knock out your hearing ;)

If you're standing 20m from where a 120mm artillery shell hits, I'd say you're pretty much graveyard dead.

According to NeuroFunker - you'll be dead, but still have damn good hearing :D

Edited November 20, 2013 by DarkWanderer