ARMA 3 - still unrealistic optics

[dmarkwick 261]

I agree completely. I hate when games use depth of field blur. The developers don't know what I am looking at at any given time. My eyes will naturally blur what is in my peripherals anyways. So it is a waste of resources imo.

Yes this is true, DoF should not occur for FPS view, only any view that has a simulated optical component like a camera or an optic. Anything outside an optic/lens simulation should not have DoF. I ain't a big fan of DoF effects in any case, but I dislaike it's use in FPS view especially :)

As for RTT performance issues, although there is two scenes being rendered, two things should be borne in mind:

The zoomed optic view render is a render of a small part of the screen not the full screen.

There will be different LoD requirements for each scene rendered. This might be one of the main sticky points for RTT scopes.

[Alwarren 2767]

It's still rendering thrice

I am quite sure the monitors in the SDV have lower FPS, they might only get updated every other frame or something of that nature. On a weapon scope, that would be deadly since it introduces a lag that you cannot afford.

[dsi24 12]

I'm curious as to why people so adamantly refuse the idea of 3D scopes, if you can't run them, don't, no need to punish those who can.

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm curious as to why people so adamantly refuse the idea of 3D scopes, if you can't run them, don't, no need to punish those who can.

I'm curious as to why you think people on a forum have this power :)

[Kamov 1]

I'm curious as to why people so adamantly refuse the idea of 3D scopes, if you can't run them, don't, no need to punish those who can.

Because they're dumb.

[Minoza 11]

I'm curious as to why people so adamantly refuse the idea of 3D scopes, if you can't run them, don't, no need to punish those who can.

Can you guarantee that people who can't run it wont be privileged in some way while playing, both COOP and PvP? Or vice versa? As for now, we have no idea what performance impact it'll have and what other problems it may bring. You might end up having 5fps with it even though you have i7 and GTX680 setup... All we do here, is discussing alternatives in case rtt proves to be too taxing for that purpose. Remember BIS themselves said that it is not in their interest to have a resource hog once again, they want the game to scale well on a wide range of setups.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Minoza

[-Coulum- 35]

I'm curious as to why people so adamantly refuse the idea of 3D scopes, if you can't run them, don't, no need to punish those who can.

I don't think anyone is really "refusing" the idea totally, but I think some (including myself) think that it may not be worth BIS time to implement 3d scopes and some sort of FPS friendly scope just so the people with great hardware can use it them. In addition, even for those who do/will have the hardware to run 3d scops, not all of them necessarily would like to have their extra resources spent on a feature as small (IMO) 3D scopes. Yes it has its gamplay advantages and adds to realism but it also makes magnified optics even more overpowered than they already are (which is quite alot) and it seems like it would cost quite a bit of performance for very little benifit (again IMO). So far, it seems BIS is thinking along these lines as well (but we haven't seen any footage for a while so who knows what we may see next...)

For me, and maybe some other, there are many other features that might have a bigger impact on gameplay that I'd rather eat up my extra resources - maybe increasing shadow and foliage draw distance, or having faster ai, or having more detailed microterrain/ higher object density etc.

Basically I don't think anybody is really opposed to having 3d scopes in the game, but rather its just not one of the first things on the list of features in their perfect arma 3.

edit

Can you guarantee that people who can't run it wont be privileged in some way while playing, both COOP and PvP?

^This too.^

Because they're dumb.

Haha, yep, this guy really nailed it, that's the reason. Forget what I said, I am just dumb...

[froggyluv 2136]

Can you guarantee that people who can't run it wont be privileged in some way while playing, both COOP and PvP? Or vice versa? .

Server setting? As far as performance I think of it in a similar vein as ragdoll -that being I'd prefer BI provide these as options rather than waiting for/using mods which IMHO divides servers more than inbuilt settings.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i haven't seen a single official image or video showing any kind of 3D scope, what i'd seen was magnified scopes with the typical black circle arround; i don't have any reason to think that such thing will be added on the ArmA3 even if i want to. Let's C ya

[Minoza 11]

Server setting? As far as performance I think of it in a similar vein as ragdoll -that being I'd prefer BI provide these as options rather than waiting for/using mods which IMHO divides servers more than inbuilt settings.

Ragdoll is CPU (as well as Physx), rtt is GPU. I'm sure BI would consider it if it was possible given that they are already using rtt. The fact is, we don't know anything related to that and we will not know until game release or dev confirmation. You can rest asured that there is a good reason for them to do or not to do something, in this case, probably a performance issues.

[Kamov 1]

Ragdoll is CPU (as well as Physx), rtt is GPU. I'm sure BI would consider it if it was possible given that they are already using rtt. The fact is, we don't know anything related to that and we will not know until game release or dev confirmation. You can rest asured that there is a good reason for them to do or not to do something, in this case, probably a performance issues.

I wouldn't suffer to much with my CrossfireX setup.

[Minoza 11]

I wouldn't suffer to much with my CrossfireX setup.

I'm pretty sure BI has SLI and crossfire setups to test on as well, that doesn't mean that rtt scope would work good on that setup, you can't know that, I can't know that. Yes, it would be cool, but we have to wait and see, in the meantime we can discuss good alternatives like we already did. No point in predicting how it would work, or wishing that it worked...

Oh, and I forgot, regarding that forced server setting... if I got it right froggyluv you would just force it off for server? What is the point of it then? Feature that will only work in SP? Or would you have some servers with rtt, and some servers without? How is that not dividing the community compared to mods? I don't like that idea to be honest...

