More realistic/depressing feeling

[liquidpinky 11]

What about adding combat fatigue in there as well, eventually your avatar will no longer give a shit about incoming fire and will in fact take increasingly stupid risks.

Or is that taking the realism thing to far?

[dmarkwick 261]

What about adding combat fatigue in there as well, eventually your avatar will no longer give a shit about incoming fire and will in fact take increasingly stupid risks.

Or is that taking the realism thing to far?

You can't affect action, only effectiveness :)

[liquidpinky 11]

You can't affect action, only effectiveness :)

Yes but it would eventually cancel out whatever suppression effect is put in place.

I had a thought to introduce real fear, or at least an incentive to survive.

DayZ introduced the persistence server into A2, what if your own avatar gained actual skill over time or training and upon death it was reset back to zero.

Would give you a reason not to die, making real life suppression techniques without visual gimmicks work.

Nothing game breaking, just the ability to carry a little more with less fatigue. Maybe slightly faster turn speeds etc. Things you can proudly work on and have an incentive to keep you avatar alive.

Not talking stupid unlock-able camos or crap like that, proper usable skills like you would get if you were a real soldier undergoing real training.

Would make me think twice before Ramboing out from behind cover.

[G4meM0ment 1]

Heavy machine gun fire happens often, you'd cripple the entire enemy squad by this "trip", in addition to killing them with 850 rpm wall of bullets. I see this "psychedelic trip" mechanic as something like: I win if I miss you, I win if I hit you.

That's another issue altogether, wounds could be properly simulated, along with loss of consciousness, deafness etc.

But in ArmA II there is also a kind of suppression effect, you breath faster and can't aim anymore, I don't understand what would be so bad if your screen just truns a bit more gray, to simlulate adrenalin.

[dmarkwick 261]

Yes but it would eventually cancel out whatever suppression effect is put in place.

I had a thought to introduce real fear, or at least an incentive to survive.

DayZ introduced the persistence server into A2, what if your own avatar gained actual skill over time or training and upon death it was reset back to zero.

Would give you a reason not to die, making real life suppression techniques without visual gimmicks work.

Nothing game breaking, just the ability to carry a little more with less fatigue. Maybe slightly faster turn speeds etc. Things you can proudly work on and have an incentive to keep you avatar alive.

Not talking stupid unlock-able camos or crap like that, proper usable skills like you would get if you were a real soldier undergoing real training.

Would make me think twice before Ramboing out from behind cover.

That's not a bad idea. I might suggest that you can do this on a per-profile basis, so you can still have your normal gameplay too. But yes, another good implementation of the persistent server.

[chortles 263]

I had a thought to introduce real fear, or at least an incentive to survive.

DayZ introduced the persistence server into A2, what if your own avatar gained actual skill over time or training and upon death it was reset back to zero.

Would give you a reason not to die, making real life suppression techniques without visual gimmicks work.

Unworkable since there's no unified MP scene with which to make it stick, unlike DayZ... closed system versus open system, that's one of the reasons for the DayZ standalone. ;)

[dmarkwick 261]

Unworkable since there's no unified MP scene with which to make it stick, unlike DayZ... closed system versus open system, that's one of the reasons for the DayZ standalone. ;)

Well a unified MP scene needs something to "stick" to, so maybe we just need something :)

[liquidpinky 11]

Pretty much every MP game keeps worthless stats that some people like to whore, why not ones that actually count for something instead?

Like fitness levels etc that can be used by the game for more benefit other than to just look at and gloat.

[dmarkwick 261]

Pretty much every MP game keeps worthless stats that some people like to whore, why not ones that actually count for something instead?

Like fitness levels etc that can be used by the game for more benefit other than to just look at and gloat.

Perhaps a future iteration of the Six updater/game finder/whateveritis might one day use a version of the persistent server to facilitate something like this? It's really the only (non-BIS) organisation (that I can immediately think of anyway) that might do something like this.

[rye1 21]

Haha I like it Liquidpinky, "Arma's own case of natural selection". :D OK maybe artificially built up by killing everyone methodically selection.

I agree with Iroquois, as I stated it would be too bloody easy is they went down because of a few bursts from my LMG. A fireteam could then out-do a section of AI.

If you're WOUNDED I can agree with blacking out or losing some amount of vision. The hunter turns into the hunted.

Your character already gets the shakes, already breathes heavily and loses accuracy. Except maybe in vehicles.

I also hate this term suppressive fire, it reminds me of movies when you hear the lead hero shout it to his troops and these 19 year old idiots fire everywhere with all their magazines. I prefer the term preventative fire, to prevent the enemy moving upon you or conducting a tactical maneuver. If they were to fire over your heads as seen currently, I also wish they would fire at exit points and lock you into buildings or use grenades on that target area. Of course, knowing AI they'll stand in the open to throw a grenade or set up an MG 20 meters from you. :D

I think suppression effects could be linked to having the surprise, i.e. you've not been caught -- that first engagement should give you a big pro instead of AI automatically adopting their readiness. I.e. flinch, stutter, hesitate, they may adopt random positions and leave themselves at a disadvantage, they may scatter, flee or shoot randomly.

http://www.slideshare.net/trevthrasher/behavior-based-cqb-short

Video removed due to problematic content

Very interesting how people react, huh?

