AI Improvement

[bigshot 64]

look around in a natural fashion?, pffft....I'd be happy as a pig in slop if they'd simply learn to follow me on foot without constantly falling 300m behind.

...state your location!....where ARE you?....state your location....where ARE you?....can ya hear me NOW??????

ya know what?...set up a little test for yourself and your friendly (but lazy and stupid) AI...place yourself on the map somewhere with a grouped ai member and an empty Hammer jeep. Plot a waypoint on the map about 700-1,000m away by using left shift + right click (or is that left click?). Now put map away and tell him to get into the jeep and tell him to go to next waypoint (f1-1-9). You start off on foot by yourself towards that same waypoint and see who gets there first...typically Ill always get there first even though Im only on foot and the bot is in a vehicle.

I mean, heh...there are serious issues like this with the core gameplay right now (and many other worse ones where the AI stops responding entirely!). The bottom line for core gameplay mechanics in any shooter is this: movement/shooting/dieing, period...and until those core gameplay facets are working in a pleasing way I think all the little extra quirky/fluffy stuff can wait till beta or beyond even.

Edited April 17, 2013 by BigShot

[chrisb 196]

snip "so is bohemia ever going to fix this"? snip

Not sure they can, don’t think they know how.

Without modded ai your really nowhere in this series. Problem is the best ai modders are hibernating, have been for a few years now, hope someone can find them and wake them up….;)

[chortles 263]

Not sure they can, don’t think they know how.

The story of Arma, in eight words. Same goes for the infamous "optimization".

[Sjc 10]

hi.

in the ArmA 3 features, it has been said that the AI will be improved.

I'd like to know if we could have more informations about it:

for example, in ArmA 1 and 2, the AI driving and pathfinding was terrific, even on a straight road, especially when we wanted to make a convoy.

or the pilot AI (who had just the name and look of pilot):

will the AI abl to drive and find their way better than now, or pilot air vehicles better?

or, for example, make only "pilot" guys able to pilot a chopper or a plane? cause until now, if the vehicle was unlocked, even a infantry guy could take a jet or a chopper and fly with it...

again, what about the combat behaviour?

a lot of ArmA 2 mod (like Zeus AI, or ASR AI) make the AI much more effective during the fight (find cover, fire at the enemy much more often, take weapons or ammo from dead bodies):

will the ArmA 3 AI be more like this?

for example, when I put en enemy group on the map, and a flying chopper, the gunners have problems to engage the infantry (they will only fire a round or two, every 20 seconds if I'm lucky...), whereas if I use Zeus AI, the gunner will really fire at the guys on the ground.

thanks for the answer.

Wiki

I have to disagree Wiki, the AI pathfinding in land vehicles, I feel has not improved (I have the alpha lite 0.54) and am flabergasted as to how to get the AI to drive over that small bridge in Marina (is it?). This has been an issue throughout the arma series and you might note there are no rivers in Takistan or Chernarus, where in Arma the bridge on the west side of Corazol became a real pain for AI that would end up getting stuck under it as they couldn't find their way across it most times. Creating smarter AI is critical to A3.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Sjc

[HKFlash 9]

I have to disagree Wiki, the AI pathfinding in land vehicles, I feel has not improved (I have the alpha lite 0.54) and am flabergasted as to how to get the AI to drive over that small bridge in Marina (is it?). This has been an issue throughout the arma series and you might note there are no rivers in Takistan or Chernogorsk, where in Arma the bridge on the west side of Corazol became a real pain for AI that would end up getting stuck under it as they couldn't find their way across it most times. Creating smarter AI is critical to A3.

That is corrected in the latest dev build I tested it myself.

[Simas 12]

That is corrected in the latest dev build I tested it myself.

Not really.. latest dev build:

[cadmium77 16]

look around in a natural fashion?, pffft....I'd be happy as a pig in slop if they'd simply learn to follow me on foot without constantly falling 300m behind.

...state your location!....where ARE you?....state your location....where ARE you?....can ya hear me NOW??????

ya know what?...set up a little test for yourself and your friendly (but lazy and stupid) AI...place yourself on the map somewhere with a grouped ai member and an empty Hammer jeep. Plot a waypoint on the map about 700-1,000m away by using left shift + right click (or is that left click?). Now put map away and tell him to get into the jeep and tell him to go to next waypoint (f1-1-9). You start off on foot by yourself towards that same waypoint and see who gets there first...typically Ill always get there first even though Im only on foot and the bot is in a vehicle.

