Josppeh Kony's crimes against humanity

[Clarkey1 10]

Yeah it's been like that for half a century, I've seen campaigns come and go for many years, most quite shallow like this one. They don't achieve much, people claim hollow victories, get bored and it all fizzles out.

I'm puzzled why they are focused on Kony and Uganda and not the DRC next door (where Kony is now) which is full of Kony's and the child abduction, cannabalism, rape and butchery is/was 100 times worse? Not much was reported in the West about the wars in Congo in which Uganda and many other nations played a major part

Something that puzzles me is why groups like this are trying to convince everyone that something as convoluted as this can be solved by taking out one man. Why don't they tell people that the $30 they spent on this bracelet kit they're selling could go towards eye surgery or similar procedures that could drastically improve someones quality of life or go towards a project to bring clean running water to a rural area rather than running around trying to tell everyone that this civil war that they apparently have no clue about can be stopped by keeping one hundred US military advisers in country for a few more years. Sure clean water and education and proper medical facilities might not stop a war overnight, but if you have a few generations of educated and healthy kids they're going to be less likely to grow up like Kony. Kony should be stopped but he isn't the root of the problem.

EDIT: I know their are foundations focusing on these things which is good and does more towards the long term than Invisible Children will.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Clarkey1

[Archamedes 10]

I saw the video a few days ago and to be honest I couldn't care less about some videographer that made a 30 minute video completely filled with video edits made in after effects... However what he has done was genius, because regardless of how misguided he is, or how dodgy you all think his charity is... The man made an awareness video that got over 25 million views inside a week.

I stress the point that I can see a lot of people online (not just on this forum) but everywhere else that are trying to bitch and moan about this organization and where your money goes when you set up a donation. As said his special little proporganda video has sparked worldwide awareness of his cause.... But

1. Josepth Kony is real

2. The 30,000 children that have been abducted, raped and killed in nearly 3 decades are real

3. The relentless torment, destruction and upset due to the LRA is real

So can anyone truly say that before they saw this youtube clip, or watched "machine gun preacher" (that touched upon this situation using Gerard Butler) acually knew this all went on or even knew who Jospeh Kony was? We all knew that there was trouble in africa and at some point we all heard stories of children being given guns and forced to fight, but until now, we and the news media chose to ignore it. So in a week a guy puts a video online and suddenly the whole world is in shock, then naturally people come out to try and attack his motives.

But answer me this, if some african guy riding his bike recognises, Kony from that youtube clip, while he is hiding in some tent in the bush and is then arrested and prosecuted, then isn't it all worth it?

[rye1 21]

Don't worry, USSF are in there right now looking for him on the Uganda/Congo Border area.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-cites-progress-shadowy-africa-military-mission-235137636.html

[sagitarius_2k 10]

OqXrxTe-shw

Let World Police come to "captured" this bastard and let em to become "peace corp" for, until condition "stabilize", again :D

youtube comentator

This is an excuse for the US Gov't to enter Uganda FOR OIL... Geesh people! don't be fooled so easily.. do your research FIRST. African Union is being set up, this is whats really happening. Remember when The US Gov't said Iraq has "Nukes" so they have to stop Saddam Hussein but in reality they came for the OIL. Remember The US Gov't went into Afghanistan to "Capture" Osama Bin laden for "Striking" the Twin Towers down.... but in reality The US Gov't went to get the OPIUM.... WAKE UP.

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3213438_700b.jpg > 100 KB Edited March 10, 2012 by Max Power

[PELHAM 10]

So can anyone truly say that before they saw this youtube clip, or watched "machine gun preacher" (that touched upon this situation using Gerard Butler) acually knew this all went on or even knew who Jospeh Kony was?

I have known about this for 30 years. I first saw someone with no lips, ears and nose in 1979 begging in a street. Later I saw more and talked to them when I went back to africa to work in the 1990's. Most of them were victims of political violence by militias trained by Chinese and North Korean advisors in communist training camps in Tanzania, Uganda and Mozambique. The Soviet Union provided the weapons. Occasionally, I used to try to tell people about the organised corruption and extreme acts of violence but no one would believe it as it wasn't reported. One thing to understand is that you will not end this by getting rid of Kony or people like him. Much of it is cultural and linked to spiritual beliefs, mysticism and witchdoctors. Sounds ridiculous already doesn't it? It's perfectly true. Kony himself is an out of control spiritualist 'messenger of god'.

