More realistic/depressing feeling

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Are you saying there's no suppression effects going on there?

Apart from bullets flying, no. RPG hit them at one point, resulting a shellshock ringing effect, but that's nothing major. Again, I haven't seen good examples of what people are describing: if they want ACE 2 effects of deafness, shellshock, loss of consciousness upon being severely wounded, then I suppose we could have such mechanics in vanilla. Anything above that would be overkill and gimmicks.

[G4meM0ment 1]

Apart from bullets flying, no. RPG hit them at one point, resulting a shellshock ringing effect, but that's nothing major. Again, I haven't seen good examples of what people are describing: if they want ACE 2 effects of deafness, shellshock, loss of consciousness upon being severely wounded, then I suppose we could have such mechanics in vanilla. Anything above that would be overkill and gimmicks.

Yeah thats what I want, but with a visual before losing consciousness for example, no one is standing here and shooting and in the next moment he lays on the ground, I think there should be something before, such as a more bad view or less concentartion.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Yeah thats what I want, but with a visual before losing consciousness for example, no one is standing here and shooting and in the next moment he lays on the ground.

It is rather obvious he had been hit by an underbarrel grenade and knocked unconscious with multiple bleed wounds, which resulted in his death moments later.

I think there should be something before, such as a more bad view or less concentartion.

Simply: no. Most of the ammunition fired on the battlefield travels at 800+ m/s, which is multiples of the speed of sound - if that hits you, there won't be any epic slow-motion or warning, you will drop dead.

[dmarkwick 261]

OK so you like audio effects but not visual effects...? ;)

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

OK so you like audio effects but not visual effects...? ;)

Shellshock is a very well researched "feature" of the human nervous system dating back to World War I, it is far easier to go deaf, than to start having hallucinations by merely having bullets fly past you. Nor will your vision be reduced in any way due to the aforementioned scenarios - the human eye is a very resilient organ by itself and the system that governs it is also well adapted and dependable.

[maddogx 13]

Most of the ammunition fired on the battlefield travels at 800+ m/s, which is multiples of the speed of sound - if that hits you, there won't be any epic slow-motion or warning, you will drop dead.

So much is wrong about this statement, it boggles the mind.

It is entirely possible to take a hit to a non-fatal area and bleed out slowly. Loss of blood pressure can lead to impaired vision, dizziness etc. before you pass out.

[PuFu 4600]

so much facepalm has to be given for this thread....

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

So much is wrong about this statement, it boggles the mind.

It is entirely possible to take a hit to a non-fatal area and bleed out slowly. Loss of blood pressure can lead to impaired vision, dizziness etc. before you pass out.

So we're simulating internal organs now? Which of the features comes one before the other? ;) Show me an example, so far ACE 2 and vanilla cut it, I haven't seen your implementation anywhere.

---------- Post added at 20:52 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------

Incidentally, here's a "non-vital organ shot",

J-zH3a07XVw

Time stamp: 5:00. ACE 2. Everyone wants the epic, uber, "suppression", "derpression" effects, yes? Good - you may use ACE 2 as an example. BIS, you have my permission to go forward with this. :)

[Sealife 22]

I think the thread was put in good intention but for me the missing thing in this situation is

Fear

an unpleasant and often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger.

i just dont feel it Visually in public server or in Clan servers ,however in the latter with teamspeak Fear of letting the side down and closer ties with the people in your group can sometimes transcend that fear factor into the person.

Dare i say it , DAYZ because of the consequence and situations in which you are shot at are more intense relays the Fear factor More than any Arma "normal" situation :) .

[maddogx 13]

So we're simulating internal organs now? Which of the features comes one before the other? ;) Show me an example, so far ACE 2 and vanilla cut it, I haven't seen your implementation anywhere.

We're not simulating anything yet, let alone implementing. This is a discussion about what could or should be in Arma3, not what exists already in ACE2 or vanilla Arma2.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

We're not simulating anything yet, let alone implementing. This is a discussion about what could or should be in Arma3, not what exists already in ACE2 or vanilla Arma2.

Precisely and the OP still hasn't formulated, or presented his case; I had to define it for him. What I need to remind everyone, is that we're not talking injuries, but adding some artificial "fear" system to simulate "danger" and subjectively reduce your ability to effectively fight back.

