Jagged Alliance

[max power 21]

I've been trying out Jagged Alliance. It's a game I missed when it first came out and one that a lot of people talk about with great nostalgia.

The game is very good and has some great touches. It has a lot of character, and a lot of care was taken to give each of the 60 mercenaries their own individual, cartoonishly extravagant personality. This works very well, and in an article I read, serves to defuse any false sense of realism in the game. The gameplay is also very rich. It is a squad level, turn based tactical game with a strategic 'map quadrant conquering' and resource management layer. It seems like the game world is persistent, so every door you open and every item you drop in any tactical quadrant stays as you left it. You also have an active strategic enemy who is sending mercenary squads of his own to take back the quadrants you conquer. Aside from the over arching goal of taking the island, you also have the odd quest you must perform to solidify your non-warfare related operations on the island- for example, taking control of the watershed because the badguys are poisoning it and making the natives sick. In this respect it is similar in concept to the last missions in Harvest Red, where you have a conquer the island scenario; a squad level fighting force under your direct control responsible for taking land and doing quests; and also a strategic army of locals who guard areas you have conquered, do the nuts and bolts work of sustaining your economy, and (in the case of ArmA 2), also attack.

There's a great variety of different gameplay elements in the tactical and strategic games. You can listen at doors before you bust in, disarm traps, pick locks. Once, one of my mercs was attacked by a water snake while trying to swim across some water and I needed to equip him with a knife quickly before he drowned. In the strategic game, it's not only a resource gathering exercise to maintain a budget, but also one of wise resource application, as mercs are not only used for fighting. They can stay at the base and do the work of a mechanic or a doctor, seeing to the maintenance/healing of your equipment and fighting force. So, the dilemma is how many mercs can you afford vs. how many guns you need in the field vs. how badly you need some stay-behind medical or maintenance help? Do you hire an expensive merc that can do field work AND stay back, or do you hire one that has terrible combat stats but is cheap and has good mechanical or medical skills?

I think it can be argued that the most important component of this game are the characters. Not only are they a stand-out feature of the game, but each merc is also very important. Mercs are not cheap and your ability to hire talent is very limited. Some Mercs won't work with others, some have discipline problems and won't listen sometimes, some have high standards for the kind of operation you run and won't be happy if you aren't succeeding at the top of your game, some will badmouth you if you fire them to other mercs so it makes it harder for you to hire extra help. One Mercenary even speaks no english so, while he's as talkative as the others, you have no idea what he's saying unless you know his language.

It's great to have such characters, but it's also makes the game somewhat difficult. It seems like, especially in the beginning (as I am), if one of your primary assaulters gets shot while the other is in the hospital, you may as well reload. I'm currently fighting areas with something like eight red shirts and I have four active mercenaries (with two others in the hospital), one of which is a superlative shot who pretty much carries the team. If he gets hit, all his stats take a dive, which really cripples my ability to fight. It seems like these Mercs are so important that if you have a string of bad luck, you may as well just reload your quick save. However, you can only quick save outside of combat. Recently I was bumped out of nowhere and my primary assault was very close to the enemy who appeared. He should have easily been able to put two in his toque and move on, but he misses a shot and the enemy survives. Now, the enemy merc pulls out his magic horseshoe and is able to shoot back while he's heavily wounded and hit my assaulter twice as he's kneeling behind cover. This necessitates a reload... however I'd been contesting that particular area for probably more than 1/2 hour. 1/2 hour down the toilet.

The game has several undocumented features that greatly reward player creativity. The player can 'merge' items using a mechanic to create new items, from straight-forward things like customizing firearms using special parts to illogically combining items to create crazy new tools and weapons.

In short, this game is an incredibly rich experience and was obviously very, very well thought out. The drawback is that the game seems to demand very high performance from the player and doesn't forgive any errors. Any bad luck like firing the wrong guy or having one merc in the wrong place at the wrong time can result in a much more difficult game- and currently I'm just sneaking by as it is!

You can buy it at http://www.gog.com

---------- Post added at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 AM ----------

Oh, and if you play it, or have played it, let me know what you think about the hillariously oversexed daughter character. I find her slightly disturbing. Her graphics are so over-dramatic that it looks like she's from another video game. In fact, in the opening scene where we are talking about murder and betrayal, one of her legs is so over rendered compared to the rest of the scene, especially her face, it looks like she's a collage of female body parts. So bizarre!

