Why I haven't played ARMA 2

[Gezzer 1]

I love BF2 and wish BF3 had been more like the older title.

I've been told by a couple of friends quite awhile ago that ARMA 2 is BF2 on steroids. So when Steam had it on sale quite awhile ago I bought it and the expansion for my PC. I've yet to even start any of the single player missions.

Why?

Well I've tried to start playing it by learning the game threw the basic training missions. But so far I quit so early so many times because the UI and the tutorial suck b@lls.

For example I go to the firing range and after using the rifle I'm told to change to the side arm. But I'm not told how, and I finally did it after so many tries, but d@m if I know what I did. I even went into the controls menu, saw nothing in the switch weapon binding, bound a key and nothing would happen when I hit said key.

I go to do the first aid part and I keep getting told use the "action menu" but never what key opens it. I check in the key bindings and it's not even listed. So I right mouse click the corpse and I can drag him. Drop him and from that point on can't use the first aid on him, because no frigging "action menu"

Over all there's just more of the same. I understand the goal of the game is to be very deep and realistic. But do you have to make your UI so obtuse? The times I've tried to rebind some commands I see all sorts of weird key combos for even weirder commands. Yet what could be quite useful key binds like the number keys are bound for views. I mean WTF were you thinking when you designed your UI. I really don't want to go to night school for a month to understand how to use a game's UI, and ARMA 2 makes me feel like I should.

I really like the idea of what you've tried to make here. But unless you make your UI a lot more accessible in ARMA 3 I think you'll have the same niche market game that you've had with the previous titles in the series.

As it stands now I wish I could get my money back. But of course with software you can't.

[kremator 1065]

Would it not be better to ask for help here instead of slagging this game off? Once you learn what is required you will never play another child's shooter again.

[kireta21 13]

I know that you mean, basically I've heard this many, many times from people I've introduced to ArmA2.

Long story short, while making ArmA2 BIS forgot not all players are OFP vets.

Moreover indeed BIS turtorials suck balls. I remember it wasn't untill mission 21 of CWC when I realised game have ironsights! I took sniper rifle and though "how do I zoom this damn thing" and finally discovered "V" in controls menu...

ArmA2 keyboard layout. In OA there's also "PgUp" and "PgDn" for zeroing sights, and numpad "/" for swithing between types of sights (like between holo sight and a scope in L85).

This may help, best would be to print it.

UI is clunky but after time turn out to be practical. Managing anything bigger than a team like a squad, or even up to entire companies can be a hell if someone would try to use context menu. There's just too many options.

[tom3kb 15]

@up

First time I finished CWC without ironsights i found "V" key when i started cwc 2nd time :D

[G0nz0 1]

Gezzer-I know exactly what you're talking about. I also played alot of BF2 before going to Arma and OFP.

It IS painful to learn at first-I'll bet some people never get used to it-but if you stick with it, you will learn the UI, and here's the bottom line:

Once you do, go try and play BF2 and you will feel like you are playing Asteroids or something. Just the fact that you can't free look will drive you to turn the game off.

I learned the controls by setting up very simple missions in the editor-you know-player here, a few enemies over there with a waypoint headed toward your position. Then start incorporating vehicles. This way you aren't trying to deal with a pressure situation like a real scripted mission where you will just get frustrated. I found this to be a very easy, and fun way to learn the game.

Anyway-just my two cents-I wouldn't give up on it, you won't be sorry.

Edited December 25, 2011 by G0nz0

[W0lle 1052]

In your installation folder, there is one (or two) files called

ArmA 2_Manual_US.pdf

ARMA2OA_manual.pdf

Both of this manuals contain an introduction to the UI and default keys and were written for a reason.

Of course, one have to read through them - which today obviously is a problem for many people. :rolleyes:

So, there is absolutely no reason for your rant. And yes, being a simulator this all is a bit more complicated than the shooters you played before where you only need W A S D, fire and the bunnyhop keys. :)

[metalcraze 290]

I've been told by a couple of friends quite awhile ago that ARMA 2 is BF2 on steroids.

