Any chance for default melee weapons?

[Harzach 2507]

...not everyone in the arma community is a realism nerd...

Shun the non-believer!

[HorbeySpector 164]

Shun the non-believer!

[Sneakson 1]

the unrealistic thing is that it is more silent than a person clapping (which is 40-50db) and that after a few dozen meters you cant hear it, when a real silenced rifle has around 130db even with subsonic ammo, and thats as loud as a jackhammer. that means u can clearly hear it for hundreds of meters on open hills like those in arma. and its still loud as fuck from upclose, nowhere near stealth. the game´s silencer simply sounds exatcly like in holywood movies, completely fake.

you can dislike melee weapons or takedowns although both exists in real life military, thats fine, but calling knives unrealistic while believing silencers in arma behave realistically is screwed up to say the least.

and i wont even begin with third person, because to me thats the complete opossite of being realistic, thats like a tomb raider game ffs.

Some jackhammer in your neighbourhood.

[icewindo 29]

i totally agree. what would be the problem? it wouldn't automatically mean that everyone would use them all the time. it would be so great to expand the military simulation thing into past scenarios like the medieval times.

the problem here is the animation system though (like i described in the stealth kill thread). weapon specific animations are full body animations in arma which is VERY unfortunate. so what you have in the anim config is one tree (or rather major branch) for rifles, one for pistols, one for rocket launchers and one for being unarmed (also binos but that's not many anims) . so just adding one weapon would mean having to make a whole new set of animations for it. so EVERY animation that can be performed holding a weapon in general. unfortunately the whole engine is based around those preset weapon types. arma has a very restricted view of what a weapon is.

the best way is still what you did there which looks a whole lot like the dayZ approach. custom holding anim combined with an attack gesture.

all that is not taking proper damage handling into account. so sadly i don't see BI investing any time into it, which is frankly understandable given the circumstances.

Yeah it'd be nice to have something like the good old OFP "strokegun" / "strokefist", even AI could use it back then without any additional hacking.

As for the anims, the weapons in the dayz mod use gestures and not full body anims (layered RTMs - basicly you can define which parts should use the gesture and which parts remain with the original rtm that is allready running).

So you only need one new weapon holding anim (which is a gesture allready) and one gesture for the attack swing animation. The attack gesture will then play regardless of the stance. But gestures are like 0.0 documentated. I have a hard time getting them to work for a custom model.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Icewindo

[killzone_kid 1326]

Some jackhammer in your neighbourhood.

On second video the initial bang is so loud the camera mic almost shuts down to compensate.

[liquidpinky 11]

On second video the initial bang is so loud the camera mic almost shuts down to compensate.

Sounds worse thanks to the wooded area, anyone who has fired a gun into the woods will know how much more sound is reflected back at you.

[white 1]

Some jackhammer in your neighbourhood.

its a fact it is around 130db when silenced, its not perception, its not my opinion, its a fact. its a fact a jackhammer is also around 130db, not my perception, not my opinion. see a trend here? and you know what else falls between 100-140db? a jet engine. of course a jackhammer and a jet engine is perceived differently because their sound is continuous, but still at least serves as an example of how far you would hear it.

yet, in the game they make only the air pressure sound when you are next to someone firing it, and after a few meters you dont hear anything. pratically a whisper, and exatcly like any holywood movie.

those amateurish cameras used for youtube videos are not made to properly capture sound, the encoding also doesnt help, they are completely dismissable. but still, they are much much louder than the ingame sound:

compare to the ingame sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cMIZLic6dQ

might be a gameplay decision? sure, a lot of games do the same, and thats fine. but ffs dont call it realistic because it doesnt come close to it.

Edited April 28, 2013 by white

[Harzach 2507]

Still limited by the quality of the recording, but you can get a much better sense of just how loud a suppressed firearm really is:

[Mac 1]

...not everyone in the arma community is a realism nerd...

Ya, its too bad isnt it. It was nice when it was

[Seitan 8]

Ya, its too bad isnt it. It was nice when it was

Yea, I bet you all four? people had fun back then. :o

But why not chance to melee in pvp? I bet new players would like it.

[Bashka_IF 1]

Yea, I bet you all four? people had fun back then. :o

But why not chance to melee in pvp? I bet new players would like it.