The abduction of children for use as child soldiers is well known. Children are also killed and maimed when suspected of being posessed by evil spirits. Witchdoctors also abduct children to use their body parts in spiritual medicine. They may also instruct other people to kill, use or eat the body parts of children or their enemies to cure suspected curses or possession by evil spirits. The aids epidemic prompted another instant cure from the 'spiritualist healers' - rape a virgin and you will be healed. The violence towards young girls across southern africa increased exponentially.

Apart from this the spiritualist has a deeper effect on politics in many areas as they tell people who to vote for and list the consequences if they don't. Bad things happen to people who step out of line. They are accused of being possessed and usualy end up dead. African politicians know this well and large amounts of cash change hands.

So killing Kony will do nothing. You need to educate people to break the cultural influence of so called 'spiritualist healers' and provide more effective peace keeping and political measures to control the organised political terror and corruption introduced in the 1960's. The well meaning western charities and celebs need to cut the amount of dishonesty and self promotion in their campaigns and start dealing with the real problems.

The peacemeal charity work has actually created more problems than it solved because it's uncoordinated. It's sounds really nice to prevent a million deaths from malaria but where will that extra million live? What will they eat? Where will they work and where will the 2 million children that they produce live, work and eat? Even worse, will that extra population growth occur in a certain region or people because there is easy access for the charity? Will that increase in population and needs allow them to dominate and subdue a weaker neighbour? The damage caused to Africa in the last 50 years by external influences is mind numbing.

[Dosenmais 10]

Here is a viral video telling about the horrible crimes against humanity that this man (the leader of the Lord's Resistance Army) has committed.

Well, i saw the Trailer a few Minutes ago and i thought "I bet on the bis forum already postet someone these fine pieces of Public Relations" and i was right.

But my very first thought was "Now it will be realy africa".

In the Film "Obama Deception" they forcastet the trend, that under the Obama Administration the US will enlarge his commitment on the african continent.

We saw Rebellions and Protests in North Africa, backed up by the state department and enforced with Al Quaida Mercs, and now they already looking for the New Hitler Figure to strike on.

Nice work. Go, look it up. Watch the Obama Deception for Free on Youtube and you can see it yourself. Obama will enlarge the US commitment in africa, this is what we are seeing now.

[dm 9]

under the Obama Administration the US will enlarge his commitment on the african continent...

Obama will enlarge the US commitment in africa, this is what we are seeing now.

Because he's black, right? :facepalm:

[-Snafu- 78]

Bush sent military aid to the nations fighting Kony's LRA during his Presidency and Obama upped that by sending in 100 US military advisers in October last year and of course there's AFRICOM that was established in 2006 to coordinate with African governments facing serious security problems.

So it's not like there's nothing been done. Whether this new widespread awareness of the LRA will reap benefits for the people affected is another question entirely. Time will tell I guess.

[Dosenmais 10]

Because he's black, right? :facepalm:

Very quick about the facepalm thing. Knowing so less?

First of all, he isn't "Black". His Mother was white, he could be also a white guy. Rapper KRS One said once, calling him black would be disrespectfull for his mother. She was raising him, the father run off.

Secound of all, his relationship within his family make some things more easier in this part of the world.

Barack Obama, Kenya, his cousin Odinga and Islamic jihad

Obama’s Cousin Odinga Clears Way to Presidency By Turning Opponents Over to International Court/

Didn't know that, don't you? Looks like Jihad will be the ruling ideology of our century. The last one it was socialism, this one Islam will wage wars around the old world.

thirdly, who else could sell the american public these wars as humanitarian aid? He invented in libya without congressional aproval which was an act of treason and nothing happend. He says openly he gets his autority by the United Nations and Nothing and nothing happend. They got an agent in office.

Feeling still so smart about this facepalm thing? Yeah right hide your face in shame....

[batto 17]

Kony is of course piece of shit and SEAL Team 6 should send him to hell. But thinking that children will return to parents after his death is too naive. Other ill pieces of shit on cocaine taking command is more likely IMO.

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3213438_700b.jpg

lol rofl lmfao

Edited March 9, 2012 by batto

[dm 9]

Very quick about the facepalm thing. Knowing so less?

lol

Didn't know that, don't you? Looks like Jihad will be the ruling ideology of our century.

The Islamic thing? Yeah, I knew that. Interesting that you think you know what I know...

