Israel - Gaza - What should we do if anything.

[Mr. Charles 22]

I guess full blown ground invasion will start on sunday.

Sunday is shabbat :)

[void_false 1]

Sunday is shabbat :)

Saturday is Shabbat. Sunday is the first day of a working week in Israel.

[walker 0]

Hi all

No the killing wont stop overnight when Palestine becomes a state. It did not when Israel became a UN recognised state, "peace" came afterwards as wars were faught the borders defined and treatys were signed.

It is just that when statehood happens, what is being fought over is defined. Much as the state of Israel was defined to Egypt Jordan and Syria thus defined to them what was being faught over, what would be the conditions of peace and who had to be negotiated with, about what. Until that point Israel was just a bunch of terrorists.

At the point Palestine is recognised in the UN, Israel has to negotiate with it about their borders and define the treaty that states their relationship, oh they will claim for decades it does not exist as Egypt, Jordan and Syria did, but entualy, after some proper wars and thousands of dead on both sides, the treatys get signed.

Until then there can never be a negotiation, and all we have is stall tactics.

Oh by the way I think Gaza will be a seperate state from Palestine and will probably go the Singapore route of being a tax free port, it is the only viable economic solution for it.

Kind Regards walker

Edited November 17, 2012 by walker

[kireta21 13]

As you see Israel survived from UN treaty to full country because it won its independence war. Treaties by themself are toilet paper withiout firepower to back them up. If Palestine could win war with Israel to become independent state, there would be no need for such treaty anyway.

[[aps]gnat 28]

They are all as bad as each other ..... no one has gained any credibility or moral high ground in the last decades/1 year/1 week .... yet again.

Seems nothing short of several nukes or a region wide pandemic would change this regions dynamic ......

Like a few other locations, destined to remain a scab on our planet that gets picked at forever.

Religion is evil.

[Mr. Charles 22]

Saturday is Shabbat. Sunday is the first day of a working week in Israel.

I thought it was sunday :confused:

[Dwarden 1125]

hmm what's up with the media and some people presentation in this forum (e.g. the comic above) ... daily / weekly there are mortar, missile and rocket projectiles flying from Palestian controlled zones into Israel ... nobody cares, it's probably natural phenomenon and when Israel react, it's all pure evil ? sorry but it perfectly shows why there is no peace, as one side obviously refuse to accept it

[ProfTournesol 956]

Hi all

In all honnesty the only way for this conflict to end is for a Palestinian state to form via the UN ignoring the seccurity council.

Kind Regards walker

Well, even Israel isn't complying with UN demands to dismantle illegal colonies.

Edited November 17, 2012 by ProfTournesol

[kireta21 13]

I thought it was sunday :confused:

Christians celebrate on Sunday, since year 321, by order of Emperor Constantine the Great. He changed holy day, so Christians and Jews don't celebrate same day. Before that, Christians celebrated on Saturday as well.

[mrcash2009 0]

Biblical version is the day of rest is Saturday, the change was by Rome and is not in line with biblical teachings (the argument goes on and on but its isn't). UN is also under papal rule (under rome) so you can see how this is unfolding.

so Christians and Jews don't celebrate same day.

Actually that's Catholicism (Rome), not strictly "Christian".

Religion is evil.

Organised religion mainly has those routes :)

So, "What can we do if anything?" learn more about the entire game being played out in that region would probably be what can be done as apposed to joining in a large orchestrated punch up.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i haven't ever hear a palestinian saying that they regret any terrorist or attack on Israel or a single israelite dead, is pretty clear that booth sides don't want "to be friends..." the israelites with their illegal and irrational settlements and the palestinians getting aid from theological mushlim extremists filofaszist organizations and without erase and forget that line of their constitution saying "the Israel state must be destroyed".

