Rather unethical warfare

[Double Doppler 10]

I think those incidents, while really quite dirty tricks, were exagerrated somewhat. I don't know, maybe the Wikipedia article had been edited by Iran-friendly vandals when I was reading it.

TBH I find using nerve gas and chemical agents very dirty. Especially against civilians. From what I read the children had a choice of fighting or not, but there was such mass propaganda on both sides at the time that quite a bit of them fought alongside their elder counterparts. The civilians who got gassed had no choice at all.

In any war you are never going to get a 100% good side, there is always something dirty that goes on. Its just which side is good at hiding it which decides where the finger points at. In this case, one country would fill their peoples minds with crap while the other did the same (thus the defending side gets mindwashed child soldiers). It was a border war, and I guess things get desperate when your enemy is your neighbor and war is on your doorstep.

In all, war is always dirty and unfair, the real "ethical" warfare by the book probably never really happens. Thats what makes it war.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Please include biological weapons in the game to justify DayZ 2 in arma 3 :D

[Kamov 1]

Please include biological weapons in the game to justify DayZ 2 in arma 3 :D

No. Bio weapons do not belong in ArmA. At most, small yield tactical nukes.

[dragon01 902]

Bioweapons are a good backstory element, but I don't think they'd have a gameplay use. They're horrible, but usually slow acting, and in normal game time, I don't think the effects would be seen. They'd only mess with the campaign. Chemical weapons would be better, since they have more immediate effects, though they're mostly a threat to civilians nowadays (with gas masks being standard issue for the military).

[Hillsbills 1]

We've already had Bioweapons in ARMA. (Evolution) No biggie.

[onlyrazor 11]

Still, it would be nice if it were implemented as an official feature.

[rye1 21]

Bioweapons are a good backstory element, but I don't think they'd have a gameplay use. They're horrible, but usually slow acting, and in normal game time, I don't think the effects would be seen. They'd only mess with the campaign. Chemical weapons would be better, since they have more immediate effects, though they're mostly a threat to civilians nowadays (with gas masks being standard issue for the military).

When you're talking micron measurement, you're talking weaponry that can defeat gas masks.

[Tonci87 163]

When you're talking micron measurement, you're talking weaponry that can defeat gas masks.

Well then the military will have gas masks with rebreathers. Everything dangerous like that, will be countered.

[Desert1 1]

"Ethical" in the context of warfare means that it should not cause "inhuman" wounds and suffering, should not be indiscriminate by design (this is important) and not be used to cause mass civilian casualties in an instant or very short timeframe.

However, warfare is not as clean as games make it out to be... I am repeating myself, but it bears repeating. People don´t just fall over like in Arma. There is lots of blood, screaming, bodily waste and shards of human beings involved. Incredible amounts of fear. If you watched the videos from Syria and Lybia (especially the Urban ones) you know what I am talking about.

Arma is not designed to do this realistically. If it were, it would be the only Saving Private Ryan style Anti-War Shooter ever. War should not be glorified, like it is in COD, or even approached in a neutral fashion like with prior Armas.

It should be a painful experience that should leave you sweating in your seat, with every emotion but joy or satisfaction.

I agree, I watched a personal documentary the other day about the Russians in Georgia (1996), and they were extracting one of their friends from a destroyed T90 tank, and when they finally got to him, he was completely burnt through, his face was etched in a scream and his fingers were burnt into place. I realised then that war is not fun, pretty or good in anyway, but instead it is only done because it has to. Oh and they had to lift him out with wires because he was still slightly on fire and also because if they had pulled him to hard he would have fallen to pieces. If they did that in ARMA.. who knows what the reaction would be.

[Kamov 1]

I agree, I watched a personal documentary the other day about the Russians in Georgia (1996), and they were extracting one of their friends from a destroyed T90 tank, and when they finally got to him, he was completely burnt through, his face was etched in a scream and his fingers were burnt into place. I realised then that war is not fun, pretty or good in anyway, but instead it is only done because it has to. Oh and they had to lift him out with wires because he was still slightly on fire and also because if they had pulled him to hard he would have fallen to pieces. If they did that in ARMA.. who knows what the reaction would be.

It means we need L4D2 gore.

[max power 21]

Let's keep it on topic, please.

[Kamov 1]

Ironically that was not very on topic. ^

Gore would be nice in ArmA, but I have a feeling the devs don't want to use resources on making people actually die.

[max power 21]

+1 warning for ignoring a moderator's instructions.

§2) Follow the instructions of the moderators

When a moderator or BIS staff member asks you to do something or to stop doing something, please follow their instructions. If you have questions/complaints/comments about the forum or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo), he will be happy to look into the matter.

[DurbanPoison_VoD 2]

+1 warning for ignoring a moderator's instructions.

who moderates the rouge moderator? I didn't see that part listed in the rules- could you clarify for us or would that be considered challenging your authority?

I've received 2 infractions already that seemed a little hasty and heavy handed, so that's why I asked question...

[scrim 1]

I'm terribly sorry, but just exactly what is this thread about? Judging from the initial post, I'm a bit surprised it wasn't closed and the author refered to the community wish thread or whatever it's called. It's practically been derailed from post #2.

