MCC Sandbox 3 - Dynamic mission creating tool for ArmA 3

[Skagget 11]

I cant praise MCC enough for what it has done for the community and endless players/GMs all around. It has really elevated the gameplay for its easy to use and fast insertions of units etc.

What I do want to talk about is the route it seems to be taking and what Im wanting to see.

When I started to use MCC it was for its easy to use (when you learned it) way of tweak the gameplay for the players. It was its way for me as a GameMaster to really change and add/remove things, that caught my love for MCC. From the way it was easy to build camps, fobs, patrols, ambushes on the fly etc.. made missions something new.

What I see now is that MCC is taking a slightly diffrent route. Now I see a more AltisLife/DayZ/Survive -mod going on, where you get food, player added interactions, keybinds for shoutings etc. But I dont really like the idea its making, I want the focus to be on missionbuilding and not the player-interactions towards a survivalmod. There are so many diffrent mods out there that does it and communities use with MCC so that MCC get bloated with to much actions. What I mean is that; speaking for myself.. my group uses AGM for its almost ACE feel. And thats a great mod for just that, altering the players interactions and battle awareness. But AGM and MCC together gets kinda bloated, in AGM you have the ability to take people prisoners, move objects, load vehicles etc.. and then get MCC to do that too.. it gets to much.

And yes; I hear you already " dont use AGM and try use only MCC ", right ?

- Well I want it to be focusdriven mods, where AGM focus its core to the playerinteraction, awareness etc.. and MCC focus its core on missionbuilding. You dont need MCC to be everything, its a great tool and alot is still to expand within the missionbuilding, aswell as develop more on existing platform of MCC. I mean I would like to get a more advanced mission-wizard, more option on spawning, the logistic-update that was made have a lot of things it can expand on.. but there are some ideas that it works very well with MCC. As the brushes that have been included; they are great, the lock doors is a neat new trick. And then you have "how to interact with the locked doors"; I would have said an option to go AGM way as its open source. Better to team up with a mod that uses a player interaction as its main focus and then focus MCC to the mission edit stuff.

What I would like to see, at least, is a way to enable/disable the new features, make it as AGM if you want to go that route as modules pbo where you can include them into the game experience if you want or delete them if you dont want them. So lets say I want just MCC for its missionbuilding I include the core MCC pbo, but if I want the Survival mod then I include that pbo. Or just an Enable/Disable function in the login. As of now, Im getting alot of functions and items that I dont want or dont feel I need at all, so a way to shut it off would be great.

Not hating, just would have seen it taking the route of more mission making then another AGM/CSE/LIFE mod addition to it.

Dont know if it all makes sense or if Im just dribbled myself away in my thoughts.. :)

[shay_gman 272]

Hi,

Is it possibile to use an AI mod with MCC? Gaia maintains the squads, I'm trying to change the behavior of individual enemy soldiers for a greater immersion.

TY

You pretty much answered your own question - as GAIA handle squad level there shouldn't be any issues with low level AI mods (you might want to turn off GAIA smoke grenades though if it is handled by the AI mod).

I cant praise MCC enough for what it has done for the community and endless players/GMs all around. It has really elevated the gameplay for its easy to use and fast insertions of units etc.

What I do want to talk about is the route it seems to be taking and what Im wanting to see.

When I started to use MCC it was for its easy to use (when you learned it) way of tweak the gameplay for the players. It was its way for me as a GameMaster to really change and add/remove things, that caught my love for MCC. From the way it was easy to build camps, fobs, patrols, ambushes on the fly etc.. made missions something new.

What I see now is that MCC is taking a slightly diffrent route. Now I see a more AltisLife/DayZ/Survive -mod going on, where you get food, player added interactions, keybinds for shoutings etc. But I dont really like the idea its making, I want the focus to be on missionbuilding and not the player-interactions towards a survivalmod. There are so many diffrent mods out there that does it and communities use with MCC so that MCC get bloated with to much actions. What I mean is that; speaking for myself.. my group uses AGM for its almost ACE feel. And thats a great mod for just that, altering the players interactions and battle awareness. But AGM and MCC together gets kinda bloated, in AGM you have the ability to take people prisoners, move objects, load vehicles etc.. and then get MCC to do that too.. it gets to much.