[4 IN 1 0]

If i remember correctly there is a "realistic" weapon mod for JA2 around, I am not at home so I cant find it for you through.

[max power 21]

I'm playing the original, not the sequel ^_^. AFAIK, there's all kinds of mods for JA2, with unofficial patches and all kinds of stuff. There is even a Jagged Alliance 2: Reloaded project that is supposed to rebuild the game. Everything but the core gameplay is supposed to be enhanced.

[4 IN 1 0]

Ah the first one:p

Yes, I do find that daughter are too over rendered

[Wolfrug 0]

Aw man. JA and JA2 are some of the best games made, period. Best for their genre, in any which case. JA is perhaps in that regard more tactical, seeing as you have to manage your villagers, guardsmen and various mini-quests throughout. In JA2 you only have to make sure your towns are fully stocked with militia, and that you're moving quickly and effectively towards the capital - although, on the other hand, the combat, tactical options, graphics and storyline are much better in JA2.

Generally, you'll want to avoid getting shot. Once you get shot, you have to get better. This ties up two mercs, one doctor, and the patient, often for several days, meaning you might not be able to attack. And if you're defending at this point, and you get another wounded, well - it can go to hell real fast. Which is why a lot of loading and saving is adviced. That said, playing through even a simple mission "ironman" style becomes pretty awesome pretty fast. Once your guys are hurt they start limping, bleeding, and their shooting goes to hell. Rescuing a downed comrade can become a whole mission in itself, applying that first aid while bullets are raining down around you...

Also, this is one of the few games where flanking and movement becomes paramount. In most modern games that require 'flanking', it's basically just a gimmick where you can't hurt the enemy from directly in front, and you have to move around the side to be able to attack them at all. In this game, however, you can tie up several enemies from a position of good cover, and then move up a flanker or two to the side and take the enemies out. In fact, this is what you'll -have- to do often to be able to get at those bastards.

It also handles the "leveling up" of weapons in an absolutely delicious way. The first time you come across a pump-action shotgun wielded by an enemy you basically go "oh shit". But once you're toting M14s and you have a few grenades in your pocket, you really begin to feel like an army. Quite delicious, as mentioned.

That said, it does have its problems. One is the isometric 2D view, which unfortunately doesn't always tell you what you want to know about cover. Is this bush here going to stop both my bullets going out, and the enemies' coming in, or is it going to act like it's not even there? And the ever-fun "why can't I hit that guy standing straight in the middle of the field with my sniper-rifle wielding elite guy, while he can hit me even though I'm behind a desk behind a window crouching?" But I guess the computer does need some help, since it's not always the cleverest of machines :)

Anyway - awesome series, really great. @MP: I suggest you try the Deadly Games expansion to JA too - it's just a series of missions instead of a proper strategic map campaign, but they're pretty clever and diverse. Also comes with a level editor!

We're still waiting for a real JA sequel though, just like we're still waiting for a proper X-Com sequel. Them Eastern Europeans have been trying (Brigade E5 et al.), on both games (UFO After(light/math/shock)), but so far no dice - although the latest UFO games are fun enough romps as they are.

Ah ah. Classics.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[sudayev 27]

Hey, I'm great fan of this game and always been with it since Deadly Games. Vanilla JA2 is quite bugged. I'd recommend playing JA2 with 1.13 upgrade http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=57518&page=1 By the way, this forum is a long time HQ for 1.13 project. You will find everything there.

This patch adds tons of new guns and easy to config files, so you can tweak everything up to your needs. really great stuff, there is a multiplayer implemented. Actually it's very steady, REALISTIC and all materials are very well balanced. Pushes the game into the new level. Highly recommended.

And I tell you what... maybe you haven't heard about it because all computer magazine editors are chewing Modern Warfare 10 and the flashy crap from gaming industry giants.

Fall of 2011 - Jagged Alliance: Back in Action. This game is a direct port of JA2 into the new 3d graphic environment. Made by small studio from Germany. Every aspect of this turn based game will be unchanged :D Bugs will be fixed I suppose ;) There are still decent developers in this world valuing the traditions. This is not Jagged Alliance 3. JA3 was prepared by Russians from Akella, but the whole project was a misfire.

http://www.bit-composer.com/www_en/game.aspx?gameid=72678c93-9aad-496f-9bdc-430408ad2055

On August, 20 2010, bit Composer Games announced Jagged Alliance 2: Reloaded, a full scale remake of Jagged Alliance 2. The goal of the remake is to improve the original game concept and improve visual weaknesses of the original, the remake will have all the content from the original Jagged Alliance 2 and all of its expansions as well as all of the voice acting and characters, the story will also remain unchanged.

