An appeal for help - show BIS what VON means to you

[dslyecxi 23]

I would like to make an appeal to the community for help. My intent is to make BIS aware of just how important the Voice-Over-Net (VON) component of the ArmA series is to the general multiplayer community - both in the paid and free versions of the games - and how much good can be done by fixing issues in it and further improving the quality, functionality, etc.

The Rationale

My rationale is simple - it is almost 2012, and the standard of voice comms in games is very high. There are many, many games you can choose to play where you have known-good, near-100% reliable communication with your teammates. There are likewise several quality apps available for use with these games - such as Teamspeak and Mumble. However, ArmA - which offers one of the most demanding experiences available in gaming today, one in which good communications are critical to success - continues to suffer from an aging, buggy VON implementation in the core game.

It is true that the ArmA community is fortunate enough to have community members dedicated to fixing the problem via the ACRE - Advanced Combat Radio Environment - mod, but it is likewise true that the core problem (quality comms) is in need of a BIS solution that works well without the need for addons, additional programs, et cetera. I do not want to make this topic about ACRE - I enjoy it when it works, and I applaud the efforts of the devs. It should remain an option for those who want to pursue it, and this topic is not about that. If you are a participant of a community that uses ACRE, I would urge you to help us out as well - you know the benefits of what a modern method like TS3 brings to voice comms, and the idea here is to bring that kind of communication quality to everyone in the community, without mod prerequisites, and seamlessly integrated into the core experience.

VON came into a usable state sometime in December-ish of 2007 in ArmA1. It has been nearly four years since that time, and while the rest of the gaming world has advanced in the realm of comms and platforms, ArmA/ArmA2/OA have not. The core concepts of VON - such as the direct-speaking channel - are fantastic, and it is a shame that they have the issues that they currently do.

How can you help?

So, how do we let BIS know that this is a very important feature, one which deserves a great deal of attention, and soon? Via DevHeaven, and the Community Issue Tracker, of course!

I have created four tickets which are the core current issues of the VON system, ones which if addressed would have the greatest impact on VON overall. I would greatly appreciate support in up-voting these tickets - I strongly believe that these are some of the most significant issues present in the series today, and would yield great payoff for any effort invested in them. A solid VON is a boon to all of us - it enriches the multiplayer experience, reduces frustration, and just generally helps us all to get the best gameplay possible in the series we're so fond of.

DevHeaven CIT Voting

If you do not already have a DevHeaven account, '>you can easily create one here.

Once you have an account and are logged in, simply visit each of these ticket pages and click the green 'up' arrow to vote it up. That's all it takes - with enough people supporting them, BIS will be able to clearly see just how much these issues mean to their most dedicated community members. We're at over 90 votes for each ticket currently - the more, the merrier!

Improve voice codec/quality/speed

Some people cannot hear others

(re)Introduce VON debugging tools for server admins

Direct VON fails over time

Thank you for your support in this,

dslyecxi

[kremator 1065]

+1 Dslyecxi ! Totally agree. There should be no need for us to have to go out to other VON programs like TS3, Mumble etc.

If it can't be fixed for Arma2 then it has to be for Arma3.

Will be voting for all four tickets anyway !

[kylania 568]

VON would have to match the features of ACRE for me to consider using it again really. But Upvoted those issues since improvement is always a great thing. :)

[dslyecxi 23]

VON would have to match the features of ACRE for me to consider using it again really. But Upvoted those issues since improvement is always a great thing. :)

The support is definitely appreciated. I understand where you (and likely many others) are coming from re: ACRE, and perhaps in the future BIS might see the appeal of that and work towards such a system in, say, ArmA3. The baseline work for such a thing rests in the above-mentioned tickets, though, so - one piece at a time, right? :)

[megagoth1702 252]

ABSOLUTELY agree on this! It is SO much easier to get into a group/team with someone and start talking right away, the people can explain stuff to you and things work out faster and easier, without having to use TS3 and other external applications.

ACRE shows how it can be done. Mumble is open source, maybe take a look at it, implement the source code into arma2 with their permission and work a bit with 3d positioning...?

Voted on all tickets.

[Beagle 684]

I don't think VON is of any importance anymore, if it was why is disabled on almost all servers I know about for half a year now.

I have to play with a bunch of silent Bobs all the time.

[dslyecxi 23]

I don't think VON is of any importance anymore, if it was why is disabled on almost all servers I know about for half a year now.

I have to play with a bunch of silent Bobs all the time.

This is a really backwards way to view things. If VON wasn't buggy and unreliable, it'd likely be used and loved more, thus... servers wouldn't have turned it off. Pretty logical, isn't it? The idea that "VON isn't important anymore" is rubbish.

[maddogx 13]

+1 to this. I can't vote the issues up right now but will when I get home. :)

I don't think VON is of any importance anymore, if it was why is disabled on almost all servers I know about for half a year now.

I have to play with a bunch of silent Bobs all the time.

