Is the Arma Communtiy getting too obsessed with legal issuse such as EULA's ?

[max power 21]

Reread whole topic :) This is not about polite, tolerance, helping each other to make game better. This is all about narcissism. Maybe I'm an idealist and I have hope in best in people. But here is no place for that :D

Please describe this narcissism.

Also, asking someone who has been contributing quite a lot to the thread by making clear and well explained points to 'reread whole topic' because you are too lazy to explain yourself is just asinine.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Max Power

[Pfhaota 11]

Reread whole topic :) This is not about polite, tolerance, helping each other to make game better. This is all about narcissism. Maybe I'm an idealist and I have hope in best in people. But here is no place for that :D

Oh, no. This is REALLY not about narcissism. Or if that was so, then every freeware tool is an act of narcissism. To not want to share EVERYTHING doesn't make a person a narcissist.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Pfhaota

[DAP 619]

Please describe this narcissism.

Also, asking someone who has been contributing quite a lot to the thread by making clear and well explained points to 'reread whole topic' because you are too lazy to explain yourself is just asinine.

Sorry, pal :) No personal :) But I don't want talk with another wall :) In this topic enough food for thought. And If you can understand my point of view, then it can say more than all words. If not, then no sense explain something. In my point this is community of owners, not community of friends. And most of addonmakers just "say": "My Kung-Fu better than yours." instead "Here guys, maybe it help you".

[max power 21]

Sorry, pal :) No personal :) But I don't want talk with another wall :) In this topic enough food for thought. And If you can understand my point of view, then it can say more than all words. If not, then no sense explain something. In my point this is community of owners, not community of friends. And most of addonmakers just "say": "My Kung-Fu better than yours." instead "Here guys, maybe it help you".

I can safely say that if you do not wish to explain your point of view, there is no possibility that I can understand it.

[DAP 619]

I can safely say that if you do not wish to explain your point of view, there can be no possibility that I can understand it.

In my point this is community of owners, not community of friends. And most of addonmakers just "say": "My Kung-Fu better than yours." instead "Here guys, maybe it help you".

:) Also I forget about one thing :) "If you don't like my rules - then leave it" :D

[PuFu 4591]

In my point this is community of owners, not community of friends. And most of addonmakers just "say": "My Kung-Fu better than yours." instead "Here guys, maybe it help you".

This couldn't been farther from truth. Everytime i needed help with something, all i had to do was fucking ASK for it. I could list here an endless number of ppl who were more than willing to help me out(thanks for that, you know who you are).

The fact that you don't see it in public doesn't mean is not happening. Hell, i have ppl who actually sent me their MLODs, or even their max files in order to get a better idea of how to do certain things.

Sticking your finger up the ass and saying: no one is helping me out (read no one is doing it for me) is not gonna work, here, at your workplace or anywhere else for that matter. You should know better by looking at the amounts of thanks in your stalker mod.

:) Also I forget about one thing :) "If you don't like my rules - then leave it" :D

And what is wrong with that? In the end it is their time, their skills and knowledge (yes that knowledge is gathered by asking other ppl as well, but it's besides the point).

Edited August 28, 2011 by PuFu

[max power 21]

:) Also I forget about one thing :) "If you don't like my rules - then leave it" :D

Repeating your same point over again is not an explanation. Do not be condescending. Your point that you think addon makers just say 'my kung fu is better than yours' needs support, because in my experience it is NOT TRUE AT ALL. There is an entire editing forum, a Q&A forum, a community maintained wiki, as well as OFPEC, ArmAstack, and devheaven, and other community websites, all designed with the exclusive objective to help out others, and all partly if not entirely administered by community people.

As for this last point quoted above, that is the reality of ownership.

[draakon 11]

@DAP, if you are so concerned about everything that is happening in here (not strictly speaking about PR, the community in general), why don't you post a few links or something so we can see what kind of content you have made? At this stage, you are just pure trolling, posting stuff that does not make sense, having limited knowledge about things and not backing up with proper facts.

So my only request is: If you dislike/hate something, then leave it at that and ignore it for your rest of life. Its that simple. Its for your own good health and money and time.

@Everyone else:

Is it that so bad that when a 1 guy or a team comes out with innovative ideas and decides to use restrictive EULA (it could be anyone, not only PR)? The way I see it, is that every day a mission or a addon gets released with the tear apart motto in mind for them. There is what, like at least 1000 mods and missions to choose from to play at the moment? So what if someone does somethink different? It does not give you the right to start bashing it to hell.

[PuFu 4591]

in my mind this thread could be summed up:

community spirit vs addon/mod creator rights

unfortunately, neither concept is easily defined, or have the same meaning for everyone around here.

[DAP 619]

This couldn't been farther from truth. Everytime i needed help with something, all i had to do was fucking ASK for it. I could list here an endless number of ppl who were more than willing to help me out(thanks for that, you know who you are).

