Advanced DX11 and PHYSX features

[dunk 10]

Hello there once again, after a long hiatus I have decided to return and ask a simple question. Whether to receive insight from the general community or have questions answered from the DEVs themselves.

Even if not utilised will the more advanced DX11 features and Hardware accelerated PHYSX still be implemented into the engine for modders to use? The reason I felt (and I honestly hope I am not going against the rules here) this needed a unique thread is that I am inquiring as to features that have all but been confirmed to not be featured in the game itself. This ranges from DX11 features such as tessellation and multi-dimensional tessellation and PHYSX features such as hardware accelerated hard/soft body and fluid dynamics. While DX11 and PHYSX are confirmed part of the game engine, from what I understand these things are for a personal lack of better words, modular. Specific features of these individual middlewares can be implemented into the game engine whilst leaving others out.

So in conclusion I am more than well aware that DX11 and PHYSX are in the game but what I do not know is whether features that have been all but confirmed to not be in the game itself will still be in the engine for others to tinker with(multi-dimensional tessellation for damage models, hardware acceleration) . Lastly how do you personally think the inclusion of such things in the engine itself to be utilised by the modding community will affect the overall experience and evolution of mods and development?

Thank you for your time.

[frostwyrm333 1]

Fluid dynamics, I have seen this before :D. Things you mention are performance hungry and gameplay useless. Modding capabilities are still largely unknown. They mentioned tessellation before, at best it will only make the terrain a bit more diverse (as a noise applied to grid)

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm looking forward to seeing how modders can tinker with any configged PhysX properties - and I'm thinking mostly about ragdoll settings here, although vehicle settings would benefit also - but I doubt the implementation would go much further than that. Even so, it's a huge leap forward. I guess the major limiting factor would be how MP-friendly each feature is.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I'm looking forward to seeing how modders can tinker with any configged PhysX properties

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especially. ;) ;) ;)

[sgtice 10]

Atleast it would look funnier when you Yell Geronimo.

[noone1 1]

Tessellated units, vehicles, terrain and water would be cool but I have heard tessellation kills performance.

[max power 21]

Tessellation would be largely not applicable in ArmA 3, I would think. Maybe for main characters or something. They do have a lot of detail on their maps but nothing that really seems to cry out for tessellation. We'll see I suppose. Tessellation on vehicles would be a waste of time IMO.

[liquidpinky 11]

Tessellation would be largely not applicable in ArmA 3, I would think. Maybe for main characters or something. They do have a lot of detail on their maps but nothing that really seems to cry out for tessellation. We'll see I suppose. Tessellation on vehicles would be a waste of time IMO.

Always worth it for those wheels, nothing worse than watching hexagonal wheels go round.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Always worth it for those wheels, nothing worse than watching hexagonal wheels go round.

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Depending on the difference in performance, it could be used for terrain somewhere down the line.

[noubernou 77]

Tessellation would be largely not applicable in ArmA 3, I would think. Maybe for main characters or something. They do have a lot of detail on their maps but nothing that really seems to cry out for tessellation. We'll see I suppose. Tessellation on vehicles would be a waste of time IMO.

Terrain tessellation would be very nice. The static LODs are just not cutting it anymore (re Outerra where the more terrain you see the higher FPS you get)

[tremanarch 6]

visibility on tesselation could be low range and blurry /blend into normal textures maybe?

[rasdenfasden 12]

I'm hoping for "constraints" and attachment stuff such as ropes or even garry's mod style "welds", simply for the sake of doing even more ridiculous things along the lines of what's been done with attachto.

[BasileyOne 10]

both DirectCompute and OpenCL parts of DirectX and SDL/OpenMAX API's allow to code its more seamlessly.

while PhysX can't. can't scale. up 2 that level.

[MavericK96 0]

I think I'd be pretty disappointed if tessellation was not utilized at all. It would be great for terrain and, depending on how optimized the implementation is, the performance hit shouldn't be bad at all if you have a decent enough card to play the game with in the first place.

[PuFu 4600]

both DirectCompute and OpenCL parts of DirectX and SDL/OpenMAX API's allow to code its more seamlessly.

while PhysX can't. can't scale. up 2 that level.

can't scale up to what?

[Fap 1]

Tessellation would be largely not applicable in ArmA 3, I would think. Maybe for main characters or something. They do have a lot of detail on their maps but nothing that really seems to cry out for tessellation. We'll see I suppose. Tessellation on vehicles would be a waste of time IMO.

Tessellation is probably the most wanted feature in any-game, alongside cheap anti aliasing.