The last one it was socialism, this one Islam will wage wars around the old world.

Probably, but then thats nothing really new now, is it...

Feeling still so smart about this facepalm thing? Yeah right hide your face in shame....

I feel smarter than you, thats for sure.

[krzychuzokecia 719]

I just love the "good versus bad" perspective that some guys here are still looking from...

So, you've just found out that there is a guy named Joseph Kony, and his killing innocent children in Africa? You think it's horrifying (because it is), and you think that's about time to do something to stop that killing spree? You think that supporting some "charity" is not enough, and Western governments should take some actions? Maybe they're already in action. But not how you'd like them to see...

Anybody here had read "The New Wars" ("Die neuen Kriege") by German professor Herfried Muenkler? It's really great work about world of "new wars" (Muenkler prefers this term), warlords and war entrepreneurs. Muenkler says that people like Kony wouldn't be able to lead so long and bloody wars without help from foreign superpowers (like USA, China, Russia/USSR, UK or even India, or Germany in Asia and Europe). That countries not only let such puppet dictators to fight, but are actively supporting them with money, or weapons, or both. Well, in world of African "new wars", Muenkler says, such payment can be done even in form of clothes or popular sunglasses!

Warlords like Kony, don't have enough means of production to continue their fights, so they had to have some big friend. Muenkler takes note that there are some countries who fight with such guys (his example is USA), but well, we know it's only half of reality. And Muenkler also knows that - in his work he puts emphasis on economical support from rich countries and their industry.

You think it's not true? And that at least Western world remembers about good and the bad, and meaning of those words? Unfortunately for you - our governments, just like Russian or Chinese, also support some crazy murderers. Remember Iran-Contras? Or Carter helping with setting up Saudi youths in Afghanistan to fight with USSR? After some years they were known as Al Queda. Or maybe something more recent: German

(link 2) and cars (link 2) in hands of world's worst regimes.

We're living in times when everyone wants to be "world's policeman". Because of that we need our own bad boys who'll fight against other policemen.

[Tonci87 163]

German weapons and equipment have a strong tradition of appearing in conflict zones with the german gouvernment claiming that they don´t have a single clue how they got there.....

Lets just agree that Kony is an evil bastard who deserves to be arrested or killed and that there are more Kony´s out there.

[Archamedes 10]

Very quick about the facepalm thing. Knowing so less?

First of all, he isn't "Black".

are you sure? if he isn't then thats one hell of an all year tan he's got going on there.

[PELHAM 10]

Muenkler says that people like Kony wouldn't be able to lead so long and bloody wars without help from foreign superpowers

Thankyou for reporting that but it's already known - if you had done your homework you would know that Kony was supported by the government of Sudan.

The president of Sudan is also wanted by the International Criminal Court for similar crimes in Darfur.

Edited March 10, 2012 by PELHAM

[max power 21]

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3213438_700b.jpg

sagitarius_2k

Using the spoiler tags to hide rule violations is not a valid strategy, unfortunately. The size limit for images is 100KB. If your image is over 100 KB, please just link to it.

After 62 posts you should be aware of these rules.

+1 warning for large images.

§15) Do not hotlink images over 100kb (102400 bytes) in size

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[Flash Thunder 10]

That comic is :roflcopter:

The only thing missing from the documentary was AMERICA FUCK YEAH!

[krzychuzokecia 719]

Thankyou for reporting that but it's already known - if you had done your homework you would know that Kony was supported by the government of Sudan.

Pelham - why so many negative emotions towards other interlocutors?

Have you done your homework? It's not about support from Sudan, which is another poor country. Muenkler's theory is all about rich countries: like US or Russia. You already said about China sending instructors to help Kony's forces.

But you (and Tonci) are also saying "we (the Western world) should do something to stop Kony". I agree with you, but I also know (and Muenkler's in-depth work points it out) that if any UN member would have any income from killing Kony, he'd be dead already. So, I conclude that for Western governments, Kony's crimes are not important, and they'll accept it. There'll be no "R6-alike" unit sent by UN to capture/kill that bastard, because killing him is probably unprofitable (or costs of such operation are bigger than income after Kony's death).

I'm just trying to say that your belief in Western morality is... naive, unfortunately for us and victims of Kony and other crazy warlords. But rumours about oil found in Uganda can now bring Western world attention on that part of the world - because oil's bubbling is always louder than screams of victims...

