More realistic/depressing feeling

[Madeon 6]

What's your point?

The point is in the real world you wouldn't be able to calmly and cooly aim at the enemy, your heart rate would be going through the roof and you would be trembling.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I don't even know what you're trying to convey now, I think it's established that you're not exactly rational about this topic.

The perception that people in the military don't expect a sniper to blow off the top of the skull of a fellow man-in-arms while patrolling down a capital of a foreign country, and then losing all bearings as a result of a shocking, shocking traumatic experience.

Completely unexpected I tell you.

[dmarkwick 261]

I think I'm just going to pour myself a drink :)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Then there's clearly a lot of people with health problems in this world.

Yeah, apparently 82% of the soldiers according to the report (excerpts from "Deadly Force Encounters") - not sure how stress and hormone spikes translates to "health problems" though :(

And what did you think would happen when a human being gets torn into two? Rainbow fountain? Patriotic duty of killing fellow human beings is so patriotic, until shit actually hits the fan and the idiot is weeping face down praying to whatever deity he has in his head, while the other side is doing the same thing, minus the weeping. Fucking yenius.

Seriously? :( I think the point here is putting in the things that can be put in, and in a way that resembles what really goes on, and in other cases take it somewhat into the artificial but still present slight obstacles to the player. You know, it's all about simplification - show in simple and effective means what you cannot truly simulate.

I think you people may want to look into RPGs.

I'm already kind of playing this as it was an RPG. We already have some mechanics in place, doesn't hurt with more. Maybe you want to get rid of heavy breathing in game because you prefer to do it in real life? Does the breathing prevent you from pretending? I'm hoping no.

[[frl]myke 14]

Temporarely closed, need to sort out who get how many infractions. Meanwhile, i suggest som of you study these: http://forums.bistudio.com/misc.php?do=vsarules

Topic will be back online in a few, meanwhile re-read topic title to make sure your posts are ontopic.

:EDITH:

Sorted a few things, deleted a few vids, pics and links. Due to the pretty emorional topic, at this point no infraction were given. But be warned, cool down, discuss in proper manner and respect other opinions. refrain from posting any links, pics or vids that might be problematic. War is hell, no need to point that fact out in every second post.

So remember, topic is if and how emotional feedback should/can be built in.

And if someone posts a inapropriate vid, do not raise, just report. Thats why we do have a "Report post" function in this very forum.

Thread reopened.

Edited August 23, 2012 by [FRL]Myke

[Bee8190 10]

#1 Incoming short burst of suppressive fire: results in slight shake in aim due to faster hart beat and adrenalin kick, sounds appear sharp and so does vision.

#2 Being suppressed for more than (**40seconds?**) Poor aiming at this point, very fast hart beat, slightly deafened sounds, tunnel and slightly blurr like vision. (also applies for hand granade or can of M203 as well MG's )

#3 Incoming shells, like mortar rounds at medium to close range: very deafening sounds, cripples communication between squad plus the above (#2)

Basically, from all the videos posted here, this is how I would summarize it and how I imagine being suppressed. This to me seems reasonable effects when mix of fear, adrenaline, fatigue-tiredness kicks in.

Don't hate on me I'm not a soldier nor have been ever mortared :P

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

#1 Incoming short burst of suppressive fire: results in slight shake in aim due to faster hart beat and adrenalin kick, sounds appear sharp and so does vision.

#2 Being suppressed for more than (**40seconds?**) Poor aiming at this point, very fast hart beat, slightly deafened sounds, tunnel and slightly blurr like vision. (also applies for hand granade or can of M203 as well MG's )

Um, can anyone guarantee that it will be implemented in a realistic manner without crippling competitive gameplay? Well, aim shake already happens and the heavy breathing is pretty authentic too.

#3 Incoming shells, like mortar rounds at medium to close range: very deafening sounds, cripples communication between squad plus the above (#2)

Plus above? Wouldn't you think concussion, deafening sounds and other features of shellshock is enough? :)

hdZpiAqdDSM

ACE 2 has most of that - just saying.

wU-om1eEHeA

Excellent example of tank cannon fire effects on infantry at 0:40.

"There you go again, Pliskin, wanna patch ACE into ArmA."

hPExkMXGqXs

Close proximity to heavy caliber MGs at 0:40. Don't tell me the same should be experienced by the people 600 m. away on the other end of the line of sight, in addition to being in danger of simply dieing.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[G4meM0ment 1]

Um, can anyone guarantee that it will be implemented in a realistic manner without crippling competitive gameplay? Well, aim shake already happens and the heavy breathing is pretty authentic too.

Plus above? Wouldn't you think concussion, deafening sounds and other features of shellshock is enough? :)

[_youtube]hdZpiAqdDSM

ACE 2 has most of that - just saying.

[_youtube]wU-om1eEHeA

Excellent example of tank cannon fire effects on infantry at 0:40.

"There you go again, Pliskin, wanna patch ACE into ArmA."