I mean, heh...there are serious issues like this with the core gameplay right now (and many other worse ones where the AI stops responding entirely!). The bottom line for core gameplay mechanics in any shooter is this: movement/shooting/dieing, period...and until those core gameplay facets are working in a pleasing way I think all the little extra quirky/fluffy stuff can wait till beta or beyond even.

Last edited by BigShot; 04-17-2013 at 06:13 AM.

The troops you're leading may be smarter than you. If they're in a full combat mode they may be advancing according to doctrine, not just chasing after you like a bunch of witless ninnies. There's about 3 or 5 different modes for units to be in...even real human beings aren't going to run headlong without a care for their health if there's bullets flying around.

[bigshot 64]

The troops you're leading may be smarter than you. If they're in a full combat mode they may be advancing according to doctrine, not just chasing after you like a bunch of witless ninnies. There's about 3 or 5 different modes for units to be in...even real human beings aren't going to run headlong without a care for their health if there's bullets flying around.

hehe, no offense but if you are not already aware of the AI behavior I was describing then you might have tried out my little test scenario (which uses no enemy on the map) before commenting about my level of intelligence, wow.

Edited April 20, 2013 by BigShot

[Lucasmnunesk 2]

I'm just wondering, i'm kinda of new to the ArmA series but is the AI excessive skilled? I mean, sometimes me and some friends we get them by surprise while on cover and them on the open with same numbers but still they manage to wipe us out, they have a very precise aim, even an autoriflemen barely miss when he shot on us, its just 1 or 2 shots before they get me.

[chrisb 196]

I'm just wondering, i'm kinda of new to the ArmA series but is the AI excessive skilled? .

Do they have excessive skills.. No..

But yes, they do seem to have god like aiming skills. I think, that BIS thinks, by giving them that, it will make up for the lack of any intelligence, which is clearly not present..;).

[Lucasmnunesk 2]

Thanks ChrisB, haha that's what i've meant, their aim and recoil management. My english is not really good and sometimes i don't express myself well. Almost any little failure against the AI result in a total wipeout of my fireteam, hope it changes. But thanks for explaining it to me.

[dnk 13]

@Lucas

It's been increased a lot in the alpha. OA had far more reasonably skilled AI, though it could be turned up to super-sniper AI if desired (Vet/Expert servers tended to have this effect, as I think those difficulty settings overrode whatever skill settings mission editors had given the AI unless scripted in).

I would suggest choosing between 0.1-0.25 for both aimaccuracy and aimshake for the AI. You can add a simple script to any mission to change that. I think Zeus AI has something that does it, too (check the addons forums).

[Lucasmnunesk 2]

Yep, i've been wondering wich settings would be best, because from what i've heard, if the aim skill of the AI is too low they tend to friendly fire. From what i've noticed the problem seems to be the AI first shot on each burst, the first shot is always perfect despite the situation and the next shots are more human. Thanks for all the help, going to play with the configs to find the best spot for my group of friends. Thanks a lot guys!

[Predator.v2 10]

A skill of 0.98 and an accuracy of 0.15 - 0.25 (zeuAI 0.2 +- 0.05) works good on our servers.

[katipo66 94]

Last night i was moving with my AI led group, we were out in the open when enemy opened fire from a few hundred meters out, what happened was my AI group retreated back about 50-80 meters under fire into the cover of a gully and then attempted to flank from within the cover of the gully.. it was pretty awesome to see and i just put it down to one of those Arma moments, but not so sure as it seemed quite deliberate.

Ive never seen them retreat to cover over a long distance non stop and quickly.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Katipo66

[chrisb 196]

Few simple tests for ai reactions that were a little lacking, but now hopefully not so..

Best watched in full screen at 1080p.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnIaAnqpdT8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmsfFnMluCQ&list=PLj7LIw2iwG-EzIR-0xT9_K9dbSAGrSLRA&index=18

The above I'm pleased with..:)

Smoke grenade reaction isn't there yet...:(

Edit: So to my delight it looks as though the AIA mod has inadvertently allowed some ai mods from a2 to work in a3. This is not fully yet, by the looks of things testing, but I’m really hopeful it will get even better (can’t really play with the a3 standard ai, far too backward feeling).

I have done quite a few various tests for ai, building use in particular, these tests look very promising, also a couple of new things I have noticed which will add more to the mix than previous.

