New Helicopter flight model by HTR dev

[SpinNaker 10]

+1 :)

[krazikilla 5]

So Fred, any news?

Did u get hired already?

Did they give you tools to help them?

*positivenewsawaitingimpatiently*

[Scoggs 1]

So Fred, any news?

Did u get hired already?

Did they give you tools to help them?

*positivenewsawaitingimpatiently*

Very much this ^

[Ezcoo 47]

I'm not very worried about the lack of news, maybe BIS hired him and he had to sign a NDA...? :D

Fingers crossed...

[FredAirland 14]

I had news from Bis. Plans for the flight model in ARMA3 are not final yet, but I currently do not see much enthousiasm in HTR integration.

I respect people that have much more experience that I have, and I was possibly wrong with Rotorlib potential.

I will be glad to help in any way I can.

Fred

Edited March 28, 2013 by fred64

[kremator 1065]

87% saying YES isn't too much enthusiasm?

[RuecanOnRails 10]

I have to agree that there is a lot of enthusiasm towards implementing a new simulator flight model.

At least from the public community that shares input.

Of the people who read the boards, only a small number of them post, of the people who post, only a small number of them participate in polls. Of those people there is nearly 90% that would like to see this happen. Of course the demographic is somewhat biased as the majority of people with input are already geared towards realism in this military sim. That still shouldn't sway the results of the poll even if voting was done by a larger majority of gamers.

The ability to fly via actual flight mechanics into a firefight and provide support to actual players on the ground would be amazing.

Most of the people saying not interested or saying no in posts most likely fear change. They have never tried an accurate helicopter simulator and when they hear simulator they think it will make it impossible to pick up and fly. In reality it's easier to fly with an accurate flight model than it is to fly in a gravity defying arcade mess. Current helicopters perform closer to fixed wing aircraft.

If there is anything we, the people who support this idea can do. Let us know I'd be more than happy to help with input and time testing.

[FredAirland 14]

Sorry I was misunderstood, I see a lot of enthousiasm from the community, I was referring to BIS reply...

[RuecanOnRails 10]

yeah, I had assumed you meant from BIS, as they have their own pre-planned roadmap set in place. It's why I referred to the public community, not BIS as here in this thread alone there is nothing but excitement for a realistic flight model.

I would still like to see your work brought over to arma 3 whether officially supported or just as a mod. Although it might be best to wait a bit to see what BIS does with the helicopters that way when they make massive changes your work up until then would not go wasted.

Hopefully with some time BIS will open up a little more with their plans and whether they include the addition of a modified TKOH flight model. I think it's still to early in Alpha release to even begin looking at the flight models. All resources are and should be focused on infantry and fixing very large bugs. Once beta is out, their direction for the flight models should become more clear.

[JackSpyder 10]

I'd love this but i feel you'd be doing twice the work by starting now. For something like this where we know BI are going to implement further flight model enhancements throughout the test phases I'd wait until we have the full base game. Then you can tweek and improve what they bring. I'd think this will give you a much more powerful base line to work from and bring an even better finished product.

To jump in now may require constant updates as the game evolves through alpha/beta. Though if you're totally up for that, then hell yes!

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Voted yes :) one question: does this affect the AI flying behaviors too?

^ This is the question that will influence the decision. Will the AI piloting FSM's have to be re-written and tested?

[chrisb 196]

This is such a shame it wasn’t caught earlier (a lot earlier probably). What’s been said regards how far along BIS are already into the game-play, changing now could just set things back too much. Maybe some sort of mod, although not sure how that would be implemented without it affecting ai behaviour. @fred64, you may know the answer to that..

[4 IN 1 0]

I personally is not that much of FSX helicopter fan given that the limitation the old engine have, it surely do the job somewhat decently, but not as good as X plane did.

[Alwarren 2767]

Arma has always been about combined arms yes, but why should that fact alone limit a it's capacity?

All too often I see this reason pop up, it's not focused to this, it's not focused to that. This...I just don't understand it, why should we want to impede progress, to willingly halt what the engine is capable of?

I can understand that logistics may not be feaseable, the vast array of what must already be done and the fact that Arma 3's current goal is to sharpen rough edges but to say that it should not be expended upon simply because it should be focused on a limited capacity? Why actively seek to hold it back?

If you have a complex flight model for helicopters, you will need to have someone that can fly it, or you will not be able to have helicopters in a mission. AFAIK, the flight model in ToH is not switchable, so you don't have the choice. I do not feel it a good idea to require this. If it were switchable, fine, but not at the expense of having to have a qualified pilot.