Im with the soldiers (conscript soldiers for 3 years) that have to live in a war situation with it's current and future implications and with the civilians that are tired of don't have enough food and freedom. They should forget the religious bullshit and live together as diferent people but neightbours anyway. Let's C ya

[Opticalsnare 12]

Well its not hard to understand why the two cant coexist together. Its basicly religion central, but in terms of the 20th century. You take a country once called Palestine which was ruled by Arabs for something like 1000 years, along come the British Empire and decide that Jewish People should have a "Home" slowly immigrate them into that Country soon theres alot of them and they want power & rights, obv it doesnt work out both cultures disagree with one another. They both have a fight, someone wins, someone loses, the winner forces the remainder of the people out and squashes them all in a small peice of land called the Gaza Strip. These people have nobody else to turn to for support, no functioning government, no international support, the world basicly turned a blind eye to the events that has happened there and these people found themselfs cornered, alone and without a future.

And so a resistance is formed, fuelled by hatred & fear.

What can the world do?

Send in International Peacekeepers and setup a Buffer Zone or State and keep both cultures away from one another. But the only reason why that has not happened already, is because the world powers in the past caused this huge ****ing mess. And they rather forget that they were even involved.

Or perhaps the better option would be to stop supporting Israel..

Edited November 18, 2012 by Opticalsnare

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Well theres this line in this song, see by a band called TISM and, well it doesn't bear repeating but I see some have already aluded to it

or there the other option, do nothing, hide behind 'Its complicated'

Edited November 18, 2012 by Pathetic_Berserker

[hellfire257 3]

I can't watch the live streams without getting angry at how anyone can think this is justified.

[PTV-Jobo 820]

hmm what's up with the media and some people presentation in this forum (e.g. the comic above) ... daily / weekly there are mortar, missile and rocket projectiles flying from Palestian controlled zones into Israel ... nobody cares, it's probably natural phenomenon and when Israel react, it's all pure evil ? sorry but it perfectly shows why there is no peace, as one side obviously refuse to accept it

Nice to see someone with a clearer mindset other than the typical "screw teh juice!" mentality. When Israel get's hit, everyone goes silent and continues on with their day like it's no big deal. But when it's the other way around, the world gets awfully vocal and bat-sh*t crazy.

[taro8 806]

Let's face it if Israel would get really serious there is NOTHING Palestinians could do. After all Israel at least has an army (pretty good one in fact), while Palestinian only have some religious nut jobs that blow themselves up for giggles.

Who is going to oppose Israel in face of open conflict? Definitely not Iraq, neither Syria. Saudi Arabia or Egypt probably wouldnt risk intervention due to potential internal conflicts. Palestinians should just stop poking the bear or one day they will bite it and there wont be anyone to save them.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Taro8

[icebreakr 3159]

“The lesson of the Holocaust is not that Jews are special. It is not that Jews are unique. It is not that Jews are eternal victims. The lesson of the Holocaust is that when you have the capacity to halt genocide and you do not, no matter who carries out that genocide or who it is directed against, you are culpable.†~ Chris Hedges

[Macadam Cow 1]

hmm what's up with the media and some people presentation in this forum (e.g. the comic above) ... daily / weekly there are mortar, missile and rocket projectiles flying from Palestian controlled zones into Israel ... nobody cares, it's probably natural phenomenon and when Israel react, it's all pure evil ? sorry but it perfectly shows why there is no peace, as one side obviously refuse to accept it

I think what this comic is showing is the disproportional reaction of israel towards those palestinian attacks.

During the Gaza War (3 weeks conflict during the 2008 winter) NGOs estimated that 13 israelis died and more 1.400 palestinians died. that's 1/100 ratio...

There were also aproximatively 500 wounded on the israeli side and 5000 wounded on the palestinians side.

So, do you understand that comic strip better now ?

In my opinion the Israelis are the main responsible of this situation. They drown the palestinian economy with their blocus, monopolised the water ressources aswell as the agricultural land.

Everybody knows that poverty leads to extremism. As long as the israelis will prevent the palestinian economy from developping they will be responsible of more more young palestinians joining the Hamas.

I know everything isn't black or white but just like many other I think the Israelis should know better.

We often hear that Israel is the only stable country in that area and the only ally we have there but as time goes by I think Israel is becoming the main reason for the western hate in muslims countries and in the end they're doing us more harm than good.

Yes, I think we should drop any help/support we provide to Israel. That doesn't mean we should support Iran or the Hamas either, but we should require higher standard from a so-called western country.