[Tonci87 163]

I´m not aive, I´m suggesting ways to improve such situations, but I know that it will never happen. Every country is just watching its own interests.

[kireta21 13]

That's the entire point of this video/campaign. To make Kony famous enough for someone important enough to kill him. And really, no one olther than 10 expects president to send Navy SEAL squad / MEU / airstrikes into hostile territory because he's a nice guy and want to clear world out of evil-doers. He'll do it only if there's good buisness in this either for him or for his country (so, indirectly, also fir him).

There will be presidential election in US in November, so timing isn't bad either.

[krzychuzokecia 719]

That's the entire point of this video/campaign. To make Kony famous enough for someone important enough to kill him.

Yup, but still "fame" (let's stay with this word) is not enough - Syria Bashar al-Assad is "famous" enough to get rid of him, but there's no profit for Western countries, the only effect will be having worse relations with Russia and China.

@Tonci:

I was commenting on your proposition of "UN special force" that'd strike when majority of members agree (as opposed to today's "one veto=no action"). Such system we have now, helps with sustaining kind of "international balance of power". Libya & Syria are great examples - no one cared about Gaddafi, so they bombed him, but when it comes to Assad, Russians say "hey! He's our guy, leave him alone", while Westerners can say "we are disgusted by Assad actions, but can't do anything because Russia and China voted against us". And everybody is satisfied now...

Back to general topic: I'm curious what are connections between this charity and Uganda gov't, because I heard that Kony is not active in this country for some time. That'd make helping Uganda government useless when it comes to fighting Kony.

[sagitarius_2k 10]

@Max Power

Sorry, it wont happen again

Yup, but still "fame" (let's stay with this word) is not enough - Syria Bashar al-Assad is "famous" enough to get rid of him, but there's no profit for Western countries, the only effect will be having worse relations with Russia and China.

@Tonci:

I was commenting on your proposition of "UN special force" that'd strike when majority of members agree (as opposed to today's "one veto=no action"). Such system we have now, helps with sustaining kind of "international balance of power". Libya & Syria are great examples - no one cared about Gaddafi, so they bombed him, but when it comes to Assad, Russians say "hey! He's our guy, leave him alone", while Westerners can say "we are disgusted by Assad actions, but can't do anything because Russia and China voted against us". And everybody is satisfied now...

Back to general topic: I'm curious what are connections between this charity and Uganda gov't, because I heard that Kony is not active in this country for some time. That'd make helping Uganda government useless when it comes to fighting Kony.

He is not in Uganda anymore

No auditing whatsoever from where Invisible Children get its funding

The reason why this KONY2012 now show up

[PELHAM 10]

@krzychuzokecia

Kony was supported by Sudan and thanks to their financial and millitary support he became very powerful. Thats a fact. Sudan is responsible for much of the mass murder in the region including Darfur and that is why the International Criminal court is after their president.

To understand why the US is very reluctant to get involved you have to look at recent history. The US attempted to solve a problem in Africa in 1993 and it went very wrong for them in Somalia. They would not have been interested in another more complex mission so soon after. So you can think it's all financial and quote Muenkler a dozen times over. The fact is, Clinton got his fingers burned in Somalia and did not have the political will to do anything further in Africa during his presidency and the following presidents had the same policy.

Seeing American bodies being dragged through the streets and mostly white soldiers mowing down poor black people does not make comfortable viewing back in the US, particularly for Democrats. They don't want a repeat of 1993.

I say Muenkler's theory applies more to African politicians and military leaders. They all know exactly where he is and he would be dead if they wanted it. Problem is they are all getting stinking rich from illegal mineral extraction and logging in the DRC. The instability caused by Kony and others keeps them in profits. I know this for a fact as I have seen how these guys operate with my own eyes.

Also, I am in no way saying the US should get more involved. It would be pointless. The African nations need to start sorting out their own problems. Kony is their problem not the Wests. The corruption in Africa is so endemic you never know who to trust and you can never know who has business interests on both sides of the conflict so trying to do the right thing never works out.

Edited March 11, 2012 by PELHAM

[Fox '09 14]

Put him in Gitmo for the rest of his natural life.

That's not too bad, there's free goverment run healthcare there. He'll have a great time talking to all of the innocent prisoners there as well.

[hellfire257 3]

Anyone familiar with Action Figure Therapy?

They summed up my opinion on this quite well.

P7NRCkxivwo