Steamworks, add it in or not?

[b00ce 160]

Have you even read some of the points made in this thread?

The vast majority being "Steam is bad, MMkay." or "I HATE STEAM CAUSE IT SUCKS AND IT IS DRM AND IT LOGS ALL OF YOUR ACTIONS AND KICKS YOUR DOG AND MAKES RUDE GESTURES AT GRAM GRAMS. "

I love steam, it's convenient and I don't need to swap discs. Adding Steam Works would be a mistake, though. It would undermine the communities' infrastructure.

[Minoza 11]

Well, this topic is about Steamworks, so I was referring to the (good) points already made about why Steamworks isn't a good option for Arma and why most of the people here don't want it.

[boredgunner 1]

Have you even read some of the points made in this thread?

Yes I looked at some. But I don't see Steam restricting any mod support - and if they add an ArmA 3 workshop (probably my top reason for wanting Steamworks integration), that will make it easier for people to get mods and update them (automatically updated). I've never had any problems with Steam auto-updating so that's great to have. Other than these points, all I saw were people stating that they simply want the choice whether or not to use Steam, and a bunch of people analyzing Steam's ToS which quite frankly seems completely irrelevant to me.

[jblackrupert 14]

Steam and Steamworks just adds another layer that can act up, just the BF3's requiring Origin and Battlelog.

ArmA 3 workshop, that will make it easier for people to get mods and update them (automatically updated)

Bohemia is already working on something with members of the community for Arma 3.

whatever they come up with when things go wrong or bugs are found we tell them

we don't have to go digging through steam forums and emailing Steam to get it fixed

which means waiting weeks or months to get some canned reply.

Myself and everyone I know in real life who have games that require Steam to run rarely play them because

we can't be bothered to deal with Steam issues that have been around for years.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Steam and Steamworks just adds another layer that can act up, just the BF3's requiring Origin and Battlelog.

Bohemia is already working on something with members of the community for Arma 3.

whatever they come up with when things go wrong or bugs are found we tell them

we don't have to go digging through steam forums and emailing Steam to get it fixed

which means waiting weeks or months to get some canned reply.

Myself and everyone I know in real life who have games that require Steam to run rarely play them because

we can't be bothered to deal with Steam issues that have been around for years.

I know this going to sound super cynical, but I'm seeing some still have trouble differentiating between steam and steam works as per the thread and wonder if the BIS /community solutions will ever be enough for those that need to see the 'steam' prefix.

[jblackrupert 14]

I know this going to sound super cynical, but I'm seeing some still have trouble differentiating between steam and steam works as per the thread and wonder if the BIS /community solutions will ever be enough for those that need to see the 'steam' prefix.

I think most of do know the difference. Many of us have used it and don't care for it.

The fact is it's still too much of an umbilical cord to third party services which BIS working with the community to do themselves.

with Arma 3 there is going to be a much tighter relationship with the community members who make tools for the game [notice the people with "Developer" avatars lately?]

Achievements, leaderboards....... That just doesn't belong in Arma. It leads to HACKERS, Stat padders... etc. Removing the leaderboard from the Battlefield series alone would like see a 90% drop in cheaters.

[NielsS 10]

I know this going to sound super cynical, but I'm seeing some still have trouble differentiating between steam and steam works as per the thread and wonder if the BIS /community solutions will ever be enough for those that need to see the 'steam' prefix.

It's not that we don't know the difference, but rather the fact that steamworks only comes in to play when all versions of a game requires steam to run like Skyrim and that is something that most of us don't want. I personally don't use steam because it is a form of DRM and while other DRM's get chastised by everybody, somehow steam doesn't wich i find odd.

[jblackrupert 14]

while other DRM's get chastised by everybody, somehow steam doesn't wich i find odd.

Because Gabe Newell has an extreme talent for making everyone else look like the bad guys while doing the same thing. He's the Steve Jobs of the videogame industry.

Steam sales also have a way of wiping peoples memories clean. When any bad press comes their way they just have a big sale or give some junk away for free and it goes away.

[NielsS 10]

Steam sales also have a way of wiping peoples memories clean. When any bad press comes their way they just have a big sale or give some junk away for free and it goes away.

But that's just it. As a digital distribution system it's not that bad, probably one of the better ones. A friend of mine swears by steam. Get's all his games on steam and says he gets good deals and the games are backed up witch is a nice feature. It's after the distribution part when the troubles begins and he won't hear the DRM bit, the banning bit and the problems with patches. Thankfully i was able to persuade him to not buy Arma 2 and OA through Steam. He got it at Sprocket and now we can play OA together with lot's of mods without problems.

[PuFu 4600]

yeah but the thread is NOT about STEAM, but STEAMWORKs....

[NielsS 10]

yeah but the thread is NOT about STEAM, but STEAMWORKs....

Yes, but you can't have steamworks without steam. You can't say i want to use steamworks without having to log on to steam when i want to play Arma 3. You need to take steam into account in this thread. Otherwise it's like saying "i want cheaper fuel but i don't have a car".

[Minoza 11]

I fail to understand your logic, thread is about whether people want Steamworks or not. Steam is taken into account the moment you suggest Steamworks, there is no need to discuss about Steam itself and how kewl it is (or not)...

[NielsS 10]

Well, after some searching i found out that i had misread Valve's explanation of Steamworks.