Ideally we should be able to create mod similar to this

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chivalry+medieval+warfare&oq=chivalry+medieval+warfare

Seriously:

- Knife kills is a must have

- some way to disable a soldier but not kill (knock him off, take his weapon, tie his hands and take as prisoner)

[Mac 1]

Yea, I bet you all four? people had fun back then. :o

But why not chance to melee in pvp? I bet new players would like it.

I would rather have only 4 people who are military minded than have thousands of kids who want cool L33T bullshit ruining my all-time favorite game

[killzone_kid 1326]

I would rather have only 4 people who are military minded than have thousands of kids who want cool L33T bullshit ruining my all-time favorite game

You sound like there is only one game on a single server in the whole world. Well keep on this attitude towards new possibilities and this might well become reality one day.

[daze23 1]

no

there's plenty of games, like Chivalry, if you like melee combat

[imrevned 1]

If this game is aiming towards realism, I think a knife would be realistic.

I believe soldiers carry knives on themselves.

[chrisb 196]

I would rather have only 4 people who are military minded than have thousands of kids who want cool L33T bullshit ruining my all-time favorite game

This notion of realism, I even fool myself with it.

But lets be honest in some countries it would be preferred to just have a nice gun battle and get shot and that’s the end, however what about those countries, where they will finish off a wounded soldier with a machete or any other implement to hand, rather than a nice clean single shot, dismember, behead, burn etc..

Also think about ‘non-explosive' devices (booby traps) used in Vietnam and the things the viet-cong got upto there to maim and kill enemy forces. Weapons of all types, even none weapons are used in warfare, its not a nice clean environment to be fighting in. There are many circumstances where wounded soldiers have chosen to take their own lives rather than be taken alive, knowing the consequences of what may happen afterwards.

Drop the notion of realism, no game or indeed simulation could begin to be realistic, if the only weapons are just of the gun type or explosives, warfare is about a lot more than just that. A knife is quite civilised when compared to a machete or can of fuel and a lighter….

Before anyone comes in saying, its not about that this series, no its not, its a game regarding military tactics and war, its kept sanitised as such, all I am thinking is melee, or something that depicts it, don’t need the graphic, we don’t have the graphic of a bullet entering a body, its not needed, we know it happened, can be done the same way, but its a part of war.

Lets move at least a little closer by introducing other weapons if possible, or other ways of killing, don’t need a complecated animation, just to know that to creep up, or get near to an enemy, that a simple animation could mean a knife, or any other implement kill.. Feint has this.. probably what we (our group) will use to depict this type of kill, ingame..

Edited April 29, 2013 by ChrisB

[Mac 1]

The argument against it is that it very rarely, if ever, happens. If we want to add anything that might happen on the field of battle then I want to see soldiers tripping, soldiers twisting their ankles, I want us to have to drink water to stay hydrated, I want weapon malfunctions. These things happen more often than a knife fight. (obviously I'm exaggerating for effect but you get the point)

Also, yes a game cannot ever be 100% realistic (well maybe one day it can) but the purpose of Arma is to provide an environment where real world military tactics can be simulated. The purpose is not to be able to recreate a Hollywood movie, or some fantasy you had about how you charged into a building and killed 5 guys single handed because you knifed them from behind.

I guess my point is, yes you can't get 100% realism in a game but in a game that strives for it you need to always try to have as much of it as you can or else what's the point, just make another twitch shooter for the ignorant masses instead.

[nodunit 397]

The purpose is not to be able to recreate a Hollywood movie, or some fantasy you had about how you charged into a building and killed 5 guys single handed because you knifed them from behind.

You're blowing this way out of proportion. Melee doesn't have to function in the same way it does mainstream games with the one stab anywhere one kill.

[white 1]

ww2 vet on knives:

http://www.military.com/video/specialties-and-personnel/veterans/ww2-vet-still-handy-with-the-knife/1363196314001/

knives military training:

military from all over the world must be retarded to train with knives, they are useless, unrealistic and are only usefull on "twitch" arcade shooters, they should listen to ArmA players!