Looks like a typical case of "nobody uses this, so why fix it?" ... well, the reason nobody uses it is because it needs fixing.

[kremator 1065]

Looks like the appeal is working. The tickets are at position 6 to 9 in popularity.

BIS should be able to notice.

Don't agree with Beagle at all! I use it on every server that allows it.

[HyperU2 11]

I finally got a mic. Arrow up.

[Dwarden 1125]

so let me repeat what i posted for some of the tickets

1st make sure You post what codec quality settings are used (or if it happens with all) on server

2nd the VON is using Speex codec, which is btw. very good for both latecy and quality and was used in earlier versions of Mumble and TeamSpeak 3

3rd the VON isn't there to compete with dedicated voice over network software like Mumble and TeamSpeak 3 which now use CELT codec

anyway this don't mean we will not try or not want to improve it :)

[dslyecxi 23]

1st make sure You post what codec quality settings are used (or if it happens with all) on server

Using codecs from 7-10 has no significant different with regards to the issues mentioned. I can't update that particular ticket for some reason, else I'd say so there.

2nd the VON is using Speex codec, which is btw. very good for both latecy and quality and was used in earlier versions of Mumble and TeamSpeak 3

I think you're making a comparison to TS2 voice quality. ArmA VON has been inferior to that since the start, and TS3 is a far superior set of codecs, with much lower latency.

3rd the VON isn't there to compete with dedicated voice over network software like Mumble and TeamSpeak 3 which now use CELT codec

Is VON looking to compete with modern games? If so, it needs improvement. It is pretty common to see games out now that have integrated VOIP that:

a) Works

b) Sounds good

[rangerpl 13]

Ah, +1 to this. I find that VON works more often than it doesn't, however there are those times when it's bugged for no reason.

It would be nice to have VON that "just works".

[paragraphic l 2]

3rd the VON isn't there to compete with dedicated voice over network software like Mumble and TeamSpeak 3 which now use CELT codec

anyway this don't mean we will not try or not want to improve it :)

Does this means that BIS imagined VON only to be used for vanilla users, while more expert users would switch to something like TS3 and Mumble?

[metalcraze 290]

I doubt BIS will be able to provide the same functionality as ACRE and TS3 in AA3

Besides why do you want them to reinvent the wheel? I'd rather see them dedicate those resources to improving AI and physics.

TS3 and ACRE are also being improved and updated constantly - BIS won't be able to catch up, it will be a waste of time.

[maddogx 13]

Besides why do you want them to reinvent the wheel? I'd rather see them dedicate those resources to improving AI and physics.

TS3 and ACRE are also being improved and updated constantly - BIS won't be able to catch up, it will be a waste of time.

This is probably correct, but at least the in-game VoN implementation should be made to work properly as it is. No need to add new functionality, just give us stable and functional in-game comms for public servers.

[dmarkwick 261]

Wasn't there some topic about the possibility of using Mumble in ArmA? An official topic, started by a dev/mod?

[maddogx 13]

Wasn't there some topic about the possibility of using Mumble in ArmA? An official topic, started by a dev/mod?

It was actually a poll, and I'm pretty sure the notion was recieved favorably. :)

[craig.turner 10]

I really agree with this too, a great thread.

.

[*LK1* 10]

I finally got a mic. Arrow up.

lol :rolleyes::D

big +1 for the thread starter.

[ginger mcale 11]

Same here. To talk in the very useful com channels would be much better/faster then to write it.

Btw some time ago there were posts/threads saying VON makes your server crash. Was this a rumor, wrong facts or was it right? If it was right, has it been fixed? Anyone knows something about it?

Thank you Dslyecxi!

[kremator 1065]

A vile rumour now, but perhaps in the past it was true, however, now I have never seen a server crash by people using VON.

[gossamersolid 155]

Ginger, I think that was a problem back in A2 1.04, afterwards I've never seen any issues with in-game von.

[MikkOwl 0]

+1.

The native VON is pretty nasty and completely inadequate for the rather extreme demands in ArmA 2.

Teamspeak 3 with ACRE is the most, amazing, immersion improver I have seen since TrackIR. So extremely cool. But hours, hours hours hours wasted on trying to just get it to work with everyone on a server.

I don't know about legal obstacles and resources much, but my current opinion is that BIS should make an agreement to bundle/integrate Teamspeak 3, with ACRE and its fantastic developer, into their products. Practically the codec and behavior can be left in the hands of Teamspeak & ACRE dev. BIS provides, and requires, a quality integration that works, is stable and requires no external things to be installed. A few more options in the audio settings menu: to use internal teamspeak&ACRE or external. Or not at all.

ACRE is so amazing that I am at a loss of words. It is like someone just invented headtracking and it was just waiting to be implemented into BIS sims. It is unthinkable to touch ArmA 2 without it. And it might be enough to prefer ArmA 2 over ArmA 3 if it was not available for some reason. But the hassle of it all is bad because it has made me not play much due to complexity of getting it working.

[noubernou 77]

Haha, thanks MikkOwl. :)