It would seem there aren't enough high testosterone recruits for the army these days.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I think the thread was put in good intention but for me the missing thing in this situation is

Fear

an unpleasant and often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger.

i just dont feel it Visually in public server or in Clan servers ,however in the latter with teamspeak Fear of letting the side down and closer ties with the people in your group can sometimes transcend that fear factor into the person.

Dare i say it , DAYZ because of the consequence and situations in which you are shot at are more intense relays the Fear factor More than any Arma "normal" situation :) .

Absolutely agreeing with this :)

[froggyluv 2136]

Clearly there is only one solution to this diatribe erhm debate: An EKG and Cortisol monitor that inputs from player to PC and outputs to a persistant database. Those who are agitated will have to face that in game. Right on the heels of that technology - fear of zombies infiltrating a military world monitor....stay tuned!

[Covert_Death 11]

I like the idea of having some suppression feature when being shot at. mentioned earlier in the thread someone said when they were under fire in RL they had "tunnel vision" this is true even in paintball or airsoft. when under fire your eyes focus in the center and your senses ignore what is around you as you focus on what is firing at you. I would propose the game have these features for sound and sight. when you are being suppressed it would make sense for your vision to tunnel, just make a circle and blur out the outside (similar to how NV works) as for sound I am sure there would be a way to heighten the sound that is in the direction of where your character is looking while at the same time greatly reducing the sound to your sides and behind you. i think this would make for a more realistic scenario. how many times have we seen in war movies the soldier comes under fire, everything else goes quiet as his focus is solely on the shooter???

just something to think about

[NoRailgunner 0]

OP should post what he said:

I'll try to find a video where it's shown good how I mean it.

[dmarkwick 261]

It would seem there aren't enough high testosterone recruits for the army these days.

Ah, I see, now I get it.

[Bee8190 10]

I am happy with ACE and how it simulates things

The deafening when fired mortar or howitzer or when they drop on the ground it's IMO not overdone, feels immersive - realistic and would be good ''start'' to have in vanilla.

It would seem there aren't enough high testosterone recruits for the army these days.

I'm not sure if ''suicidal'' is equal to having a balls these days. The possibility that soldier get wounded and cripple his unit flexibility\ability, to stay 100% combat ready, is not desired.

I guess in WW1 or WW2, one needed the balls but today's equipment and tools (all kind's of support we can imagine) to get the task/job done and just seems to push towards stealthiness, safety, distance where applicable.

I'm not however saying that today's soldiers don't have any balls at all mind you :), What I am saying is that they work more tactically and have better tools for the job while staying relatively safe. Hope it makes sense :)

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Clearly there is only one solution to this diatribe erhm debate: An EKG and Cortisol monitor that inputs from player to PC and outputs to a persistant database. Those who are agitated will have to face that in game. Right on the heels of that technology - fear of zombies infiltrating a military world monitor....stay tuned!

Hey, you know, electrodes in the brain is the next step in immersion! Might as well simulate post-traumatic stress disorders and everything else taken from a psychiatric encyclopedia.

What OP describes is real, but it manifests months after the action is over, because mere adrenaline will keep you going and no you will not get any hallucinations during combat in real life.

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

I'm not sure if ''suicidal'' is equal to having a balls these days. The possibility that soldier get wounded and cripple his unit flexibility\ability, to stay 100% combat ready, is not desired.

It has to do with evolutionary fight or flight, if you're pinned down hardcore, bet your life you will fight back any way given any margin of success. There's no try, there's do.

---------- Post added at 11:24 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

Ah, I see, now I get it.

Indeed, male health seems to be deteriorating these days, and I came within an inch of calling you all pussies, but you know that. :p ;)

[Madeon 6]

mere adrenaline will keep you going and no you will not get any hallucinations during combat in real life.

NE1l4-vo8I4

It's easy for us to sit in our comfortable chairs telling everyone how brave we would be under fire, but truth is that most of us here we will never know for sure...

[rye1 21]

when they were under fire in RL they had "tunnel vision" this is true even in paintball or airsoft.

Other facts I've found across time. There are quite good documentaries on killology and death which state a lot of these combat happenings and get down and gritty with the truth of human exposure to almost certain death.

Up to a 1/4 of soldiers piss themselves on contact say some reports (WW2 era). I even remember the Generation Kill (GK) scene where they make the journalist buy them adult diapers from the PX (Post Exchange) due to this battleground fact that it happens.