Sigh. Don't even have the power to rage at this anymore.

Well at least not as bad as "ArmA2 is a broken BF2" like certain people here tend to think.

I mean WTF were you thinking when you designed your UI. I really don't want to go to night school for a month to understand how to use a game's UI, and ARMA 2 makes me feel like I should.

Because you should. UI is the least complicated thing in the game. Also there's a manual. Why not read it?

Edited December 26, 2011 by metalcraze

[thinkr 10]

FACT: ARMA 2 Is unlike any GAME because its NOT A GAME ITS A MILTIARY SIMULATOR! end

Its not BATTLEFIELD 3, cause its SCOPE is 10,000 TIME LARGER, So don't expect to know everything from the start. You will be learning something new about arma2 for a while cause the learning curve is steep and there is REAL Strategy involved. And when i say strategy i don't mean "Oh no i shouldn't have reloaded there. BANG BANG RESPAWN!"

anyway you should really take your time learning this Simulator cause it will be a whole new level of game play. Multi-player = Teamwork not RAMBO. Take your time you will understand if your patient with it, there is alot to learn.

[ArmAriffic 10]

I really don't get why so many people have trouble with the controls, I got the hang of it in <1 hour

[celery 8]

Lol at people telling Arma 2 is not a game.

[BL1P 35]

I cant wait till the thread op tries to command a 20+ team in a warfare mission :)

That rant will be great fun to read

[76 0]

I really don't get why so many people have trouble with the controls, I got the hang of it in <1 hour

Because 98% of developers make UI's sheeple simple, and the ArmAverse is

rather complex and probably some other reasons... ... think about it... you

know.. in ya brain.....

1 hour?! it doesn't count if you came from one of their previous titles.... I

think the dude meant 'completely new' to the ArmAverse...

1 hr is either lie/exaggerated or you have prior knowledge from OFP/Armed

Assault/ArmA.

Somethings you understand and learn quickly and others you don't... I don't

expect you to be able to learn or do some things as well as I do and you

shouldn't expect people to pick up things as quick as you.

I mean I should be able to expect all you people know wtf your

governments are up to and that they are all pretty much controlled by the

worlds international bankstas for self interest at the expense of the worlds

people... but I don't...

The world would suck if we were all the same with the same mind-set and

knowledge base.

Lol at people telling Arma 2 is not a game.

hehe, +1

"I play a sim-u-lator"... toff toff nob nob

Love to all :)

Edited December 26, 2011 by 76

[ArmAriffic 10]

Because 98% of developers make UI's sheeple simple, and the ArmAverse is

rather complex and probably some other reasons... ... think about it... you

know.. in ya brain.....

1 hour?! it doesn't count if you came from one of their previous titles.... I

think the dude meant 'completely new' to the ArmAverse...

1 hr is either lie/exaggerated or you have prior knowledge from OFP/Armed

Assault/ArmA.

Somethings you understand and learn quickly and others you don't... I don't

expect you to be able to learn or do some things as well as I do and you

shouldn't expect people to pick up things as quick as you.

I mean I should be able to expect all you people know wtf your

governments are up to and that they are all pretty much controlled by the

worlds international bankstas for self interest at the expense of the worlds

people... but I don't...

The world would suck if we were all the same with the same mind-set and

knowledge base.

ArmA 2 was my first BIS game, I dunno maybe I learn just faster than most... :)

[igneous01 19]

I played arma 1 for maybe 8 hrs total gametime before getting arma 2, it took an hour to get used to the squad commands and movement - fairly used to these kinds of layouts for gui, coming from rts primarily where unitcards and hotkeys are used (total war series)

So while it would be nice to have a more intuitive gui (particularly on the scrolling action list) you cannot achieve the same level of simplicity as in bf3, considering bf3 only has 1/3 of the controls.

[msy 22]

Don't you guys know there is a book called guidance book?