Jagged Alliance 2: Reloaded will feature modern 3D graphics in a isometric perspective, the user interface will be completely redesigned and a new detailed tutorial that helps new players to learn how to play the game properly due to the game's 'complex set of rules' which includes a new controversial "Plan & Go" system which is designed to focus on real time combat and removes the turn based gameplay that the Jagged Alliance series is known for, it also removes the fog of war but allows players to easily plan out strategies and improves the flow of the missions to be less time consuming.

The developers estimate that the remake will take players around 70 hours to complete and the mercenaries will be easier to train, the remake is currently due to be released in late 2011.[34]

Ps. I'm pretty excited about upcoming Men of War: Vietnam

http://www.menofwargame.com/vietnam/

Edited February 7, 2011 by Sudayev

[sanctuary 19]

JA2 , especially with 1.13 that made it stable (and added much customisable features), is one of my all time favorite games.

Each time i decide to replay it, i always enjoy the tactical action tremendously, the more or less forced and sometime heavily stereotyped voices are actually amazing to give a personnality to each mercs, their interactions (as some of them are hating each other guts) are priceless and sometime really fun.

Even today, JA2 is simply unmatched in its genre. It's incredible how much Sir-Tech was able to achieve such a masterpiece that would easily stand the test of time.

Just talking about it made me want to launch another campaign in it :D

[Baraka 10]

Ah yes, absolutely great game.Very hard to win and unlimited fun!

I played JA2 more but both are real stars in the gaming sky.

If you fall in love with this gameplay, try the "UFO" games too.

They are not so detailed like the JA´s but have a big fun factor!

Sadly this kind of gamplay seems to be dead. I remember a few good tactical games in the "old time".Like Fallout 1+2, Burntime, Syndicate.

Golden days!

[wellenkrampf 4]

@Sanctuary:

That' s so true. Same here. :)

[froggyluv 2135]

Well I loved Xcom so............ after seeing this thread decided to buy JA2. I'll let ya know when I get a chance to dive into it.

[mr burns 131]

Ah yes, absolutely great game.Very hard to win and unlimited fun!

I played JA2 more but both are real stars in the gaming sky.

If you fall in love with this gameplay, try the "UFO" games too.

They are not so detailed like the JA´s but have a big fun factor!

Sadly this kind of gamplay seems to be dead. I remember a few good tactical games in the "old time".Like Fallout 1+2, Burntime, Syndicate.

Golden days!

X:Com :rolleyes: Little me hunting for aliens and building undersea bases even though i didn´t know what the heck i´m doing. Great fun nonetheless, more understandable than Panzer General and more challenging than Doom at it´s time, priceless experience.

"Old days" ftw ... stay gold ponyboy, stay gold! :)

[GRS 10]

Been playing JA2 for ages, fantastic game. Very frustrating and at times it feels like the game cheats, but its by far one of the best and most immersive games I've played.

Probably the best part about it is that it gives you a basic premise but lets you tell the story.

Edited February 10, 2011 by GRS

[sudayev 27]

Do you think would it be possible to recreate JA2 (characters, weapons, terrain, certain missions) in Arma/Ofp environment ? It would be a great mod, personally I did few missions based on Ja2 by using Arma1 Queens gambit. Arma1 main island was quite similar of what we had down in Arluco

[max power 21]

I think the largest amount of work would be creating map objects. I haven't played JA2, but I've seen videos. It seems JA 2 had quite a rich environment.

[icebreakr 3156]

Only thing that we would need for making a map like that would be modular houses that we can combine into complexes. I think a talented Mondkalb is one of rare community artists capable of doing something like that :)

[sudayev 27]

Oh yes buildings, but most of them where single floored with some complex floor plans (casino, palace, museum,army base in the wast or tixa prison). In sci-fi mode we had caverns with the creepy monsters as well.

[mr_centipede 31]

JA Back in Action demo is out... Anyone tried this yet? Looking at gamplay vids on youtube seems like a good game, on the tactical side of the game.. The strategic site havent seen/hear anything yet

[sparks50 0]

It plays very differently without the fog of war. Instead of setting your squad up to carefully cover all directions, you will send them ahead to take down the enemy. I don't know if you can turn the fog on like in the original, but for now it plays more like a puzzle-game than a tactical game.

