ARMA 3 - still unrealistic optics

[daze23 1]

one problem with using any kind of 'blur' is people will negate it by turning Post Processing off

[defk0n_NL 2]

one problem with using any kind of 'blur' is people will negate it by turning Post Processing off

i dont see how this would impact performance in a negative way lol. it would probably be a 10-20FPS boost. look at how small the hi-res render circle would be.

[Smurf 12]

i dont see how this would impact performance in a negative way lol. it would probably be a 10-20FPS boost. look at how small the hi-res render circle would be.

The problem is not the performance but the advantage of seeing outside the scope that well.

I liked what you did there, but what about refresh rate on\off the scope?

[daze23 1]

i dont see how this would impact performance in a negative way lol. it would probably be a 10-20FPS boost. look at how small the hi-res render circle would be.

I was talking about Post Processing. a lot of people have it 'off' regardless, and it tends to deal with any 'blur' effects

but the fact you can turn PiP off would also be an issue

Edited June 3, 2013 by daze23

[defk0n_NL 2]

The problem is not the performance but the advantage of seeing outside the scope that well.

I liked what you did there, but what about refresh rate on\off the scope?

well the scope could be a little closer to the face i reckon or some added weapon sway.

it would also require alot of hardcoded settings that are normally optional :/

like temporary triple-buffering + vsync to keep the two buffers in sync and blur to make it look pretty

also i think this would require real time processing of blur. not post processing which is a effect after render comes back.

Edited June 3, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[dunedain 48]

Isn't the point of having PiP scopes to maintain maximum situational awareness while still looking through the scope? If it's not possible to have PiP without tightening the fov and bluring everything to the point it's illegible, I don't see it being any better than BIS current solution for the beta.

[PuFu 4600]

Most don't understand that blur is a filter over a render that decreases performance, not helping it.

So the moment you have the need for most performance (as in when you aim), you will either be crippled by PIP (just to be precise, PIP at this very moment runs at about 20FPS max, no matter of settings or hardware used), or by blur.

[pauliesss 2]

And how big is the performance decrease when using blur, perhaps devs could try and let us know ?

I would like to know that as well before making any conclusions.

[dunedain 48]

Most don't understand that blur is a filter over a render that decreases performance, not helping it.

I think most people are aware of that. However following defk0n_NL suggestion blur could be usefull to cover-up for the lower rendering resolution around the scope while still maintaining a better framerate than if you had an 100% rendering resolution on and off the scope. You'ld have your screen at let's say 67% rendering resolution while the scope with a rather limited fov could still benefit from a 100% rendering resolution. I dunno if it's feasible or not, and it kinda kills the interest of having PIP scopes for me if you can't discern mid and long-range movements in you field of view.

Edited June 3, 2013 by dunedain

[skulldragon 1]

As to the problem of people disabling PP to remove the blur around a zoomed in scope, surely BI can make this blur unaffected in such a way by the video settings?

[daze23 1]

a lot of these factors are why a lot of games just stick with the 'cardboard cutout' method

[DeclaredEvol 10]

Actually, I like the Beta Scopes quite a bit. I hope that the option is both, so people don't cause arguments over this. Just looking to see some flexibility, but as a whole... the 2d Optics slows the performance down some due to the constant post rendering it takes to go in and out from the scope. 3d Optics vital difference specifically in performance would be just the fact it doesn't have to refresh any rendering when you aim... secondly. But on a different perspective, it looks and feels like the way it really is. It's not a goggle, but more of a magnifying glass.

Edited June 4, 2013 by DeclaredEvol

[defk0n_NL 2]

Actually, I like the Beta Scopes quite a bit. I hope that the option is both, so people don't cause arguments over this. Just looking to see some flexibility, but as a whole... the 2d Optics slows the performance down some due to the constant post rendering it takes to go in and out from the scope. 3d Optics vital difference specifically in performance would be just the fact it doesn't have to refresh any rendering when you aim... secondly. But on a different perspective, it looks and feels like the way it really is. It's not a goggle, but more of a magnifying glass.

yep yep, also noticed the scopes at the beta video.

one day we will get there...

[scrim 1]

One of the main things I don't fancy about it is that in the films so far, the scopes appear to have been "dirtied", meaning it'll be far easier to observe things outside of the scope, since that will also be zoomed in. Also, I don't understand why the scopes should be that dirty. Which soldier in any Western military wouldn't get disciplined or out right beaten for letting something as valuable as his rifle scope get that dirty? And if it's on the inside where he can't clean it, the scope is simply broken.

[NeuroFunker 11]

about dirt on the scopes, it would be nice, if the scope will get dirty with the time you run arond, and you could wipe the dirt off, similar to metro last light game, when your gas mask is geting dirty, and you simply clean it with your hand by pressing G.

[EDcase 87]

Scope optics are way too dirty at the moment.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Scope optics are way too dirty at the moment.

i agree.

Maybe we should make a feedback tracker entry?

[fraczek 4]

when your gas mask is geting dirty, and you simply clean it with your hand by pressing G.

Yeah, like if we need another keybind on G : D ... "Let me just access my inventory when we are all stacked up safe in this compound" [bOOM]

[defk0n_NL 2]

i agree.

Maybe we should make a feedback tracker entry?

Thats just cruel, atleast wait till you actually played with it.

You backseat game developer

[down8 30]

Scope optics are way too dirty at the moment.

I aggree too.

[sorophx 25]

I'd do what DM guys did, make the scope model big enough to block half of the screen and blur the edges just a little

http://imageshack.us/a/img824/1267/arma2oa2013060703025551.png (3159 kB)

oh, watching some E3 footage, and looks like that's exactly what Bohemia did :eek:

Edited June 20, 2013 by sorophx

[Brain 12]

Did anyone had some success with the PiP Scope? There is a Ticket on the FBT, but yet nothing else. Is RO2 using the same technique to render it, or is it a way different technique?

[Steakslim 1]

PIP scope in any level of usefulness will be too performance heavy. If you notice all the current uses of PIP in game is fairly low resolution even at the highest setting to keep from killing your framerate.

[Anachoretes 10]

According to the comments there are so many people who can do or know how to do it.

[laverniusregalis 10]

I'm talking generally about how bad optic peripherals are done. Holo sight is one example.

In real life holographic sight feels like the crosshair is projected on the target and when you move your head crosshair stays in same position - it's still aimed on target! I was trying find something in internet for you to imagine - watch this.

, in Arma it's just a red crosshair inside a "box".

The second example is rifle scope. Compare this https://dev-heaven.net/attachments/4925/scrn2-optics.JPG to this http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/127126201-4.jpg

The fact is that such a scopes were even in Red Orchestra 1, a game from 2006 - ARMA 3 is going to be 2013 game, maybe even 2014.

Thank you captain obvious.

Last time I saw a infantry clip from ARMA3 nothing has changed to scopes, and I don't think something will until they announce so...

Interesting. Just a thought that popped into my head: When you're in first person view and look through the optics while using a holographic sight, maybe the crosshair on the sight could be moved forward slightly, giving it that effect you're talking about.