The fact that you don't see it in public doesn't mean is not happening. Hell, i have ppl who actually sent me their MLODs, or even their max files in order to get a better idea of how to do certain things.

Sticking your finger up the ass and saying: no one is helping me out (read no one is doing it for me) is not gonna work, here, at your workplace or anywhere else for that matter. You should know better by looking at the amounts of thanks in your stalker mod.

I really was lucky with stalker mod :D Actually, I can't even say that this mod is mine :D This mod belong to Sumrak and Icewindo instead me :D But you are right :) Maybe that, what I said, is too general. But I got that impression. And I saw this before not once. Especially "this is my 2 pixels, give them back to me"

And what is wrong with that? In the end it is their time, their skills and knowledge (yes that knowledge is gathered by asking other ppl as well, but it's besides the point).

I can understand it for playing on server with some kind of rules (because this is for comfort/protection of players). But for addons? It's looks like.. For example: One man release his great pack of US Army units. And add EULA with restrictions: "For mission makers: I restrict create any mission where those units can be killed or wounded." What about this? :)

Edited August 28, 2011 by DAP

[draakon 11]

DAP, what you are trying to achive is pointless. Its their mods, its their rules. Just leave it there and go somewhere else. In the end, everyone is happy.

[hellfire257 3]

People? What i seen so far, that would be you, hellfire whatever and just few others that find ''that'' extremely arrogant.

Makes me wonder, aren't you the ones, who's really arrogant here?

You can edit your mission to any degree you like (arma),with pretty much exactly same units, yet should anybody release ''additional content'' you go all mad for not being permitted to do so publicaly becouse developer is trying to keep their latter/standard?

Look, I'm not going to tell you again. If you have a problem with me, let's take it to PM and see how you talk then. You didn't see me going around calling you, for example, a dumb idiot or a philistine did you? So why are you doing it ? We tried to have a civil discussion but we can't because people insist on abusing others about their opinions. It's a discussion, not a name calling session.

Bye.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Hellfire257

[coopr 10]

Look, I'm not going to tell you again. If you have a problem with me, let's take it to PM and see how you talk then.

comments like these should get you banned.. who the hell do you think you are?? some kind of arma2 god?

You are blaming others from abusing and not having a discussion.. and you post this kind of crap...:j:

@Bee8190 +1

[celery 8]

well, as I see. PvP is like COD or CS and TvT like BF

PvP means player versus player. TvT means team versus team. All TvT missions have players competing with each other (PvP), and all except for a few free-for-all PvP modes have teams fighting each other. The whole distinction is redundant and using CoD and BF as defining elements is weird.

[JdB 151]

in my mind this thread could be summed up:

community spirit vs addon/mod creator rights

unfortunately, neither concept is easily defined, or have the same meaning for everyone around here.

You're right in saying that it's not easy to define either term accurately due to the many different views of the community about the community, but there is one thing that's defined perfectly. The "community spirit" as put forward here is an assumed freedom that has supposedly been passed down over the years, a self-entitlement to a fair-use policy that does not exist, and never has either. There has been a lot of cooperation over the years, but the nature of cooperation implies that it's a two-way process, a dialog, which differs from what some people here make it out to be, to be able to use everything for "personal use" or learning despite what an EULA says, brushing it aside if it doesn't meet their expectation of "community spirit".

Addon/mod creator rights on the other hand are perfectly defined and enforced on these forums, as well as the largest community sites upholding very similar standards of dealing with creator rights. Anyone that shows content that is violating the EULA of the original author is dealt with. EULAs are expected to be respected. Obviously it is a lot harder if not impossible to enforce all aspects of an EULA globally, but if EULA violations do show up on various ArmA-related media, they are generally dealt with as good as possible in the shortest possible amount of time. That is the real community spirit. Those that create and those that enable distribution deciding on how property is handled, not the general public with it's widely varied interests and agendas.

[hellfire257 3]

comments like these should get you banned.. who the hell do you think you are?? some kind of arma2 god?

You are blaming others from abusing and not having a discussion.. and you post this kind of crap...:j:

@Bee8190 +1

Right, so I'm wrong for adhering to the forum rules?

Personal attacks and name calling are not allowed either on the forum or through PMs

FPDR

[BeerHunter 0]

To those who keep referring to the "restrictive" PR EULA are aware that you will be able to develop missions and content for PR aren't you? :bored:

[xeno 230]

Beerhunter, why don't you simply post the link to what you are refering to ?

http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f509-mini-updates-team/101980-15-community-modding-pr-arma2.html

It's the BIS forums, you are only "restricted" by the forum rules and those do not say you may not post links.

Xeno

[metalcraze 290]

Wow those PR guys are pretty stuck up

Needing to sign a license just to run a server with their mod?