Edited February 11, 2013 by Minoza

[froggyluv 2136]

Ragdoll is CPU (as well as Physx), rtt is GPU..

Not really sure what your saying here - quite a few people seem to think their CPU is overtaxed while their GPU still have plenty of room to slave. If anything it's to our advantage thats its offloaded to GPU, no?

Oh, and I forgot, regarding that forced server setting... if I got it right froggyluv you would just force it off for server? What is the point of it then? Feature that will only work in SP? Or would you have some servers with rtt, and some servers without? How is that not dividing the community compared to mods? I don't like that idea to be honest...

Well I was only stating that as an option to the previous argument that "what if it's unfair to the 3d scoped/non 3d scoped" etc.... Personally im not bothered by such things for instance some guys like to buy $500 worth of flight sim equipment to be Masters of the Air or how about making a similar argument for those that want to use TOH controls VS. Easy fliers? I find it hard to believe that a 3d scoped person would have the advantage over someone whos got the entire screen zoomed -yet I would prefer the former for immersion alone.

And again personally I wouldn't find inbuilt game options for filtering as divisive as the multitude of mods that already confuse and drive the newcomer to SP,and yes even some veterans :)

But we have yet to see how the MP interface will play out so until then it's all just us speculating.

[fragmachine 12]

From what I understand Physx will be both CPU and GPU in ArmA III

"Arma 3 â€@Arma3official

@Clavus PhysX does work on other cards. It's just not accelerated and thus you can't afford gorgeous effects, but the cars will be PhysXing."

As far as optics goes I don't think that 3D scopes are priority, I don't mind if we'll get flat ones like in ArmA II or OFP. Just let them source their efforts into AI polishing and such.

https://twitter.com/Arma3official

[Minoza 11]

Not really sure what your saying here - quite a few people seem to think their CPU is overtaxed while their GPU still have plenty of room to slave. If anything it's to our advantage thats its offloaded to GPU, no?

Yeah, but ragdoll is confirmed, and it is CPU bound, while RTT is not and we are all aware that it does bring performance issues, and who knows what else, question is, how much of hit it delivers and is it worth it? I can repeat over and over again, why do you think BI haven't tested it already? If they decide not to include it, it is probably for a good reason. We will know more as game release comes closer. As for Physx, yeah, you're correct fragmachine, I was referring to the core, NV users can probably expect more eye candy.

[metalcraze 290]

I wouldn't suffer to much with my CrossfireX setup.

A. You are overestimating your system.

B. There are other people playing the game too.

I bet when ArmA3 is out we will see people even with their crossfiresliz demanding majickal optimizations because the game doesn't run like CS 1.6 on their systems even without gimmicky 3D scopes.

[froggyluv 2136]

I bet when ArmA3 is out we will see people even with their crossfiresliz demanding majickal optimizations because the game doesn't run like CS 1.6 on their systems even without gimmicky 3D scopes.

Just don't get this mocking attitude towards the proposition of enhaced scopes over submersible cameras in a series founded on and known as primarily infantry based. Sure I'll have a few nice moments dicken around in a sub afew times a year but will be handling gun reticules daily. There have been alot of really good alternative to full 3d in this thread and I'd be happy with many of them, I just don't get the sub cam trumping the rifle scope in terms opf priority.

[Messiah 2]

The 5fps sub cam gimic you mean?

[Swiss 1]

Cool.

[Kamov 1]

A. You are overestimating your system.

B. There are other people playing the game too.

I bet when ArmA3 is out we will see people even with their crossfiresliz demanding majickal optimizations because the game doesn't run like CS 1.6 on their systems even without gimmicky 3D scopes.

You're pretty dumb if you believe what you just typed out.

Please cite where anybody has compared ArmA's performance to a completely different and extremely simple game such as Counter-Strike?

Edited February 11, 2013 by Kamov

[metalcraze 290]

The 5fps sub cam gimic you mean?

Running in a whopping 320x240 resolution

[slatts 1978]

Easy now, no need to get hostile over things most of us would like to see.

[maturin 12]

You're pretty dumb if you believe what you just typed out.

Please cite where anybody has compared ArmA's performance to a completely different and extremely simple game such as Counter-Strike?

More or less every day in the technical issues forum and dedicated performance thread, although admittedly moreso on the Steam forums and such.

[das attorney 858]

I read this thread and it veers from good, solid debate into monotony and repitition.

I only speak for myself of course but I believe optics in Arma 3 should be fit for purpose.

To me this means they must accurately represent what you would see through the scope.

To this end, I would say that rendering grass and terrain at distance when looking through the scope is of paramount importance in game terms. At the moment, it is a turkey shoot when using a scope and the majority of compelling gameplay I have experienced in Arma 2 is when I am using ironsights/kobra/aimpoint etc.

If they can put eyecandy on top, then Yeah! But if not, then nevermind, I'm enjoying the game.

And this comes from someone who (badly) mods scopes...

[lolipoyi 10]

I remember hearing in one of the GameStar.de videos that this time around we would have something like 2 different sliders for distance. One beeing the already known terrain view distance and the other beeing object draw distance. If we do get in fact this two sliders to play with, there is maybe a decent shot that we get to see some grass through optics.

BIS never actually said we would get 2 kind of sliders (from what I can remember), but it was certainly said they had x viewing distance and y object draw distance.

can you see the video where it is said, around the 9:45 min mark onwards. Edited February 15, 2013 by lolipoyi