[PuFu 4600]

who moderates the rouge moderator? I didn't see that part listed in the rules- could you clarify for us or would that be considered challenging your authority?

I've received 2 infractions already that seemed a little hasty and heavy handed, so that's why I asked question...

and you will keep receving:

post here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?72059-The-all-new-Ask-a-moderator-about-the-forum-amp-rules

§18) No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments about the forum or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo), he will be happy to look into the matter. You may also ask your questions in the "Ask a mod" thread; however that thread is not to be used to attack/rant against specific moderators or about specific rules but more for questions/answers.

§2) Follow the instructions of the moderators

When a moderator or BIS staff member asks you to do something or to stop doing something, please follow their instructions. If you have questions/complaints/comments about the forum or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo), he will be happy to look into the matter.

[Ghost1917 1]

I agree with the first poster, it's bad practice to use real countries to illustrate ongoing or hypothetical future conflicts.

Iran hasn't invaded any country for as long as I can remember, yet, in the game, they are involved in Greece of all places while brave US with loyal puppet-state governments face the threat. This is just unintentional (I hope) propaganda, and it does no good for the kids, as it shows a twisted reality where your everyday permanent warrior and crusader is presented as a defender, where abuse and torture are equal to human rights, where democracy is oligarchy, and where peace prizes are war prizes.

[scrim 1]

Excuse me, but the first post in this thread says nothing of the sort. Quite the opposite, it mentions how Iran is a quite nasty country, and with NATO being desperate the question of wether or not either side would refrain from using WMDs given those circumstances.

[nodunit 397]

I agree with the first poster, it's bad practice to use real countries to illustrate ongoing or hypothetical future conflicts.

Iran hasn't invaded any country for as long as I can remember, yet, in the game, they are involved in Greece of all places while brave US with loyal puppet-state governments face the threat. This is just unintentional (I hope) propaganda, and it does no good for the kids, as it shows a twisted reality where your everyday permanent warrior and crusader is presented as a defender, where abuse and torture are equal to human rights, where democracy is oligarchy, and where peace prizes are war prizes.

I think you're going too far, nobody said anything about abuse, torture or any of that stuff.

You seriously need to set a divide between fiction and non fiction, and understand that games are not reality nor are they meant to represent reality to the fullest.

You agree with the first post yet you clearly did not take the time to understand it, it mentions using weapons that go against Geneva and other "Rules of War", weapons considered inhumane being used as a last resort.

Edited December 26, 2012 by NodUnit

[Ghost1917 1]

I'm not ok with any invasion of any country. My point is that the US does this, either with paid off local henchmen, or regular troops (who fight to fuel the very same system that causes them to be unemployed or intentionally uneducated), or a combination of both, and has done so for decades. The american imperialism is real and a serious threat to humanity, democracy and freedom. My problem with the supposed story is that it uncritically supports and gives legitimacy to real world atrocities and human rights abuse. Just like the Queens Gambit campaign where you as a dollar loving mercenary fought for some shiny royal family against evil and overzealous freedom hating workers and peasants. Children will think it's normal to fight as good christian knights against those ragged godless commies. In some 19th century strategy sim kids fight to "civilize" the world, in ArmA they fight for "democracy" instead. However, the goals are the same then and now, and neither civilization nor democracy was ever the result.

[scrim 1]

Whatever. It sure has nothing to do with any post that's been made in this thread, and beside from tin foil hat, it's OT.

[Ghost1917 1]

The point is that depiction of real countries or alliances should be avoided when it comes to present or "future" conflicts. It isn't good taste.

Tin foil? You seem to believe in anything you're told, but only as long as it comes from your TV loudspeaker.

[scrim 1]

My my, what charming manners you have. The point here is that your posts have nothing to do with the thread, would you be so kind as to take that hint?

[nodunit 397]

The point is that depiction of real countries or alliances should be avoided when it comes to present or "future" conflicts. It isn't good taste.

Tin foil? You seem to believe in anything you're told, but only as long as it comes from your TV loudspeaker.

If you'd like to discuss US politics then please take it to that thread, otherwise please stop spamming this thread with that. Yes I understand it's a problem many people have, but you need to understand that games are not real, children aren't brainwashed by games, their parents either failed to provoke their minds, instilling a difference or they had problems to begin with.

However if you must insist that games corrupt youth then I strongly suggest you take that mentality to a COD or Battlefield (games that glorify war far more than the OFP/Arma series do) forum, because significantly more people of younger ages play that. And if you think they do so to "civlize" wherever they go, you couldn't be more wrong.

Edited December 26, 2012 by NodUnit

[das attorney 858]

I'm okay with playing games where real countries fight each other.

It's only a game and doesn't have any bearing or connotations on the real world for me. If I found using real locations/countries as adversaries offensive, then I wouldn't have enjoyed a good deal of the movies that I've seen in my life. As long as the story is presented in a politically neutral/unbiased fashion, I'd much prefer real locale to some billy-bullshit-made-up country. I can be solder A from country A or soldier A from country B, it's all much of a muchness. As long as there's no real malice in the story-telling then I don't mind.

However, I do understand that some people are sensitive about real countries/regions being used in games (for various reasons) so fair enough to people who disagree.

Edited for clarity.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Das Attorney