And yes; I hear you already " dont use AGM and try use only MCC ", right ?

- Well I want it to be focusdriven mods, where AGM focus its core to the playerinteraction, awareness etc.. and MCC focus its core on missionbuilding. You dont need MCC to be everything, its a great tool and alot is still to expand within the missionbuilding, aswell as develop more on existing platform of MCC. I mean I would like to get a more advanced mission-wizard, more option on spawning, the logistic-update that was made have a lot of things it can expand on.. but there are some ideas that it works very well with MCC. As the brushes that have been included; they are great, the lock doors is a neat new trick. And then you have "how to interact with the locked doors"; I would have said an option to go AGM way as its open source. Better to team up with a mod that uses a player interaction as its main focus and then focus MCC to the mission edit stuff.

What I would like to see, at least, is a way to enable/disable the new features, make it as AGM if you want to go that route as modules pbo where you can include them into the game experience if you want or delete them if you dont want them. So lets say I want just MCC for its missionbuilding I include the core MCC pbo, but if I want the Survival mod then I include that pbo. Or just an Enable/Disable function in the login. As of now, Im getting alot of functions and items that I dont want or dont feel I need at all, so a way to shut it off would be great.

Not hating, just would have seen it taking the route of more mission making then another AGM/CSE/LIFE mod addition to it.

Dont know if it all makes sense or if Im just dribbled myself away in my thoughts.. :)

I like your post and i'll first start by saying: Every thing in MCC can be turned off - read the spoiler part in the first post of this thread. So if you don't want interaction for example you can turn it off, if you don't want the survival stuff - turn it off.

Now i'll end up by explaining (again) what are we doing and what are we trying to achive: the reason to start with interaction stuff was that BI addaction thing is local and need to br placed on each object for each JIP so we have thought about something more convinent. And since we already there we thought: "Hey why not expand it a bit and add some functions that players do use". So we end up with the current interaction system (which you can turn off).

Regarding the future of MCC - so far we have provided a lot of building blocks to create all kind of missions: from co-op to PvP, logistics, survival, mission generators and a whole new level of AI (GAIA). Now to show the full power of MCC we are trying to combine all this buildings blocks to a few mission templates (again the focus is to keep it modular so players using MCC just to spawn ammo crates or something else can turn off stuff).

What I have in mind for the mission templates are:

1. Project reality kind of PvP - we already have most of the building blocks as logistics, roles, progression and achivments, commander interface, squad leader interface (PDA), what we are missing: supression system and medic system - I would also want to work on the cover system of ArmA atm.

2. PvE RP Camapaign - Base building, while scavenging for supplies and building your base while getting missions and missions's rewards from MCC and fighting against opfor AI and maybe rival Player's faction - we again have most of the buildings blocks (i'm finishing the RTS atm) but we'll need some more blocks and tie them together.

There might by more templates or more variaty to templates type but the main idea is to do somethign else - to give the players or the GM a way to inroduce their playstyle easy without the hassle of writing a new mod - just turn off or on some MCC modules and have a blast.

Now you as GM shouldn't be worry as you'll end up with more bricks to play with but if don't like one of the bricks just disable it and if you can't disable it just let me know and u'll get an option to disable it in the next update. So you shouldn't be worry.

BTW if you have ideas for MCC always post them here as we would love to implement new stuff.

Edit:

I've forgot to answer the guy about flashbang entry - I don't know about any flashbang device that can open doors - so I don't know what are you asking for. You can unlock the door and throw a flashbang inside you don't have to breach by force.

Edited October 30, 2014 by shay_gman

[tortuosit 486]

Why do you want to work on supression/cover system, as it's already available with bCombat/tpw_ebs/ww_aicover...?

What I see now is that MCC is taking a slightly diffrent route.