Edited August 23, 2012 by [FRL]Myke

[Madeon 6]

I also hate this term suppressive fire, it reminds me of movies when you hear the lead hero shout it to his troops and these 19 year old idiots fire everywhere with all their magazines.

Well then you clearly dont know jack shit about the military. Watch video at 2:15, then have a good hard think about what you just wrote.

Link removed due to problematic content.

Edited August 23, 2012 by [FRL]Myke

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

But in ArmA II there is also a kind of suppression effect, you breath faster and can't aim anymore, I don't understand what would be so bad if your screen just truns a bit more gray, to simlulate adrenalin.

OK, now we're getting closer: to simulate adrenalin. Can someone clearly define how would it look like and what are the physical effects of it, if any?

I recall adrenalin sharpening my vision during extreme danger situations in real life - tunnel vision is subjective, your periphery is still utilised perfectly fine.

So in conclusion, a little of motion blur around the edges is what you people want? Please, somebody define it already. :(

P.S. To reiterate on my position of military engagements: people knew fucking well when they signed up in the military, and if they start weeping, praying and otherwise being irrational, then it's just a Darwin award winner waiting to happen.

[Tonci87 163]

OK, now we're getting closer: to simulate adrenalin. Can someone clearly define how would it look like and what are the physical effects of it, if any?

I recall adrenalin sharpening my vision during extreme danger situations in real life - tunnel vision is subjective, your periphery is still utilised perfectly fine.

So in conclusion, a little of motion blur around the edges is what you people want? Please, somebody define it already. :(

P.S. To reiterate on my position of military engagements: people knew fucking well when they signed up in the military, and if they start weeping, praying and otherwise being irrational, then it's just a Darwin award winner waiting to happen.

There you have it. Adrenaline makes you react super fast and sharpens your senses, but you get tunnel vision. Shaking and stuff like that comes after the danger is over!

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

There you have it. Adrenaline makes you react super fast and sharpens your senses, but you get tunnel vision. Shaking and stuff like that comes after the danger is over!

But that's a first-time, virgins only. When you've been around danger all your life, the subjective feel of the tunnel vision quickly dissipates and you often get what everyone had seen in the "Skittles Diplomacy" video - kill or be killed.

[dmarkwick 261]

OK, now we're getting closer: to simulate adrenalin. Can someone clearly define how would it look like and what are the physical effects of it, if any?

I recall adrenalin sharpening my vision during extreme danger situations in real life - tunnel vision is subjective, your periphery is still utilised perfectly fine.

So in conclusion, a little of motion blur around the edges is what you people want? Please, somebody define it already. :(

I think there have been plenty of anecdotal comments already in this thread: people mention tunnel vission, abilities diminishing, physical effects etc.

P.S. To reiterate on my position of military engagements: people knew fucking well when they signed up in the military, and if they start weeping, praying and otherwise being irrational, then it's just a Darwin award winner waiting to happen.

Ridiculous comment is ridiculous. I shall do you the enormous favour of ignoring it and pretending you didn't say it.

---------- Post added at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

There you have it. Adrenaline makes you react super fast and sharpens your senses, but you get tunnel vision. Shaking and stuff like that comes after the danger is over!

Yep that's been established. I suggest that the shaking aim is there not to simulate adrenaline, but immediate fear. It's not accurate, but it's a mechanism to deter you from acting in a way you wouldn't IRL. Those who are saying they don't need it because they're already hiding - fine, you won't be affected either way? :)

Edited August 23, 2012 by DMarkwick

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I think there have been plenty of anecdotal comments already in this thread: people mention tunnel vission, abilities diminishing, physical effects etc.

Then there's clearly a lot of people with health problems in this world.

Ridiculous comment is ridiculous. I shall do you the enormous favour of ignoring it and pretending you didn't say it.

And what did you think would happen when a human being gets torn into two? Rainbow fountain? Patriotic duty of killing fellow human beings is so patriotic, until shit actually hits the fan and the idiot is weeping face down praying to whatever deity he has in his head, while the other side is doing the same thing, minus the weeping. Fucking yenius.

Yep that's been established. I suggest that the shaking aim is there not to simulate adrenaline, but immediate fear. It's not accurate, but it's amechanism to deter you from acting in a way you wouldn't IRL. Those who are saying they don't need it because they're already hiding - fine, you won't be affected either way? :)

I think you people may want to look into RPGs.

Jesus wept the perceptions the sterile-environment crowd has of the real world is frightening.

[Madeon 6]

P.S. To reiterate on my position of military engagements: people knew fucking well when they signed up in the military, and if they start weeping, praying and otherwise being irrational, then it's just a Darwin award winner waiting to happen.