Edited April 29, 2013 by white

[Mac 1]

You're blowing this way out of proportion. Melee doesn't have to function in the same way it does mainstream games with the one stab anywhere one kill.

I guess you're right. Hopefully if it is implemented it will be in a realistic manner. I mean, in real life the last thing you ever want to do is find yourself in a knife fight so hopefully it can be implemented in a way to make it a highly undesirable option

ww2 vet on knives:

http://www.military.com/video/specialties-and-personnel/veterans/ww2-vet-still-handy-with-the-knife/1363196314001/

knives military training:

military from all over the world must be retarded to train with knives, they are useless, unrealistic and are only usefull on "twitch" arcade shooters, they should listen to ArmA players!

Training and real world implementation are 2 different things my friend. We also train for nuclear war, when is the last time that has happened?

[white 1]

Training and real world implementation are 2 different things my friend. We also train for nuclear war, when is the last time that has happened?

yet none of the 2 are unrealistic. what are all those US embargos against Iran and their nuclear program for again? exactly.

as rare as it may be, it does happen:

April 02, 2013, US soldier killed in knife attack by Afghan teen

http://azstarnet.com/news/world/us-soldier-killed-in-knife-attack-by-afghan-teen/article_7bda5f30-1224-53b8-9477-6671ed1a66c1.html

"Other guards nearby didn't immediately notice what had happened because there was no gunshot, and the assailant was able to flee to neighboring Pakistan, Khan said."

Edited April 29, 2013 by white

[Varanon 892]

- Knife kills is a must have

I won't even go into how "Call of Duty-ish" this is (yes, I said Call of Duty. Sue me).

But the question is "Why ?" Why are "Knife kills" a must have in Arma (a military sandbox game) ? Are you seriously believing that real soldiers use knifes for anything else but cutting open ammo packs and iron rations ?

The only reason for "knife kills" is to serve as some sort of "I'm so 1337"... or, some douchebag sending you a message saying "Just knifes, you and me". Happened to me when I was playing Call of Duty (yes, I played the first Modern Warfare a lot)

---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------

I believe soldiers carry knives on themselves.

Yes, I was in the army, and I had a knife... used it once to cut on a piece of wood because I was bored, and to open a field ration when the opening cord broke off.

The only valid reason to ask for melee weapons would IMHO be that melee weapons have been part of military since the dawn of time (swords, axes, etc).. but then, Arma does not cover this aspect of the military. If it would, you'd need bows, clubs, horses and all that stuff, too...

In essence, I think that military use of knifes as a weapon today is so minor that it would be a waste of resources to implement. Nice to have for mods like the A2 medieval mod, or DayZ, but not for core Arma.

Honestly, we have more pressing issues in A3 right now than a feature that the game could live without for ten years and has no practical application in modern military (which Arma IS about, after all)

[metalcraze 290]

as rare as it may be, it does happen:

April 02, 2013, US soldier killed in knife attack by Afghan teen

http://azstarnet.com/news/world/us-soldier-killed-in-knife-attack-by-afghan-teen/article_7bda5f30-1224-53b8-9477-6671ed1a66c1.html

"Other guards nearby didn't immediately notice what had happened because there was no gunshot, and the assailant was able to flee to neighboring Pakistan, Khan said."

"An Afghan teenager fatally stabbed an American soldier in the neck as he played with children in eastern Afghanistan"

Nice try to protect your "ArmA too hard, add press-to-win button" argument but you forgot to quote this part.

Unless playing with children is considered an operation in a combat area where soldiers expect an attack (esp. from children) - which would be new to me. Or was that kid a highly trained Al-Qaeda stealth op - was that your point?

as rare as it may be

Yes it's quite telling about how effective knives are when the reported knife kill is no different from a homicide in a random country.

Please more apples vs. oranges examples.

Edited April 29, 2013 by metalcraze

[eggbeast 3673]

i already made a mod for this - just haven't ported it over yet. will do in time.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?143142-static-and-turret-weapons-improvements-HE-and-AP-ammo-searchlights&highlight=eb_resources

[kremator 1064]

Sixty-seven more pages of drivel needed to match the previous 'I want melee thread'.

Guys face it .... it won't happen in vanilla Arma3. There are other things that need majorly fixing before this should even cross devs minds !