[Deathstruck 375]

This whole game is castrated so much it's not even funny.

• I can overlook if it's not turn-based anymore.
  
• I can overlook the piss poor "portraits" and atrocious voice acting that seems to be done by the same 3 people.
  
• I can overlook the fact that Fog of War has been scrapped. Even though their reasoning was "it was not fun" which IMHO sounds dumb as hell.
  
• I can overlook that mercs are no longer beind paid "weekly", instead they are stuck with you forever and you can't even kick 'em out. Or that their personality or enviroment interactions are gone.
  

But what the fuck.

• But where is the IMP creation? BitComposer argues it's not included because of balance? Balance my ass.
  
• Why does every gun have only 1 attachment slot? Since when I can't mount a silencer AND a reflext sight on my MP5? JA2, game which is like 13 years old has 4(!!) slots.
  
• Why can't my mercs pull the trigger when the enemy grunt stands like 1 meter away from them? "Can't shoot, Ace" my ass. Funny thing is that the very same enemy IS able to shoot.
  
• Why are explosions usable only at pre-defined spots?
  
• Why can't we train militias anymore? Instead we just give some weapons or armor to a bunch of fools and they still remain useless, especially in auto-resolve. Doesn't matter if they have a broken .38 or are fully pimped out in a Spectra armor with SCAR. They ALWAYS get their asses kicked unless you are there. Might as well give them axes and those redneck shirts.
  Also, is it just me, or do they remain at Level 1 and never improve?
  
• Where is the soddin' map inventory?
  
• What's going on with the ammo? You can no longer “preload†the weapons. Every time a merc swaps to another weapon he has to reload it.
  
• Who the hell designed that atrocious interface?
  
• Where are the vehicles? mortars? Bloodcats? From a game relased in 2012 I would at least expect this kind of stuff.
  
• 
  

I thought this was a 2012 remake. Not a 1990 downgrade.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Salvatore_Lee

[Serclaes 0]

While I like the real time with pause system, it's sad they removed the fog of war. This reduces tactics to "get the guy with the longest range to shoot and wait for the rest to come".

Generally a lot of complexity has been taken out of the game. I dislike that very much. Militia isn't trained anymore, you have to manually hand them weapons. Mercs aren't bought on a time basis but for the whole game (it seems). You can't train them or have them repair stuff anymore from the strategic screen. Also it seems you can't have a helicopter anymore :(

I like what they did to the strategic screen tho. Good system with great flexibility but the overall game world seems reduced. The overall flair of the maps is pretty good tho.

Played the game for a few hours now. While it has it's shortcomings and isn't really JA2, I enjoy(ed) it. Just don't expect the same complexity as JA2.

---------- Post added at 12:17 ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 ----------

But where is the IMP creation? BitComposer argues it's not included because of balance? Balance my ass.

Oh i forgot about that but yeah, that i missed too. Was very funny picking your character based on those weird questions. :D

[mr_centipede 31]

Wow.... they seems to only concentrate on the tactical side of the game and scrap almost everything on the strategic aspect of the game... Downloading the demo now... does the demo have strategic element or just the tactical level?

oh about the IMP, I guess I can no longer hung the purple dinosaur, shot and run over by a buick eh?

[metalcraze 290]

Calling it a "tactical" side is real stretch, bro.

It's just another rape-surrection of another cult-classic franchise to sell to next-gen kids, who can't be arsed to play the game and care only about the game allowing them to WIN all the time, as often as possible. So gotta dumb it down hard. And because if it wasn't called JA people wouldn't have even noticed it.

Hopefully it fails to sell.

People who are interested in this kind of game should play Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm (if they haven't done so yet)

Edited February 12, 2012 by metalcraze

[mr_centipede 31]

What is silent storm? care to give a link?

[mr burns 131]

Tried the demo, absence of Action Points makes it totally not stand out.

Roughly 10 minutes i managed to hold out in the demo felt more like a downgraded version of Soldiers Heroes of WW2 than a JA game.

PS: No MP! :(

Fingers x´ed for new XCom!

[sanctuary 19]

Even JA2 has MP thanks to the work of the brillant 1.13 coders !

Ah i did it again, i just read about JA2 and mentionned it and it made me want to play it again.