[TheCrusader 10]

There are levels of difficulty in TOH, the easiest which is as simple as the ARMA one.

And the AI can fly well in TOH too, so there is absolutely no downside to providing an realistic expert flight model to the people who would like to have one IMHO.

[Two Dogs 12]

The AI can't fly worth a damn anyway. If that wasn't on the list of things that improvement, it should be. In the case of difficulty. I like to play on realism servers and the current flight simulation just breaks the immersion. Adjustable difficulty levels is the ultimate solution. Different strokes for different folks.

[Alwarren 2767]

There are levels of difficulty in TOH, the easiest which is as simple as the ARMA one.

And the AI can fly well in TOH too, so there is absolutely no downside to providing an realistic expert flight model to the people who would like to have one IMHO.

Yesterday, I started to replay CWR2's Cold War Crisis remake, and the chopper that was supposed to take out the armor in Morton crashed four times in a row, not because it was shot down but because the pilot just didn't get over the trees. While AI flying has dramatically improved in the latest builds, it still is more than a bit flaky. Driving AI is even worse; I don't know how much it improved in Arma 3, but at least in Arma 2, watching a convoy is a sobering affair.

But this was about opinion, and my opinion is that a realistic flight model for helicopters is not something I would be interested int, which was the question of the poll. We don't have a realistic flight model for planes either, and our cars still only have one gear and make skid noises even on grass. The car physics is IMO something that is much more interesting, at least to me, but I still wouldn't want a simulation of transmission, gear, and similar aspects, because I feel that these things are not important for the overall experience of the game.

[samb 15]

If You have realistic FM on the easiest settings nothing changes- same people that crashed with current Arma FM will do it with simplified TOH FM (which is actually easier to fly than Arma IMHO). On top of that You get dedicated community with great flying skills- these will deliver ground troops and pick them up safely using advanced FM decreasing average accident rate. Then there are mods and other community content that will arrive with us...

[lt_darkman 0]

If You have realistic FM on the easiest settings nothing changes- same people that crashed with current Arma FM will do it with simplified TOH FM (which is actually easier to fly than Arma IMHO). On top of that You get dedicated community with great flying skills- these will deliver ground troops and pick them up safely using advanced FM decreasing average accident rate. Then there are mods and other community content that will arrive with us...

Yep, I can't see any downside to this; assuming BI can incorporate it into Arma3 nobody will be unhappy as you can use whichever FM you prefer.

[Planetside 1]

Yep, I can't see any downside to this; assuming BI can incorporate it into Arma3 nobody will be unhappy as you can use whichever FM you prefer.

BI won't add it judging from fred64's reply.

[striderjg 1]

BI won't add it judging from fred64's reply.

Planetside, your confusing fred64's HTR and TKOH FM. The latest official word about TKOH is that it will be in and at this point I pretty much consider that a promise. There was some waffling on some specifics that they had stated earlier though which was worrying.

[Planetside 1]

Planetside, your confusing fred64's HTR and TKOH FM. The latest official word about TKOH is that it will be in and at this point I pretty much consider that a promise. There was some waffling on some specifics that they had stated earlier though which was worrying.

They have not confirmed that either afaik.

[striderjg 1]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?135549-Arma-3-amp-TOH&p=2166652&viewfull=1#post2166652

[max power 21]

Yesterday, I started to replay CWR2's Cold War Crisis remake, and the chopper that was supposed to take out the armor in Morton crashed four times in a row, not because it was shot down but because the pilot just didn't get over the trees. While AI flying has dramatically improved in the latest builds, it still is more than a bit flaky. Driving AI is even worse; I don't know how much it improved in Arma 3, but at least in Arma 2, watching a convoy is a sobering affair.

That could be a lot of things, including incorrect mission parameters. If a helicopter is crashing over and over, it means (at the very least) something could change with the mission, or even something is wrong with the helicopter! There is nothing standard with our mod.

If it's a CWR2 mission, we would appreciate your bug reports. We would also appreciate you not use our very complex, very custom mod as evidence towards some aspect of BI's default behaviour.

[chortles 263]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?135549-Arma-3-amp-TOH&p=2166652&viewfull=1#post2166652

It has since been dialed back around the time of the alpha release to "still planned" but DnA added that it wasn't guaranteed that Arma 3's vanilla helicopters would use a TKOH flight model even after final release.