For playing such serious games, spending minutes on reading instruction is a good idea for noobs.

Look at keyboard control for ARMA2, how many keys you can find rest for no-function?

even the win-app key has its function for high command system and some keyboards don't have this key. I think only win-start key has no use for arma2 because it is forbidden in arma2.

All in all, reading manual before playing arma2 is necessary for new players.

Edited December 26, 2011 by msy

[carlostex 38]

Reading the manual is essential when picking up a new game. End of story.

[Gezzer 1]

Wow. I heard that hardcore ArmA players were kind of @ssholes, and I see it's really true. lol. This isn't meant as a troll, more a response to your Fanboi posts.

First off, you really need to relax. My post was in no way a rant but an observation of an area that could use some work from a person who would love to play the game but can't because of an insane learning curve and broken tutorial.

First off as I said I bought it on steam, so no hard copy manual. Secondly anyone who says and I quote "Reading the manual is essential when picking up a new game. End of story" must be still playing games from the 90's. Many if not most current games come with little to no instruction using the game to teach the game mechanics. And lastly I wasn't putting down the game as a whole. Just the basic training. Which if it was meant to be a tutorial failed at it's job. That's the problem the tutorial which I guess is meant to bring a player to the point where they can actually hold their own in a mission doesn't do that.

On another note. You may not of thought about this, but if you defend something to the death without admitting any of it's shortcomings you simply come off as a zealot and an idiot. Which I'm afraid many of you do.

A perfect example is myself and AMD who I defended against all comers. At least until the i7-i5 generation. At that point even I had to admit that AMD was coming up short for the enthusiast community.

So I will add this final remark and then uninstall ArmA so you little Fanbois can play your precious game in peace. If you want the ArmA series to progress and develop a larger following you need to smarten the F@CK UP. Your going to be the reason that the developer pulls the plug on the series. Even a double A or single A title these days cost a chunk load of cash to develop. If a publisher can't see a reasonable return on investment guess what? They pull the plug. How many games do you think get green lit and then shelved because they start to look like a bad investment. I'd say at least 50% and in this current economy more like 75% plus. So if you want to wall off you little precious garden of a flawed masterpiece go ahead. Just don't go all ballistic when you find out ArmA 3 has been canceled.

Now THAT you MFs is a rant! Can you tell the difference?

[DieselJC 196]

I hadnt done any FPS games until I tried ARMA2..I always did race Sims..rfactor/GTR2 etc etc..I skipped through the basic training and jumped into an open and empty server and played around with the vehicles the weapons etc etc..I agree the controls and everything that go with it is quite steep compared to most "games"...but in the end..well worth it..minimal if any spawn or team killing..most people on servers want to work as a team and not lonewolf it..with ACE and ACRE it makes it even funner/harder to stay alive and complete tasks/objectives...once you get the hang of it...and you'll always learn something new by the way...you'll go try and play COD of BF and wont be able to un install those games fast enough..so my advice..take it for what its worth..jump into an empty server and start experimenting...

JC

[bars91 956]

A couple of valid points here tho:

1) GUI needs to be more infuitive/streamlined(NOT meaning simplyfied)

2)Tutorials in AA/A2/OA probably do suck(I dunno cuz I'm OFPfag since 2005=P -took about 30 minutes to learn most of whats-what in A2) judging by their setup and info distribution/presentation if compared to other games/simulators.

[metalcraze 290]

1. GUI is intuitive enough.

What's the problem with it? You have a simple straightforward action menu. You have commands put into their categories. What can you possibly streamline (which means simplify btw, what else?) here?

2. There's a manual. Period. Devs don't waste time writing manuals just for the sake of it.

If one has no patience to read a manual for ArmA (and it isn't a 200+ pages manual for some subsim, or worse - 700 page manual for the plane sim), which btw has a single-page default key bindings addendum - he will have no patience with anything in the game, including listening to his teamleader.