[_youtube]hPExkMXGqXs

Close proximity to heavy caliber MGs at 0:40. Don't tell me the same should be experienced by the people 600 m. away on the other end of the line of sight, in addition to being in danger of simply dieing.

I like all of these effects except of the last one, I think it should be "smoother" and not on every single shot.

And a question can you explain me "shellshock" with another word? Because my translator wont give me a good translation which makes sense.

Edited August 23, 2012 by [FRL]Myke

[froggyluv 2136]

Um, can anyone guarantee that it will be implemented in a realistic manner without crippling competitive gameplay?

LOL -why are you getting so worked up over what is basically a Wishlist item? As far as I know, BI hasn't mentioned anything about all of these suppression effects. So take a deep breathe, lower your cortisol, open the windows to reduce your blur and chill. :)

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I like all of these effects except of the last one, I think it should be "smoother" and not on every single shot.

And a question can you explain me "shellshock" with another word? Because my translator wont give me a good translation which makes sense.

Well, it has to do with the observer being present in front, or parallel to the muzzle. Muzzle breakers suppressors on smaller calibers usually provide a uniform shockwave dispersal at the end of the barrel, while higher cals are somewhat directed.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegszitterer

---------- Post added at 20:29 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ----------

LOL -why are you getting so worked up over what is basically a Wishlist item? As far as I know, BI hasn't mentioned anything about all of these suppression effects. So take a deep breathe, lower your cortisol, open the windows to reduce your blur and chill. :)

"First they came for the communists, and I wasn't a communist... etc" :)

Edited August 23, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[-Coulum- 35]

Um, can anyone guarantee that it will be implemented in a realistic manner without crippling competitive gameplay?

I am wondering how exactly it would ruin completive gameplay. Both sides would have equal opputunity to do it to one another so isn't it fair. I would just see it as another gameplay feature that can be used for victory.

[Gerwazy 10]

The best suppresion effects in games are bullet cracks and aim shaking, both in arma 2. screen blur and stuff is not realistic and kills the feeling.

[celery 8]

I am wondering how exactly it would ruin completive gameplay. Both sides would have equal opputunity to do it to one another so isn't it fair. I would just see it as another gameplay feature that can be used for victory.

Many things that affect both sides can be seen as detrimental to competitive play. Like 3rd person view, enemy tags, extended map markers or thermal optics.

[rye1 21]

I think I'm just going to pour myself a drink :)

Hear, hear! I hope it's a strong one after this conversation.

then have a good hard think about what you just wrote.

I clearly stated I don't like the term suppressive fire because of what it is associated with to those who don't research or truly understand it. They may associate it with putting 10,000 rounds over one guys head without anything advantageous really happening. I also hate people who state CQB when they think you run in like a headless chicken, as I've seen in a few "tactical clan" videos. So you're clearly misunderstanding. I'm not even going to bother to reply what you put in this thread.

I recall adrenalin sharpening my vision during extreme danger situations in real life - tunnel vision is subjective, your periphery is still utilised perfectly fine.

You get sharper central vision as far as I know. I would find references but I cannot be fooked good sir.

[maturin 12]

The exact psychological affects of combat are irrelevant, although there is enough supporting documentation to justify suppression effects on player and AI.

But what actually matters is the effect on gameplay. The effects of suppression should be geared towards preventing arcade responses to contact and lengthening firefights, without proving too excessive or annoying to players.

[-Coulum- 35]

But what actually matters is the effect on gameplay. The effects of suppression should be geared towards preventing arcade responses to contact and lengthening firefights, without proving too excessive or annoying to players.

Exactly. Whether weapon shake or whatever is a real effect of being under fire is irrelevent to me. What matters is whether it forces the player to act in a more realistic manner. I am fairly certain, that even some of the most hardened soldiers will expose themselves a little as possible while under fire. Not because they are shaking, or their vision is blurry or because they are getting tunnel vision, or even because they are neccesarilly "scared", but rather because they know that all it takes is one stray bullet and they could be dead. It is easy for most of us to just talk about reactions under fire and what should be done, but your life is something that very few will simply gamble with. Problem is in arma our life isn't on the line. Thus there need to be other incentives to make us keep are heads down and play realistically. Thus the idea of "suppression effects" taking the form of weapon shake, tunnel vision etc.

Many things that affect both sides can be seen as detrimental to competitive play. Like 3rd person view, enemy tags, extended map markers or thermal optics.

But to me, all of those things are detrimental because they disuade teamplay, communication, and tactics (at least realistic tactics). "suppression effects" (or whatever you want to call it) would only improve the need for teamwork and proper tactics + preparation. It would mean if you make a mistake and get pinned down, quick, and precise mouse / keyboard coordination will no longer be able to save you. Rather, you will have to rely on your teamates to either kill or suppress the guy firing at you so you can get back in the fight. The only thing I see being ruined by this kind of mechanic is competetive mouse play.