Only 25% of soldiers in WW2 shot to kill say others; a lot of soldiers shot high, low, you name it. That figure is apparently at 95% in modern warfare (Afghanistan, Iraq).

Fight or flight response (sympathetic system, adrenaline) kicks in.

Getting the shakes is common of occurrence.

Lower centre of gravity automatically and hands come up to protect the face.

The jump or startle (gotta learn to ride it instead of try to control it).

Legs feel heavy.

Heavy breathing, chest hurts.

Feeling of wanting to curl up as distress signals go nuts (for some, mainly the untrained).

Wanting to flee; survival instinct kicks in.

Cases of hysterical blindness and so on.

Brain freeze, helmet fire.

Distortion of time.

Smaller peripheral vision.

Fear breeding paranoia which has stated the case of hallucinations and miss-sightings.

Heart rate jacked, 145bpm!

Over time you can learn to adjust these instinctive patterns: Look at Mike Tyson. Everyone else in the ring may flinch, stutter, hesitate, get startled, etc.

I don't know about you but I feel fear in PVP, I have been startled, I have wanted to GTFO a situation, I've had helmet fire x 1,000,000 (May stem from leading the unleadable?), my heart rates been bumped but not that high. I've knocked a few off that list. :D OH ARMA. Interesting discussion none the less, I don't have a clue what's going on, I just popped my head in but GOODBYE!

[dmarkwick 261]

Indeed, male health seems to be deteriorating these days, and I came within an inch of calling you all pussies, but you know that. :p ;)

Yes, we know that :) :P

But I'm still of the opinion that ArmA generally seems to be realistic, as long as that realism means overwhelming technological advantage & one-way suppression ;) you might say pussies, but I would retort with armchair hero :D

Anyway, optional suppression seems to be generally agreeable yes?

[metalcraze 290]

As long as it's ON or OFF both for player and AI and never separately for any of them.

[dmarkwick 261]

Other facts I've found across time. There are quite good documentaries on killology and death which state a lot of these combat happenings and get down and gritty with the truth of human exposure to almost certain death.

Up to a 1/4 of soldiers piss themselves on contact say some reports (WW2 era). I even remember the Generation Kill (GK) scene where they make the journalist buy them adult diapers from the PX (Post Exchange) due to this battleground fact that it happens.

Only 25% of soldiers in WW2 shot to kill say others; a lot of soldiers shot high, low, you name it. That figure is apparently at 95% in modern warfare (Afghanistan, Iraq).

Fight or flight response (sympathetic system, adrenaline) kicks in.

Getting the shakes is common of occurrence.

Lower centre of gravity automatically and hands come up to protect the face.

The jump or startle (gotta learn to ride it instead of try to control it).

Legs feel heavy.

Heavy breathing, chest hurts.

Feeling of wanting to curl up as distress signals go nuts (for some, mainly the untrained).

Wanting to flee; survival instinct kicks in.

Cases of hysterical blindness and so on.

Brain freeze, helmet fire.

Distortion of time.

Smaller peripheral vision.

Fear breeding paranoia which has stated the case of hallucinations and miss-sightings.

Heart rate jacked, 145bpm!

Over time you can learn to adjust these instinctive patterns: Look at Mike Tyson. Everyone else in the ring may flinch, stutter, hesitate, get startled, etc.

I don't know about you but I feel fear in PVP, I have been startled, I have wanted to GTFO a situation, I've had helmet fire x 1,000,000 (May stem from leading the unleadable?), my heart rates been bumped but not that high. I've knocked a few off that list. :D OH ARMA. Interesting discussion none the less, I don't have a clue what's going on, I just popped my head in but GOODBYE!

A good resource that post is :) thanks for taking the time. I might suggest varying degrees of inbound suppression based on Experience setting? That way you get to make yourself the hero if you wish, or a normal soldier.

[maddogx 13]

As long as it's ON or OFF both for player and AI and never separately for any of them.

That seems fair.

[dmarkwick 261]

As long as it's ON or OFF both for player and AI and never separately for any of them.

I think I'd be happy with an optional setting for player only, as I said I have a suppression addon but I sometimes disable it for me because sometimes I want a different, simpler more heroic gameplay. I don't always play hardcore ;)