[Tankbuster 1747]

I was lucky enough, back in 2005, to have some friends who knew the game and spent a couple of hours holding my hand and while actually playing Flashpoint GOTY, taking me through the keyboard layout and basic tactics. We played a lot of Operation Authority, which at first caned us, but we soon mastered it.

Crucially, we learnt that it's best to NOT take an existing memorised keyboard layout that was for other games and adapt it to OpF, but to start again and try to adapt to the game's existing setup with a couple if minor changes. This works for me because I don't play that many other games and so, the muscle memory builds up quite quickly.

I managed to get used to the switch when page up/page down stopped being stance change and changed to zeroing adjust.

I can't help thinking that the OP, although he doesn't show the signs of an impatient kid (he punctuates, newlines and spell checks) he hasn't given this game a fair crack of the whip.

[PuFu 4600]

1. GUI is intuitive enough.

What's the problem with it? You have a simple straightforward action menu. You have commands put into their categories. What can you possibly streamline (which means simplify btw, what else?) here?

FPDR

....you really think there is nothing that can be done to improve the GUI? How about:

a) The firemodes need to have their own fireselector keybind

b) The grenades need to have their own individual keybind, instead of the current cycle through all grenades types, firemodes and all the other stuff you might have on you

c) The action menu is clunky, the actions are context sensitive and they don't stick in the same order each time. More so, actions like reload should be removed since there IS a keybind for it. The action list is anything but straight forward.

d) The icons that appear dead center of the screen needs to go away. Either move them to the side, or just remove them altogether.

e) there needs to be a stance indicator, in the same way as there is a minimal counter for the bullets/mags, that goes away in time. This is a game in the end, and there are moments where you don't know if you are in crouch position or standing

Now on the manual:

The manual needs to be a lot more complex and to cover more than the keybinds and other random stuff nobody cares about. The tutorials needs to be more indepth, with pops linking to the current and default keybinds.

Hell, ACE "manual" is more in depth than the one provided by BIS...

while you see it in a very narrow fashioned way (just they way you seem to be), and through the experience you had with other BIS titles, Bohemia is a running a business, selling games. They need to be able to sell those games to a wider audience, and they can do that only if they are able to remove the quirks from their product from the launch (1.60 is a good example, although things like ATOC and FXAA NEEDs to be UI based, and disabled by default = not everyone is a power user), and streamline the controls, the acion menu and the UI. (doesn't mean making all controls fit on a xbox controller, neither putting a lot of unneeded stuff on the screen like most other games do)

Edited December 26, 2011 by PuFu

[bars91 956]

^ What I wanted to say with my previous post ^

[BL1P 35]

I especially agree with the icons in your face part

I hate it when i try to take cover by a vehicle only to have some Icon pop into my field of view.

Or when you try to pie a doorway and get 2 giant triangles in your face

[160thSOAR 10]

I agree that the UI needs some improvements, and it should really be quite simple to do. Most people might disagree, but I think that a commo rose system could solve a lot of our problems.

I want the action menu to stay. Basically, I would like to see categories in the action menu instead of individual actions.

Here's an example. You're standing next to an AH-1Z, carrying an M60E4 and an M1911. When you use the action menu, you see the categories "AH-1Z Viper", "Weapons", and "Reload". If you choose the Viper category, a commo rose pops up with all of the options you would normally see related to that in the action menu. If you select "Weapons" you would see M1911 in hand, and so on.

The really amazing thing something like this could do would be to centralize the Squad Command system. If there was a single button you pressed to access every command, it would eliminate all of the complex finger acrobatics the game sometimes forces you to do. Basically there would be one button that would open up all of the AI commands. The context sensitive ones that you see by pressing space in ArmA2 would be in a circle around the center, with specific categories like Targeting arranged in a concentric circle around the first. Just like with the earlier action menu, clicking one of the categories would open up everything that you would see by pressing the respective number key today.

I was going to say more about the benefits of this, but I'm typing this on a phone and texting is not my strong point.