Anyway it looks as though there may be a little light at the tunnels end for ai.

Its keeping it stable at present, or indeed keeping it at all, as it may disappear with more work carried out with AIA, still hope it stays and is usable in A3..:).

Edited April 23, 2013 by ChrisB

[Masharra 10]

One thing you may try using is @mcc_sandbox a3 version

I know the arma 2 version has a "ghost mode" where you are invisible and a teleport function, which should allow you to observe quite easily.

[DeclaredEvol 10]

The AI needs more logic inside of Buildings or they will just be facing the wall or something. I noticed this happening in almost every video I've seen, that is why I was complaining even before the Alpha. The also need to position themselves in corners and watch the doors... it helps :)

[dnk 13]

Yup, the direction of the current target needs to not be a primary factor when said target is obscured. By using whatever the devs did to stop AI from shooting at unseeable targets, they can also disable such targets from determining their orientation.

Additionally, AI REALLY need to be able to respond quickly to footsteps and nearby gunshots. They should be able to hear anyone moving within 10m and should consider these their primary target for at least 60sec after hearing them (meaning watching THAT direction, so players can't just sneak up on indoors units or shoot them through windows at point-blank).

[maturin 12]

The AI can acquire targets based on footsteps and gunshots quite well... but only the first time. In A2, at least, they will make a guess at the target's position. The problem being, that they then become utterly dogmatic and suffer from tunnel vision, refusing to change behavior based on new information.

As for buildings, since we're not going to get an overhaul for building behavior, they at least need to hard code AI to stare at the nearest window to perceived threats, rather than trying to bore holes in the bricks with their eyes.

[metalcraze 290]

Actually they need to code AI to react and turn to nearby targets/sound sources as fast as a player can (with current arcadish turning speed it should be instant). As it is now you can literally run up to AI and dance circles point blank around it and AI will never ever shoot you. And then you wonder why people demand knives...

[bad benson 1733]

just wanted to say that i noticed some changes to the AI lately in the dev build. it seems someone is working on some better taking fire routines.

what i noticed for example is that at least parts of a squad will run to near cover right after getting shot at. other parts of that squad will kind of comically but also effectively start turning around in circles looking for the shooter though. it still seems static and unfinished but i thought i might add something positive in here. dunno must be the weather today but i'm a little bit more optimistic to a reasonable degree;)

[chrisb 196]

@bad benson; I wish I had your optimism.

I think we’re going to need modded ai for a3 the same as we did for arma/2. But that’s o.k. provided it works in a3, the mods I am testing out at the moment do more or less everything they did in arma 2, well so far they do, which to me is promising. If I can just have that same amount of ai intelligence I had in arma 2 I will be happy enough, seeing that we are not going to have BIS go much further with ai in the near future.

Reaction to grenade sound and smoke grenade, is a problem, but that could be an alpha thing, certainly gunfire will draw their attention very quickly, even from a distance. Finding cover is no problem, infact its better in a3 than a2, the thing I am finding is that they tend to be a little more aggressive, which some find good, but I think it leads to dumber ai. Better to take the time and plan a tactic rather than just keep moving forward, however this can be tweaked via configs a little. Building use is getting there, with rooftops, balconies being used in much the same way as I had in a2, so I'm o.k. with that for now. We all want better, but its not going to happen if we're honest..

AIA has been good for ai so far, I know its not intentional, but its welcome nevertheless, just hope it keeps going in the right direction..

[metalcraze 290]

Their aggressiveness is a rather big problem and not any improvement. I absolutely like how in ArmA2 1.63 beta AI will always try to engage from max possible distance and won't advance unless clear. They will also stack along walls, trying to stay close to each other and advancing one by one across smaller distances very carefully. But in ArmA3 they just rush to their waypoint like idiots disregarding everything around them.

Infantry showcase is a very painful example of this. It's impossible to complete unless you will kill at least half of enemies on your own and most of the time it ends with you being the last man standing. At least on Veteran.

Edited April 26, 2013 by metalcraze

[killerwhale 1]

the AI also doesn't respond to grenades being thrown at them. it is as though they think grenades dont kill!, they should be dispersing and taking cover. lets hope the final game wont feature the same problems. the current TPWC mode for Arma3 to me is a joke:D, it probably contains codes like

X dowatch player

or something because they immediately know about your position and begin engaging without firs seeking cover. anybody can do that, no need for a mod. all you need is an "if" condition. Edited April 27, 2013 by killerwhale