But then again I only play casual pvp, so maybe I am ignorant.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Well one solution for mp could be to select/filter option: "no effects" - "customized - see details" - "all effects". Its imo better if all players can select + adjust such effects to their own preferences ingame so they can test, see and "feel" them before joining a server and beeing forced to like something they don't want or can't really enjoy.

[max power 21]

Just to add to what Myke has said, further posts containing explicit videos or other media will attract 90 day bans. This is the default infraction for explicit content posting behaviour. I am quite sure you can make your point using words, not disgusting videos of dead children. I am sure we are all aware of the high cost of war, as are the devs. I think we can all be assured that they are mindful of this when they are creating their war games.

Thank you.

[dmarkwick 261]

Exactly. Whether weapon shake or whatever is a real effect of being under fire is irrelevent to me. What matters is whether it forces the player to act in a more realistic manner. I am fairly certain, that even some of the most hardened soldiers will expose themselves a little as possible while under fire. Not because they are shaking, or their vision is blurry or because they are getting tunnel vision, or even because they are neccesarilly "scared", but rather because they know that all it takes is one stray bullet and they could be dead. It is easy for most of us to just talk about reactions under fire and what should be done, but your life is something that very few will simply gamble with. Problem is in arma our life isn't on the line. Thus there need to be other incentives to make us keep are heads down and play realistically. Thus the idea of "suppression effects" taking the form of weapon shake, tunnel vision etc.

This is exactly it. Whether the effects themselves are subjectively "realistic" isn't really the issue, it's the effect it has on players. I was playing last night and took particular note of how a suppression addon affected my gameplay and it worked like this: while under fire around my area, I had to hide obviously. I was able to take the odd peek over & around cover, and I was able to make quick snapshots of return fire, but I was NOT able to make accurate game-style accurate snapshots. If I really wanted to, I could force myself to take a careful aim, and hold my breath etc, but the slight aimshake made it not worth the risk.

This "not worth the risk" element is the gameplay mechanic that emulates the real-life self-preservation I would expect in a firefight. Suppression did not stop me from returning fire, it just made me think more about my effectiveness and the consequent risk more.

But you know, sometimes I play with it off :) I like playing the casual hero as much as anyone else ;)

[G4meM0ment 1]

Well one solution for mp could be to select/filter option: "no effects" - "customized - see details" - "all effects". Its imo better if all players can select + adjust such effects to their own preferences ingame so they can test, see and "feel" them before joining a server and beeing forced to like something they don't want or can't really enjoy.

But the options should be only affecr if tue sfx is stronger or less strong, it would be unfair if the one is shaking its.weapon a while, and the other one is just happy to have an accurate weapon to kill tje suppressed.

[NoRailgunner 0]

G4meM0ment in general its tenfold better if players can select and adjust their settings to what they like + feel good with and then they simply search/filter for mp servers with similar setup to enjoy their time with A3. Competitive matches are a bit different and need some (more) rules, good + strict admin(s) and perhaps a mission framework that all can agree with.

[batto 17]

The effects of suppression should be geared towards preventing arcade responses to contact and lengthening firefights, without proving too excessive or annoying to players.

This is exactly it. Whether the effects themselves are subjectively "realistic" isn't really the issue, it's the effect it has on players.

This is so wrong. Exact opposite is true. The effect should be as realistic as possible and it's up to player how to cope with situation. Newbies will learn by mistakes.

How about a big blinking sign in the middle of the screen "INCOMING SUPPRESSIVE FIRE. FIND COVER !!!"? I'm sure you would enjoy CoD sir.

[G4meM0ment 1]

This is so wrong. Exact opposite is true. The effect should be as realistic as possible and it's up to player how to cope with situation. Newbies will learn by mistakes.

How about a big blinking sign in the middle of the screen "INCOMING SUPPRESSIVE FIRE. FIND COVER !!!"? I'm sure you would enjoy CoD sir.

Your post is a bit... ironic to say it in a nice way. The devs CANT simulate adrenlin or this suppressive feelin. So its need to be as realistic as possible and also as DMarkwick saud.

[Madeon 6]

I found some very informative documentation on epinephrine (adrenaline).

•Increased rate and force of contraction of the heart muscle.

•Constriction of blood vessels: norepinephrine, resulting in increased resistance and hence arterial blood pressure.

•Increased metabolic rate: oxygen consumption and heat production increase throughout the body in response to epinephrine.

•Dilation of the pupils: particularly important in situations where you are surrounded by velociraptors under conditions of low ambient light.

•Inhibition of certain "non-essential" processes: an example is inhibition of gastrointestinal secretion and motor activity.

http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/adrenal/medhormones.html

[celery 8]

Your post is a bit... ironic to say it in a nice way. The devs CANT simulate adrenlin or this suppressive feelin. So its need to be as realistic as possible and also as DMarkwick saud.

I've played enough pvp to notice that some players completely panic when they face a sudden "do not want" situation. They'd fire with no accuracy whatsoever or take cover and stay there. From my point of view, stress responses are already in the game courtesy of the players themselves. It's no secret what happens when you take a bullet, and it's up to the player how he reacts.