General Discussion (dev branch)

[chortles 263]

Sorry to Smookie(the animations dev) as he had to change the sprint speeds from many complaints on boards

Welcome to why people speak up on these boards, the perception of "if we scream loud enough they'll do what we want" :rolleyes: I saw it back during the Steamworks announcement, although at least that time BI didn't cave...

but I have to say it....I feel the running speed is now too slow.When crouched/running and you sprint it looks and feels like faster movement.When your standing/running and you then sprint its barely perceptible.Where before I felt like I was under fire and sprinting to avoid danger now it feels like a slightly faster run speed and I think RUN DAMMIT!!

The thing is, crouch sprint is actually slightly faster than standing sprint... :p

From some testing that I did last night thanks to Rye's help (in the form of a script for displaying movement speed) of straight-line (holding W) speeds with the most recent dev build, when your character is standing with a primary weapon up (default) the sprint speed is only somewhat faster than the jog speed, but the jog speed is noticeably higher than combat pace speed, which is noticeably higher than walk; leaning forces walk speed, and tapping RMB ("aim through sights", or ADS if you don't mind the COD term) from jog or sprint forces combat pace. When the primary weapon is lowered, however, the character actually moves slower... as far as crouching with a primary weapon, crouched sprint is indeed faster than standing sprint but only slightly while crouch jog and crouch walk are slower than standing -- but combat pace is slightly faster, it looks like. Movement speed actually seems slower with pistols in general, interestingly enough...

For what it's worth:

[*]these findings were irrespective of faction, soldier "class" or the specific primary weapon and/or pistol used, and whether or not I was using the hilly terrain around Camp Rogain or the flat runways of Stratis Air Base

[*]these findings were also using straight-line forward movement

[*]moving in any other direction(s) resulted in slower speeds, i.e. straight-line rearward, diagonally forward or diagonally rearward (the differences between left and right seemed minute, i.e. going into decimal places).

[*]encumbrance didn't seem to affect these speeds

[*]trying to straight-line strafe leftward or rightward resulted in some seemingly weird numbers, but at first glance it appeared that when standing or crouching in combat pace the character straight-line strafes rightward faster than leftward

[*]the specific stance variant (i.e. "high standing" or "slow standing") didn't seem to affect this either, since you temporarily return to the default stance when on the move and these stance adjusts only have effect when your character is stationary.

[*]I don't have the numbers for stable build.

MadDogX, so far for some reason the OA and A3 implementations of "zeroing" make long gun use look like the second of AKM74's diagrams...

Edited April 12, 2013 by Chortles

[Wolfstriked 11]

Reason why I was hesitant to speak is that I was one of the persons who upvoted the sprint speeds being too fast.:butbut:

[mr.g-c 6]

Where is the problem? Go out into the mud and try how fast you can really crouch, move while prone, jog sprint, etc in whatever stances, with fully loaded gear (BIS has nice Airsoft for such purposes). Then adopt 1:1 into the game - Quite simple actually.

The slower (realistic) a person can move in the game, the more important will organized transport become. And i very welcome this.

Icing on the cake would be variable moving speeds based on loadout. So a heavy dude with a Machinegun and 50pounds of additional gear/ammo is unlikely to sprint even 50meters....Heavy loadout dudes need transport.

Such properly implemented "limitations" would really push tactics even more. I would love it for the serious players upon us.

[metalcraze 290]

I like new jogging and sprinting speeds. They feel right now. Considering you are not some athlete wearing nothing but sports suit but a fully equipped soldier it just feels right.

Now if only BIS fixed the running uphill speeds because they are just as fast as moving on flat ground. And add inertia to sprinting. And make top speed dependent on load. Since fatigue seems to be unimportant now (soldier never walks anymore, just permajog it seems)

Of course one can dream that one day we will get different speeds depending on surfaces (for vehicles too)...

[antoineflemming 14]

Yeah, it does seem kinda better. But I'd say the regular walk with weapon is a bit too fast, the low ready right strafe animation is waaaaay too sped up, and there's one other walking animation that's way too fast. Other than that, it does seem to be better, and the walking animations actually are synced with the sounds now.

[dnk 13]

I did a video comparison, and the job/sprint/etc speeds were nearly 1:1 with OA. The only difference was that the tactical pace was much faster in OA. Silly for them to go through the process of altering it to something slower than OA, since it never felt off in that game.

[RuecanOnRails 10]

The slower your character moves on foot, the larger the map feels. It also helps with getting closer to a 1:1 scale (which the map is not)

I prefer the slower movement as other have stated our characters are not world class athletes, they are soldiers carrying a hundred pounds of gear.

I can't wait for the infantry movement to become more realistic. no more running full speed up or down inclines, movement speed scaled to the map, total weight of equipment affect mobility, and different terrain can allow you to move faster or slower.

None of that may ever happen but the nice thing with arma, there will be a mod for it.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Can't agree here.Feels more like a fast run while being shot I would be all out sprinting till exhaustion.A sweet spot between what it was before and what it is now would work for me but I see many peeps are happy with it now.If anything then I would like to see the jog with weapon up speed slightly slower to give sprinting some feel of faster movement.