"A game including STEAMworks features means you MUST use STEAM in order to play the game", this sentence in particular got my alarm bells ringing and with the experience that Metro 2033 and Skyrim brought (being single player games but still having every version of those games requiring Steam) i voted no instantly. I did some digging and found out that that particular sentence only applies to the Steam version of the game and not to the versions that were procured through other distribution media.

Maybe this clarifies some things for people that confused Steamworks with having to have Steam installed to play Arma 3 even though they are planning to get at Sprocket for instance.

My final answer to the poll then is, as Steam is not and never will be installed on my PC i don't mind if Steam users want this implemented as long as it doesn't interfere with my non-Steam version of Arma 3. Apologies to everyone for being a bit ranty and voicing my opinion without having all the facts straight.

[hellfire257 3]

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

That's how I see it.

[boredgunner 1]

I just beg BIS to include an automatic mod downloader for ArmA 3. Steamworks for Steam workshop would be nice, but its easy to make do without it.

[metalcraze 290]

NielsS to have Steamworks it must be steam-exclusive.

That means even Sprocket version would have had to have Steam.

[Rebel44 10]

NielsS to have Steamworks it must be steam-exclusive.

That means even Sprocket version would have had to have Steam.

Not really, many games use Steamworks only for Steam version.

[PuFu 4600]

NielsS to have Steamworks it must be steam-exclusive.

That means even Sprocket version would have had to have Steam.

false

[metalcraze 290]

Steamworks means that its multiplayer stuff will be only steam-exclusive, while ArmA currently relies on Gamespy.

It's either that or that - without creating a rift in MP.

[NielsS 10]

NielsS to have Steamworks it must be steam-exclusive.

That means even Sprocket version would have had to have Steam.

That's what i thought at first but it turns out that this is not the case.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1712878

On the above site there is a list of games where a number of games only have steamworks on the steam version and not on the retail version.

Hope that this clears it up.

[arkhometha 1]

Quoting myself from the earlier Steam thread:

Quoting myself from the earlier Steam thread:

- A Steam account is a static immaterial investment that gains value but said value cannot be exchanged back to money except when sold whole, although Valve frowns upon that, too.

- As a rule Steam prices for new games is way, way too high especially considering the above point.

- Steam doesn't evoke trust as a platform for heavily moddable games.

- Some people want to keep physical copies of their favorite games out of sentiment or independence from needlessly authoritarian connection, software and consumer unfriendly term requirements.

- Regarding consumer unfriendliness, Steam has a no refunds policy no matter how cheated you feel.

Strangely enough that kind of consumer rights butchery is not evident in non-downloaded non-Steam games, i.e. you can sell the copy to someone else. Movies are someone's IP as well, yet you can sell any and all DVDs you might have because they don't require you to bind them to a personal online account for all eternity.

Any consumer who knows their rights will wipe their ass with terms and conditions that are shown only after the product is bought. Reselling a legal physical copy is not prohibited anywhere as far as I know, and Steam is enforcing its own made-up rules that limit the consumer's rights compared to a physical product and the rules are solely for the benefit of Valve and its clients at the expense of customers who would normally have every right to pass their copies on to others.

a Steam-activated boxed game is the worst kind of deal you can get. It usually doesn't have a manual, it's a slower and usually an even more expensive way to get a Steam game, and after forever binding the game to a single account, the box and the installation media becomes garbage because you can't sell it to anyone and you can install the game by downloading it.

I still don't get why some Steam fans want everyone else to buy their games on Steam whether they like it or not. The lack of empathy and perspective is frankly astounding.

Celery, I just registered to say this post made me your biggest fan and may I have you children, please?

Also, No steam. Make it optional, if BIS want.

[Agent587 1]

Hi, Well Steam is actually good for games, I bought Arma 2 hard copy since it was much cheaper, but Steam can also be pretty good especially at Xmas!

I play Arma 2 at times, but my PC usually has a heart-attack running it..

[SinoK 1]

YES please, add STEAMworks to ArmA III.

Why?!

- Is very convenient. Only one online time activation, no more DRM added, no limit activations or disc check.

- STEAMworks is NOT exclusive, you can still buy your game where you prefer (digital or retail).

- You don't need the disc anymore. The game is on your profile wherever you go.

- Achievements are always fun.

- Leaderboards

- Persistent identity: you can check plenty of your gamer stats

- Automatic background updates.

- Cloud saving

- STEAM Workshop would be the perfect solution to increase ArmA MODing community. One click and you already have the MOD subscribed and automaticaly downloading to the game.

- One click join. This is the best. Even yyou are not ingame, thanks to the standalone client you can check easily and fast if your friends are playing and join their match with just one click.

- No more accounts. Every PC gamer have already an STEAM account.

- Free Weekends: STEAM can run free weekends to encourage people to try the game. Best feature to increase game player base.

- Easy to check game's popularity thanks to public stats and through your friends list (you have information about how many of your friends have this game)

- STEAM Overlay is very comfortable to chat

I don't see any GOOD argument to NOt want it.

[dmarkwick 261]

I don't see any GOOD argument to NOt want it.

That happens when you don't read the thread :)

[jonneymendoza 10]

That happens when you don't read the thread :)

i've read the thread and still couldnt find a single good reason why not to use steamworks/steam for arma 3