Just imagine one second if the roles were inverted, if it was the Israelis who were dying by thousand, I pretty sure NATO would already have bombed the shit out of the palestinians.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Macadam Cow

[hellfire257 3]

You've got to consider why the Palestinians take up arms. Sure, there's multiple reasons, but the big glaring one is simply that Israel exists at all. It was a mistake of the previous generations, and now our generation is paying for it in blood and tears.

There's a lot I would like to say, but unfortunately, anti-zionism often gets branded as anti-semitism.

[icebreakr 3159]

Well, some bad things happening now are actually good for mass population. How come?

I woke up and many others will too. As a kid I've been fascinated by a military machine of Israelis, been making models of Kfirs, F16 blocks, studied Merkavas etc. and always thought how poor (no pun intended) Jews are they getting pounded by "dirty terrorists" shown in us/euro media, we've all been watching and believing. Then I picked up several books (I got while serving military in my country), studied and found out I've been living in a huge mistake. Several Israelis visiting my country were making military business deals, I took an invite opportunity and talked with them in Chambers of Commerce Office. It totally changed my view... by talking & by reading historical books instead of watching mass western media. And seeing WP rounds (white phosporus) fired by Israeli Army it became clear that is not how you fight couple of terrorists but eradicate population instead... unarmed women and children.

And seeing how Egypt practically sold out in the past few decades... to "you-know-who"... not to mention several other countries. Money makes the world go 'round and it doesnt stop for justice.

Big changes are coming and Israelis are imho doing a very bad PR lately, ...

[spooky lynx 73]

Frankly speaking Gaza mess and the whole Palestinian problem is... suitable for Israel. Just like Caucasus problem for our authorities.

1) No matter of the amount of fired kassams the death toll is rather low.

2) There's constant external enemy who you can always blame for everything.

3) There's a good reason to have large and well-trained army, police and special services - good for regime stability no matter of what it does.

4) There's a good reason to gain external support - "Look, we are constantly attacked by that terrorists! Please respect whatever we do and support poor victims of bloody terrorists!".

5) There's a good reason to receive foreign military aid - from rifles to jet fighters for cheap price.

6) Army and special forces have 'live fire' excercises during clashes while being not vulnerable to enemy fire (they simply don't have any modern weapons to fight with that army).

7) A country that is constantly treated by terrorists is granted not to expose its WMD to international monitoring, so nobody knows what is with Israeli nuclear weapons and whom can it sell this stuff. Saying Israel won't do it is not an option. We are not saints, Israelis are not exception. Everything may happen in this crazy world.

And I can name some more reasons but, I suppose you all know them. Weak external enemy is a wet dream of nearly every regime - no matter of its political system.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Yeh, the western media tends to lean one way (but not always).

Half the reason is major media companies, sponsors and heavy hitters in the US and European arena have their balls firmly in the hands of a very long heritage of (low profile) pro-Israel activity and big business.

And their trick is, if you corner them or speak out, they hit back with the "Antisemitism" line.

That aside, as with almost all conflicts, theres at least 2 sides. In this conflict it very clear who the Oppressor is and who is Oppressed.

And of course, theres no oil or gas supplies at jeopardy, so none of the big boys are stepping in.

[walker 0]

Hi all

As I keep saying we will not see any movement towards peace in the Middle East, until Palestine is declared and recognised by a majority of members of the UN as a state. Everything else is just hot air.

Kind Regards walker

[oxmox 73]

So, countries like Katar and Saudi Arabia are sponsoring Syrian Sunni Rebels and aswell Sunni Hamas in Gaza. In Syria they get political support and sponsoring, in Gaza they are in fights with Israel and are described as a terror organisation. Whats the point here ?

[ProfTournesol 956]

So, countries like Katar and Saudi Arabia are sponsoring Syrian Sunni Rebels and aswell Sunni Hamas in Gaza. In Syria they get political support and sponsoring, in Gaza they are in fights with Israel and are described as a terror organisation. Whats the point here ?

Well, it's hard to compare both situations so quickly. The Hamas is supported by Iran who is supporting Assad.