This is interesting. I was thinking the same. But to be honest I didn't want to insult Shay and really don't want him to get this wrong. But in all honesty and respect, I was more interested in Spirits changes. GAIA. AI behaviour. Populating the map with AI and combat scenarios... But still, if some changes smell a bit like attracting the Altis Life folks, we still should see that they may be useful for milsim as well. And we're not forced to use them. And hey, as Shay says, its modular, we should not fear it could be bloated.

Edited October 30, 2014 by tortuosit

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

About locked door:

can I "unlocked" it by empty half a clip at the lock ? It would be great for CQB where some doors could be locked but you don't have the time nor the skill to pick the lock properly.

[shay_gman 272]

Why do you want to work on supression/cover system, as it's already available with bCombat/tpw_ebs/ww_aicover...?

This is interesting. I was thinking the same. But to be honest I didn't want to insult Shay and really don't want him to get this wrong. But in all honesty and respect, I was more interested in Spirits changes. GAIA. AI behaviour. Populating the map with AI... But still, if some changes smell a bit like attracting the Altis Life folks, we still should see that they may be useful for milsim as well. And we're not forced to use them.

Don't worry as all the game changing changes will be by default off (expect for the interaction that is needed for the hostages/ied exc). And i'm not going to compete with altis Life things as I think ArmA should stay in the milsim area (it will be a shame if the MANO contest winner will be a mod that actually make a not arma game out of arma).

And populating the map with AI is exactly what we are striving for to create a campaign generator where you would pick your game style and MCC will keep on producing missions depends on your game style (if you want to offcourse) we in no shape or form changing MCC concept but have a little faith as the cards will unfold.

Oh and btw I've ment the player supression not the AI

Edited October 30, 2014 by shay_gman

[bux578 65]

@shay_gman mcc breaks grenades

class Throw: GrenadeLauncher
{
   muzzles[] = {"SUPER_flash_Muzzle"};
   class ThrowMuzzle;
   class SUPER_flash_Muzzle: ThrowMuzzle
   {
       magazines[] = {"SUPER_flash"};
   };
};

Should use "+="

https://github.com/KoffeinFlummi/AGM/issues/1463

[esteldunedain 10]

Due to a recent change in the binarizer, you should replace = by += in line 3 of super_flash/CfgWeapons.hpp. That line is breaking all other grenades. See https://github.com/KoffeinFlummi/AGM/issues/1463#issuecomment-61128932

[redarmy 422]

Shay

A i must say im getting extremely fond og the MCC brushes.Great idea.

I have seen it expand to be better and better.Like the option to add add flashlights,it would be most welcoming to have a brush to add supressors also.Maybe even lasers on?

You know,for the guys leading AI.Considering your endeavour into alot of neat CQB features,i believe people would appreciate these extra brushes at some point in time ;)

[Silver_ 10]

Can someone tell me how I can edit/delete zones, please?

[Mr_IC 10]

I don't know about any flashbang device that can open doors - so I don't know what are you asking for. You can unlock the door and throw a flashbang inside you don't have to breach by force.

What I mean is - the claymore entry is a larger type explosion. You and your squad have to be some distance from it, which is great if lethal force is the only approach necessary.

I was thinking you could make a 'flashbang' type explosive breach with a smaller blast. Small enough that a team could be stacked along the wall right up to the door, and all that's needed perhaps is to turn heads as its detonated. This way several things could be done at once: door opened, everyone (mostly) on the inside stunned, and those stacked outside can enter a split second later.

This would really shine in your Capture HVT objective within MW. Many times you find the HVT guarded by more than 1 bad guy in a room or exterior building. It would be perfect for these types of situations, where you need to be in asap with non-lethal but disabling force.

EDIT:

So you have tpw_ebs running together with bCombat and ww_aicover? I'm interested. Maybe you could upload all 3 config files so we can have a look. TIA...

Because I cannot see what part of tpw_ebs you can use then without interference. Supression is handled by bCombat, find cover by ww_aicover...