[seamusgod 1]

what is this crap about hundreds of lbs of gear. i see on my guy a plate carrier, ammunition and a rifle and assorted light equipment. one some other guys like medic and engineer, at most 40lbs of gear on their back.

i do NOT want to see unrealistic slow poke movement simply because it makes the map feel larger. the stratis map is by comparison to altis, tiny, and it should stay that way. so if you want large island, wait for full game

but yes, the default speed is still a bit fast in things like strafing, it almost resembles the sideways gap jumping animation from the likes of counter strike. sorry for the insulting comparison, that's what it looks like however. maybe minimize the width of the gap at full extension when strafing?

[twisted 128]

i actually like the slower speed. feels way more natural. want to get somewhere fast, use a car. and i agree the strafing is a bit fast and might need some more obvious inertial effects.

Edited April 14, 2013 by twisted

[chortles 263]

None of that may ever happen but the nice thing with arma, there will be a mod for it.

Good, keep it that way. :rolleyes:

what is this crap about hundreds of lbs of gear. i see on my guy a plate carrier, ammunition and a rifle and assorted light equipment. one some other guys like medic and engineer, at most 40lbs of gear on their back.

i do NOT want to see unrealistic slow poke movement simply because it makes the map feel larger.

Realism: they like it up until it's faster, more fluid and more responsive than they imagine? See my forum sig. :p

But I'm in agreement with you here; I would note however that it seems that lightening one's load, i.e. by removing the plate carrier, doesn't seem to actually affect the movement speeds either. Oh, and for some reason rightward standing movement seems faster than leftward; no idea if that's intentional.

From my earlier testing with Rye's support, in the 0.55.103960 dev build, infantry movement speeds are apparently slower than with stable branch but the difference seems to be by varying amounts depending on the stance and movement speed category (i.e. jog vs. combat pace). For example, with the weapon raised, crouch jog vs. crouch combat pace is much closer than standing jog vs. standing tactical pace -- by which I mean that standing jog is actually closer to standing sprint than to standing tactical pace! However, compared to the preceding build (103923) that had all those CTD's with empty weapon slots it definitely feels more "real" in the sense that 103923's infantry movement felt "nerfed" in having a more "artificially slowed down" feel, whereas in 103960 the movement speeds were seemingly dialed back up to an extent that seems less "artificial".

I will note however that there are some odd moments, particularly seeming moments of possible inconsistency, such as for example the "sitting" animation is noticeably slower when wielding a pistol than when wielding a long gun, and there's still moments where certain actions such as weapon transitioning will force you out of the adjusted stance variant such as sitting or urban prone into the default stance such as default prone... to me that's even more immersion-breaking than fast infantry movement or 1:1 weapon-aim-to-mouse-movement. :p

Edited April 13, 2013 by Chortles

[lordprimate 159]

my $0.02,

When i sprint. I stride.. There is a large space in between steps.. In arma 2 when you sprint.. you stride.. your character looks like he is sprinting at full speed.. In arma 3 however, sprint is not a sprint... its a horse trot. Actually take the time to look and compare the two.. The sprint in Arma 3 is very restricted.. you take short steps , quickly .. It is a Very Unrealistic Sprint!!!.... You should have long strides , and look as if your actually sprinting... the current speeds and animations for sprint suck IMHO. Arma 3 needs a real sprint not small quick steps, but long leg strides (what a sprint actually is)...

EDITED DAY'S LATER:

I want to say that when I posted this I was vauge, I really am only talking about the Animations. the Speed is fine!!! Just the stiff and ridged, anims while sprinting.. And I agree there should be a difference in speed when your gear'd up or not. The lighter you are the more fluid and flighty your sprint should be, the more gear the more clunky and arduous the sprint should be...

Edited April 16, 2013 by Lordprimate

[chortles 263]

Lordprimate, Wolf, I'd file a ticket of your own as calling sprint unrealistically slowed... that's right, push back against the "sprinting unrealistically fast" crowd. ;) And have you compared these against the stable build's movement speeds?

Unfortunately I have no idea how much of this is intentional, and unlike in 2012 before the big "quiet down" after the incident, or the early post-public alpha release period (i.e. in that one "Better animations?" thread that basically led to a guy publicly regretting buying a Supporter Edition when Smookie dared to defend his work, and telling BI to use paid actors next time instead of Smookie :rolleyes: ) we haven't had Vespa and Smookie being nearly as talkative as in the post-Gamescom period about explaining things.

For example, it's only through a Smookie comment from that thread that we know that being able to stay in combat pace when aiming through sights" is intentional (due to "recent design decisions")... I don't recall many further comments from the animations devs or Jay Crowe (who seems like he had a lot of influence on the infantry movement/weapon handling aspects) since the early post-public alpha release period, I'm afraid, so things are definitely opaque as hell.