Check out video at 4:38 -

Video removed due to explicit content

Do you recall the famous photographs of 2 marines being gunned down in the middle of a street in Fallujah during operation Phantom Fury in 2004? There is a sad story behind that horrible incident. When the first marine was shot by a insurgent sniper while running across the street the platoon leader ordered the other marines to stay off the street because it was too dangerous. One of the marines disobeyed the platoon leaders order and ran into the street to rescue the wounded marine (he was the wounded marines best friend). The platoon leader, realising that the disobedient marine would likely also be killed by the sniper if he tried to save his friend alone, ran out to assist. As soon as the disobedient marine reached down to grab his wounded buddy the platoon leader heard the wounded marine say "I knew you would come". Unfortunately the disobedient marine was also shot dead by the sniper and the platoon leader quickly ran back to cover.

Sorry for going a little off-topic, but my point is that in combat stress can sometimes cause unpredictable effects on men.

Edited August 23, 2012 by [FRL]Myke
Video removed

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

What a farce, one unstable soldier losing it, while the rest of the squad is functional - what do you want to prove with it? If that was the norm, humans wouldn't evolve past hunter-gatherer cave-hiding monkeys.

---------- Post added at 11:53 ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 ----------

And since when are videos posting of real-life engagements not against the rules on this forum? Well, not to be outdone, I see your U.S. mortar video and raise you this,

Video removed due to problematic content

/Thread.

Edited August 23, 2012 by [FRL]Myke

[batto 17]

@Madeon: By the way, your story has nothing to do with the video.

[G4meM0ment 1]

Yes but it would eventually cancel out whatever suppression effect is put in place.

I had a thought to introduce real fear, or at least an incentive to survive.

DayZ introduced the persistence server into A2, what if your own avatar gained actual skill over time or training and upon death it was reset back to zero.

Would give you a reason not to die, making real life suppression techniques without visual gimmicks work.

Nothing game breaking, just the ability to carry a little more with less fatigue. Maybe slightly faster turn speeds etc. Things you can proudly work on and have an incentive to keep you avatar alive.

Not talking stupid unlock-able camos or crap like that, proper usable skills like you would get if you were a real soldier undergoing real training.

Would make me think twice before Ramboing out from behind cover.

I think that won't work because you won't skill within 10 min or ar least 5 hours, also the ArmA mp games won't take so long.

I could only imagine this in sp and coop where its saved and will be reset to the pint it was when you saved last if you die.

On the other hand you can't train to have less adrenalin in your body.

[Madeon 6]

What a farce, one unstable soldier losing it, while the rest of the squad is functional - what do you want to prove with it?

My point is that humans aren't robots. Now getting back on topic, when incoming bullets are coming in thick and fast most men instinctively take cover in fear. It's called self preservation.

Picture removed due to problematic content

Edited August 23, 2012 by [FRL]Myke

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

My point is that humans aren't robots. Now getting back on topic, when incoming bullets are coming in thick and fast most men instinctively take cover in fear. It's called self preservation.

Of course we're not fucking robots - holy fucking shit I just finished watching your video in its entirety - you better remove that: there's a dead child, several more children wounded, a family devastated and you want me to sympathize with some fucking monkey with an M-16 losing it?

[batto 17]

My point is that humans aren't robots. Now getting back on topic, when incoming bullets are coming in thick and fast most men instinctively take cover in fear. It's called self preservation.

http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-200904/390feb5766e17629467f37b5c2925f8a.jpg

What's your point? Would you like to just sit in the chair and watch long animation of your avatar going crazy when you encounter enemy fire in ArmA the game? As I said, I can do many many other suicidal things in ArmA without single gfx and sfx fear effect. Game shouldn't simulate fear. It's up to you to decide if you want to try luck and die.

[dmarkwick 261]

Then there's clearly a lot of people with health problems in this world.

And what did you think would happen when a human being gets torn into two? Rainbow fountain? Patriotic duty of killing fellow human beings is so patriotic, until shit actually hits the fan and the idiot is weeping face down praying to whatever deity he has in his head, while the other side is doing the same thing, minus the weeping. Fucking yenius.

I don't even know what you're trying to convey now, I think it's established that you're not exactly rational about this topic.

Jesus wept the perceptions the sterile-environment crowd has of the real world is frightening.

Yeah. ArmA is a game remember. If you wish to romp against AI heroically - go right ahead, no-one shall stop you :) myself, I like a little mechanic that dissuades me from making moves I know are a bad idea IRL. Some people don't like that idea, fine I'm good with that, no problem. For others its a nice little gameplay enhancer that also dissuades MP idiocy :)

Toodles.

[liquidpinky 11]

I think that won't work because you won't skill within 10 min or ar least 5 hours, also the ArmA mp games won't take so long.

I could only imagine this in sp and coop where its saved and will be reset to the pint it was when you saved last if you die.

On the other hand you can't train to have less adrenalin in your body.

Nope, reset to zero, makes the fear greater.

Resetting to previous stats woukld make it pointless as you wouldn't lose enough to make the system worthwhile and effective. Basically a dead is Dead scenario.

You could build up your avatars fitness during SP training exercises also to supplement what you do in MP. Like a real soldier would be doing prior to going into battle anyway.

Maybe include a bar or two for maximum realism, granting you a hangover instead of a stats boost.