Hey tortuosit - what's cool about TPW_EBS and WW AICover is the author of AICover actually wants users to run EBS with his mod. He intended his mod to use the suppression features found in TPW.

As far as making all of this work with bCombat, yes I do keep the suppression features there as well. However, suppression's main feature in bCombat is to inflict morale penalties into the AI, which it does very well. The parts I disabled within bCombat that would definitely conflict/overlap are hearing (from AICover) and 'Seek Cover' modules.

So what's left over is a really strong combination of effects on the AI - the most visible being how quickly they move once they detect contact, thanks to custom user settings within TPW.

I was in Chernarus last night messing around, and when this Iranian SF guy knew I was in the same yard with him, he sprinted from the face of the building all the way around to the rear where I was. Thanks to the wonderful sounds of ArmA, I heard him and popped from my corner, hip firing a burst or two right at him.

That dude was moving with a purpose. Other times you might find them crouch walking, almost creeping up to you or near you. The great thing about Chernarus too, with AI mods and all, is constantly hearing footsteps all around you as they flank and try to figure out exactly where you're at. Way creepier than a bunch of zombies honestly.

I don't want to derail such a fantastic thread though, so pm me if you have any other questions. Also I host coop missions all the time, if you or anyone else wants to run some coop, let me know.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Mr_IC

[shay_gman 272]

I've said i'll release a hot-fix within a few hours you don't have to remind me that every day :cool:

No seriously, I'm afraid I won't be able to release a fix till tomorrow evening so please hold tight.

I've taken into consideration some of you thoughts and i'll disable the search, survival part as it doesn't bring any value at this point (it was more like my experience with loot system and map object and not spawning hundreds of items as in Dayz exc).

Due to a recent change in the binarizer, you should replace = by += in line 3 of super_flash/CfgWeapons.hpp. That line is breaking all other grenades. See https://github.com/KoffeinFlummi/AGM/issues/1463#issuecomment-61128932

Thanks.

Can someone tell me how I can edit/delete zones, please?

You can't delete zones but you can edit them by clicking on the zone and dragging or holding Ctrl or Shift key to re-size or rotate. Read the help part in the lower part of the MCC interface.

What I mean is - the claymore entry is a larger type explosion. You and your squad have to be some distance from it, which is great if lethal force is the only approach necessary.

I was thinking you could make a 'flashbang' type explosive breach with a smaller blast. Small enough that a team could be stacked along the wall right up to the door, and all that's needed perhaps is to turn heads as its detonated. This way several things could be done at once: door opened, everyone (mostly) on the inside stunned, and those stacked outside can enter a split second later.

This would really shine in your Capture HVT objective within MW. Many times you find the HVT guarded by more than 1 bad guy in a room or exterior building. It would be perfect for these types of situations, where you need to be in asap with non-lethal but disabling force.

Got that i'll see what I can do about that.

[jcae2798 132]

shay_gman, i asked earlier not sure if you missed it, but when Generating missions, the zones are visible to my in both the map and console. Can i disable this? This is in SP mode. I also check the mission settings part of the console and it didn't seem to make any difference by me hiding the markers there for groups. BTW yes i am selecting hide markers during mission generating. I'd appreciate some guidance here.

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

I've taken into consideration some of you thoughts and i'll disable the search, survival part as it doesn't bring any value at this point (it was more like my experience with loot system and map object and not spawning hundreds of items as in Dayz exc).

May be you should keep MCC to its usual features (ie mission making, ambient brush...Etc) and develop a separate mod for the survival stuff and all your other gameplay ideas for the player side ( in opposition to MCC dedicated to mission making).

[Rapax 10]

I try to create a separate zone with a bunch of guys and some vehicles and let the AI call them in when GAIA feels that they are necessary. That simulates real reinforcements arriving when the AI thinks they need them the most. I have seen helos bring troops in on occasion or maybe that was someone doing that manually but if its not supported having helos transport reinforcements from other zones like the trucks do would be amazing. Even better if they could fast rope the units they brought with them in. The possibilities are endless but that sorta goes along with the AI flight models being very broken. (Especially for much larger planes in the USAF addon. The default Arma AI just can not handle those things.)