As someone else said earlier, we currently only have bits and pieces such as past forums comments, media interviews, Feedback Tracker comments, and subjective interpretation as to how much of the infantry aspects are "set in stone as-is", "placeholder" or "basic foundation decided on but subject to refinement and tweaking", and this is the closest that we have other than said Feedback Tracker comments to see what the devs consider to be issues-to-be-corrected.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Chortles

[mr.g-c 6]

Can't agree here.Feels more like a fast run while being shot I would be all out sprinting till exhaustion.A sweet spot between what it was before and what it is now would work for me but I see many peeps are happy with it now.If anything then I would like to see the jog with weapon up speed slightly slower to give sprinting some feel of faster movement.

How about you watch this and see what happens if you are under fire and fully loaded....

[Serclaes 0]

How about you watch this and see what happens if you are under fire and fully loaded....

... and in really shitty terrain. But yeah, I get what you mean. Iirc the sprinting speed in arma2 was even faster than Usain Bolt on 100m. Granted, I don't know about Usain's peak speed but I doubt you could outrun Usain with boots and combat gear.

Edit:

Maybe see this for reference:

1:05 shows some would-be fast running. Edited April 13, 2013 by Serclaes

[Wolfstriked 11]

A few things wrong here.

The running speed is just that,running.All these people asking for realism and slowing down the sprint speed for some reason overlook running speeds.But your running with weapon shouldered and it should wind the hell out of you quickly of which it does.

I posted this in another thread titled "should lowered weapon be default" and I also posted that maybe a way to force lowering the weapon is to make it so that you can recover stamina to allow you to be able to sprint again after awhile.I am back with this idea as it just feels right.Go into editor and place character on airbase and then lower weapon and jog across it.By the end of the airbase you will be winded and not be able to sprint.Look at the animation though and tell me that a soldier jogging at that speed will be totally winded and not be able to sprint while jogging on flat surface.Now RUN across and the character looks like he SHOULD become winded and not be able to sprint.So I suggest to add in ability to recover stamina by lowering weapon which will force players to travel at more realistic speeds.

And while you are at airbase go external and run then sprint for a few times to see what I mean.While running looks right and connected sprinting though the animation looks faster but it does not match the slight speed increase.

And I agree the animation seems a bit stiff.Slightly longer leg strides and a bit of lean forward?

TL:)DR...."slightly" faster sprint speed and stamina recovery when jogging would feel more natural.Fix the animations so that weapon raising doesn't force player to stop for a second while jogging/point weapon at target/lower weapon and begin running.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Wolfstriked

[heruon 1]

Earlier in the dev build, the lack of speed of sound was fixed, which is great. However it seems to me like it was mostly fixed for weapons. I've tested a bit and the sound of helicopters still seem to be instant. I'm guessing this also applies to other vehicles as well. Anyone else noticed this? It's not a big deal with cars and helicopters, but when jets come in to play I really wish this will be fixed.

Also, a helicopter flying at 1km distance from you makes the sound of the heli come and go, so I'm guessing the maximum distance for that sound is 1km. It would be better if the sound fades out properly, imo. So anyone else noticed speed of sound not being present for vehicles?

[ericfr 0]

Cannot see the gear from map (only "chat log"), very annoying to manage the team items.

[chortles 263]

TL:)DR...."slightly" faster sprint speed and stamina recovery when jogging would feel more natural.Fix the animations so that weapon raising doesn't force player to stop for a second while jogging/point weapon at target/lower weapon and begin running.

From what I recall the plan/rule is that stamina recovery only occurs at walk, while combat pace, jog and sprint have differing levels/amounts of stamina depletion.

[Mr. Charles 22]

Sprint is useless now :|

It feels like a 5% increase in speed, but the fatigue seems the same now.

[chortles 263]

And yet people still want it nerfed further. :rolleyes:

[metalcraze 290]

Sprint speed is fine. Watch that video - soldier there sprints under fire even slower than what we have in A3 now. A3 dudes can sprint faster disregarding terrain.

If anything the update finally fixed the annoying "I will outrun bullets" issue we had and people should use jog more instead of sprint. Yes you are not an olympic athlete anymore, such is life.

Now limit the ridiculous faster than light turning speed while sprinting and it will be even better.

Edited April 13, 2013 by metalcraze

[ak1287 1]

Wasn't there also video evidence that countered the 'faster-than-light turning speed' argument?

I seem to remember an entire thread on that. So, if we can use video evidence to prove something (sprinting speed is unrealistic, even if that may or may not be true) than we can use it to disprove something else (turning speed is unrealistic). You can't have it go one way, and not the other.

Edit: I'm not referring to the (obviously) incomplete turning speed while prone or crouched. I'm referring to the turning speed while standing. There's a necessary abstraction, in which your feet don't move, but turning 180 degrees, even while in motion is entirely possible. It shouldn't take forever and a day to move your cursor over there.

Now, from a full sprint, I think your body should have some inertia. Move forward a few steps, and then turn.

Edited April 13, 2013 by ak1287

[chortles 263]

Even the evidence you see just ends up subjectively interpreted anyway, so there's no real good answer there.

[samatra 85]

Last dev updates completely changed self-healing animation and removed old AinvPknlMstpSlayWrflDnon_medic animation which was extremely useful. I suggest to include both new and old animations. Ticket: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=7155