Who do they think they are? Their mod is only a mod for AA2 and they act like they are in control of both of them. This is ridiculous. People like these shouldn't be supported ever.

Why won't they start charging money for it to come full circle?

[BeerHunter 0]

Wow those PR guys are pretty stuck up

Needing to sign a license just to run a server with their mod?

Who do they think they are? Their mod is only a mod for AA2 and they act like they are in control of both of them. This is ridiculous. People like these shouldn't be supported ever.

Why won't they start charging money for it to come full circle?

Didn't read and comprehend the post did you. :p

[Bee8190 10]

@Hellfire, You indeed did not call me names and neither did I as that would be unnecessary and I'd imagine too uncomfortable for both of as.No need for that.

What i was refering to (from recently locked thread) was an attitude and clear (to me) intention to disrespect the wishes and their voluntary work. (and literally any addon maker or modder) and unfortunately posts that followed I considered as unnecessary flaming or otherwise disrespectful in context whereas little information was given by PR team at the time.

I hope that this will help to clear the ''situation''

[craig.turner 10]

Wow those PR guys are pretty stuck up

Needing to sign a license just to run a server with their mod?

Who do they think they are? Their mod is only a mod for AA2 and they act like they are in control of both of them. This is ridiculous. People like these shouldn't be supported ever.

Why won't they start charging money for it to come full circle?

I see the debate has continued here now, such a shame as its not even a PR Thread.

Posts like this are why we had the PR thread locked, as it was not worth the hostility.

However to explain whilst people are talking about PR here

The whole reason for us going down this EULA route is because it actually "works" for PvP, and it ensures the players that want to play PR can - easily.

If we allowed our content to be ripped apart and used as a "free for all", within a month of release we will end up with servers running all manners of PR Variations ......... that puts the MP Scene exactly where it is now, with certain add ons required for certain servers - For PR that is what we do NOT want.

Please feel free to stay clear from the Mod, if you do not agree, its quite simple.

Many people have put down the Mod and are hostile to its team (Most of the PR Team are from the ARMA2 Community anyway - which is rather funny), but still waste their breath debating it ...... if your truly not interested why waste your breath with all this discussion?

If your interested this explains it further:

http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f509-mini-updates-team/101980-15-community-modding-pr-arma2.html#post1652908

Finally:

If you wish to continue these hostilities, please feel free to pm and deal with me and not send "threats" to members of the PR Team via pm's on these forums - which is becoming regular over here, I will happily accept your "threat pm's" rather than upsetting the team - who work hard, and do not deserve this. :(

UK_Force

.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Craig.Turner

[JdB 151]

UK_Force;2013084']Please feel free to stay clear from the Mod' date=' if you do not agree, its quite simple.

Many people have put down the Mod and are hostile to its team, but still waste their breath debating it ...... if your truly not interested why waste your breath with all this discussion?[/quote']

This sums up my thoughts exactly, and is the only course of action for people who do not agree with any creator's development decisions and/or philosophy.

UK_Force;2013084']If you wish to continue these hostilities' date=' please feel free to pm and deal with me and not send "threats" to members of the PR Team via pm's on these forums - which is becoming regular over here, I will happily accept your "threat pm's" rather than upsetting the team - who work hard, and do not deserve this. :([/quote']

I hope all of them are being reported to the moderators. Good riddance.

Don't mind the ungrateful people here. Most people are happy with any mod that is released that uses original content, or reworked with permission, even if it's not their personal taste, and they won't be playing it themselves. More people modding means more work being done, and more varying ideas being pursued. It's always the stubborn and ignorant vocal minority, including many of those that complained in your thread as well as this one, that tries to dominate addon threads with drama and bickering about something they have no control over.

Edited August 28, 2011 by JdB

[PuFu 4591]

how hard is it for some of you to follow a simple request, quite a few pages back:

The discussion about PR stops here and now as this is not about PR in general from what I can see.

We aso the flamebaiting and spamming right now. If you are not able to discuss the matter without that, then we gonna close this thread as we did with the other IP/EULA one some months back. :)

Some of us want to put some brains in our posts, and actually discuss the EULA and IP rights, without some well known brain dead jumping in and and writting offensive posts towards one developer or the other just because it's jazzy

[max power 21]

comments like these should get you banned.. who the hell do you think you are?? some kind of arma2 god?

You are blaming others from abusing and not having a discussion.. and you post this kind of crap...:j:

@Bee8190 +1

Actually, I think we would all appreciate it if this kind of personal attack BS was taken to PMs. Then I don't have to view your dirty laundry when I'm trying to have a serious discussion.

Some of us want to put some brains in our posts, and actually discuss the EULA and IP rights, without some well known brain dead jumping in and and writting offensive posts towards one developer or the other just because it's jazzy

Tenchars of +1