I support this idea

[paulone 10]

I've said i'll release a hot-fix within a few hours you don't have to remind me that every day :cool:

The new revised update will add advanced features reinforcements? Or this option need not wait until the next full update?

shay_gman In a tab spawn there is an option "reinforcement". You press - the reinforcement comes or arrives. It would be interesting if the reinforcement arrived not "by the button", and "on a condition". For example. You create a zone, units and a plot. You press beforehand at creation of the zone "reinforcement on ropes". The reinforcement will arrive at one of conditions: 1) in a zone there were not less than 10 enemies or 2) the Player with team stayed zony more than 20 minutes. That is it seems as a reinforcement call emitation on a handheld transceiver through certain time.

The mission generator work this way. When you select reinforcement in MW settings they will come only when the opfor forces have been decreased by certain interval. I'll see what we can do to put it in the spawn menu.

[alexgardien5 6]

MCC Sandbox seems to break the High Command module is there a fix ? I can't see the squads icons inside command mode.

[spirit6 51]

Occupied real real real on work. I go produce a video about ambient combat, it's current state, it future use and what i need to know from you guys :) And optional use is MCC guys. We wont throw any 'must haves' in your face and if we do, we will correct it :P I am sure that did not answer anybody lol :P

[Raytesh 10]

What I mean is - the claymore entry is a larger type explosion. You and your squad have to be some distance from it, which is great if lethal force is the only approach necessary.

I was thinking you could make a 'flashbang' type explosive breach with a smaller blast. Small enough that a team could be stacked along the wall right up to the door, and all that's needed perhaps is to turn heads as its detonated. This way several things could be done at once: door opened, everyone (mostly) on the inside stunned, and those stacked outside can enter a split second later.

This would really shine in your Capture HVT objective within MW. Many times you find the HVT guarded by more than 1 bad guy in a room or exterior building. It would be perfect for these types of situations, where you need to be in asap with non-lethal but disabling force.

What your looking for is a breaching charge that you can place on the door hinges to blow the door completely off the hinges. I hope that Arma can simulate such a charge because that would be great to have for any number of occasions. Also another option to this would be to allow shotguns to breach doors. One or 2 rounds into the door frame around the handle will free most normal doors. Shooting the hinges is the 2nd option. I wouldn't mind seeing specific breaching rounds put into the game to help simulate this. But shotguns are something that don't see a lot of love in Arma.

[ChuWie 11]

You pretty much answered your own question - as GAIA handle squad level there shouldn't be any issues with low level AI mods (you might want to turn off GAIA smoke grenades though if it is handled by the AI mod).[...]

How can we disable GAIAs function for infantries to through smokes?

[spirit6 51]

How can we disable GAIAs function for infantries to through smokes?

Click mission settings button in MCC on the top right. There are GAIA settings you can set, including use of smoke.

[ChuWie 11]

Found it, thank you :)

[-fusion- 10]

MCC Sandbox seems to break the grenades .. any temporary fix for that?

Edited October 31, 2014 by -FusioN-

[Mr_IC 10]

MCC Sandbox seems to break the grenades .. any temporary fix for that?

Heads up @everyone - obviously not much going on in this page, but everyone just now getting r10 up needs to go back and check the last 1-3 pages. The MCC guys are well aware of this and shay is all over it. Thanks!

[Silver_ 10]

You can't delete zones but you can edit them by clicking on the zone and dragging or holding Ctrl or Shift key to re-size or rotate. Read the help part in the lower part of the MCC interface.

Thanks, it seems like I was blind and didn't see the help section :rolleyes:

In the manual I saw that you could change the angle of a trigger in the old versions. Is there a option for that in the new version and how can I edit/delete triggers after I placed them?

Thanks for any advice :)

[Maczed 10]

How come i can't access the MCC menu when i hijack an ai in multiplayer? it shows up on the action menu but when i click it nothing happens.