It adds level of detail that you can't possibly imagine at a much lower cost of performance compared to just adding high detail textures, plus it gives you the option of fine-tuning the details for optimum performance. Who wouldn't love that? :)

---------- Post added at 00:11 ---------- Previous post was at 00:08 ----------

visibility on tesselation could be low range and blurry /blend into normal textures maybe?

You should try the unigine heaven benchmark, or watch a video on youtube(or something of your choice), showing tessellation with wireframe mode on, it's amazing.

---------- Post added at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:11 ----------

I'm hoping for "constraints" and attachment stuff such as ropes or even garry's mod style "welds", simply for the sake of doing even more ridiculous things along the lines of what's been done with attachto.

Haha oh god yes.

Though I was thinking something like the Just Cause grappling hook, so you could grapple your friends onto a speeding jeep. Now see.... that's fun.

[max power 21]

Tessellation is probably the most wanted feature in any-game, alongside cheap anti aliasing.

It adds level of detail that you can't possibly imagine at a much lower cost of performance compared to just adding high detail textures, plus it gives you the option of fine-tuning the details for optimum performance. Who wouldn't love that? :)

Want is different from need and also different from possible. What would you sacrifice for tessellation? View distance? This is like saying a ferrari showing up in your driveway would be super awesome because they are fun to drive. Unfortunately, you also have to pay for insurance, gas, and maintenance.

Why not just have higher polygon wheels in the first LOD? Solving this problem with tessellation is going quite a bit overboard... now, if you said that the treads on the tyres needed to be there or else you were going to throw a fit or something, that would make more sense for tessellation, but less sense for... you know... everything else.

Tessellation doesn't allow you to take a really low poly mesh and make it super high poly. It takes one that's already fairly descent and adds lots and lots of detail. Given the number of objects, entities, and polygons already on screen at the same time in ArmA, I think that an extremely sparing use of it to bring some life out some something that's both mostly lacking and also extremely important in ArmA... not car tyres.

[bigpickle 0]

I'm looking forward to seeing how modders can tinker with any configged PhysX properties - and I'm thinking mostly about ragdoll settings here, although vehicle settings would benefit also

Absolutely mate, we might also see some real fun mods too. If the PhysX stuff can be altered we might see some great space mods because of the low gravity. Anyone fancy battling Nazis on the moon ;p

visibility on tesselation could be low range and blurry /blend into normal textures maybe?

In theory, would that help with the age of pop up issue?

[liquidpinky 11]

In theory, would that help with the age of pop up issue?

I think one of the main advantages of DX11 would be smoother LOD transitions, who wouldn't want that?

[Ekko 1]

I think one of the main advantages of DX11 would be smoother LOD transitions, who wouldn't want that?

How much smoother LOD transitions are we talking? I would like it if they vere fast and precise, because its a bit distracting in ArmA 2 when they change 0.5 seconds after you zoom in.

[dmarkwick 261]

Absolutely mate, we might also see some real fun mods too. If the PhysX stuff can be altered we might see some great space mods because of the low gravity. Anyone fancy battling Nazis on the moon ;p

Iron Sky mod? :D

My thoughts were actually of going the other way - making units & vehicles more leaden. Games in general exaggerate an object's ability to bounce & slide etc, so I'd like to see a unit slump down like a sack of potatoes not theatrically pinwheel all over the place :)

From what I have already seen though, it's looking generally good. Explosions do cause theatrical pinwheeling, and static units shot dead slump down slowly IMO, but a unit shot while running falls down just great.

[Minoza 11]

How much smoother LOD transitions are we talking? I would like it if they vere fast and precise, because its a bit distracting in ArmA 2 when they change 0.5 seconds after you zoom in.

Just take a look at any tessellation demo and you'll see. You can't really notice a transition at all.

[Madeon 6]

but a unit shot while running falls down just great.

Another nice detail in the ragdoll animations is sometimes when a soldier is shot and falls down he manages to hold up his head during his dying gasps for air, then slowly his head slumps to the ground as he fades away and dies. It happens to the soldier that falls to the left at 2:07

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[Pyronick 21]

Opening up the complete featureset of PhysX to modders could stimulate a Garry's Mod for ArmA 3.

And we all know how popular GMod is. And it's awesome aswell of course! Imagine the possibilities!

[Ekko 1]

Just take a look at any tessellation demo and you'll see. You can't really notice a transition at all.

Damn, thats awesome! ArmA 3 can benefit from this if they don't use a too heavy based tessellation(because I want to be able to play the game with over 50 fps). But the question is, can they afford it?