North Korea shells the South, South retaliates

[celery 8]

I'm not sure what you're point is.

My point is that North Korea's capabilities are often grossly exaggerated, leading to doomsday scenarios such as that of Seoul being kept hostage, with every artillery piece being aimed at it and them being able to grind the city into a glass crater in moments. It is both impossible for the overwhelming majority of NK's artillery from within the present borders of the nation (and getting into range is no mean feat thanks to the wide Imjin river) and stupid in a tactical and strategic sense.

The AAA assets and artillery are not easy targets either. The author of that thread you linked also details AAA positions, of which there are a hell of a lot, and these would need to be suppressed or destroyed before taking action against other fortified positions which are not very easy to destroy.

You forget that the AAA is near obsolete against any kind of modern jet airplane. They might be able to keep a Mustang and B-17 raid in check but not F-18s and F-16s that can easily do wild weasel missions on most of the AA units.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Celery

[nodunit 397]

I think the south has access to M270's so they can likely pose just as viable a thread to the north if not a bit more with their own arsenal.

[mattxr 9]

id just nuke the bastards wipe em off the map then see what they can do about it ^^ make sure that just after the nukes detonate there is an aerial strike force in place to take out any counter missile silos ... best time to nuke? when they do a huge military parade with loads of their forces and leaders watching so you know they will be wiped out

[-Snafu- 78]

My point is that North Korea's capabilities are often grossly exaggerated, leading to doomsday scenarios such as that of Seoul being kept hostage, with every artillery piece being aimed at it and them being able to grind the city into a glass crater in moments. It is both impossible for the overwhelming majority of NK's artillery from within the present borders of the nation (and getting into range is no mean feat thanks to the wide Imjin river) and stupid in a tactical and strategic sense.

Nobody is saying anything about doomsday but that the North has the ability to inflict heavy casualties against the South in terms of lives and property damage. The US and South Korean governments (see report I posted earlier) believe this to be highly likely as well as military experts and defence think tanks. In addition to military targets and other close urban centres 5,000 artillery shells are estimated by the US military to hit the SK capital within 24 hours of hostilities. That's quite a lot. You forget that it's not just Seoul that is of concern but the whole of South Korea. Millions of soldiers, civilians and foreign troops, will die.

You paint a potential war as some sort of cake walk. The South Korean government obviously disagrees, otherwise they would issue harsher responses to these provocations. They are quite rightly concerned with the death and destruction that would be inflicted upon their country in the event of a war.

You forget that the AAA is near obsolete against any kind of modern jet airplane. They might be able to keep a Mustang and B-17 raid in check but not F-18s and F-16s that can easily do wild weasel missions on most of the AA units.

The AAA systems are obviously not state of the art. I'm not saying they can wipe an allied air force out of the sky but they do need to be destroyed. There are hundreds, probably thousands, of these sites and they have the ability to put a lot into the air. It would probably require hundreds of strikes to degrade AAA capability. This will eat up a lot of available assets and time. As USAF Col. Steven R. Prebeck (promoted since he wrote it) states in his report on a possible strike on North Korea:

'Along with their fighter force, the North Koreans have an elaborate AAA and surface-to-air missile (SAM) capability, although it is mostly concentrated on their southern border...Any other option requires a sustained campaign involving the removal of air defenses.'

'Considering the uncertainty introduced by providing warning and including North Korean air defenses, the target base increases tremendously...Finally, air defenses would have to be destroyed to ensure freedom of access to targets.'

This would require a lengthy build up of air assets which is problematic if NK should launch a 'surprise' attack which it may have the ability to do considering the amount of units stationed at the border. The bulk of US airpower would not be in theatre during the crucial early stages of such a conflict.

Preventive Attack in the 1990s?

STEVEN R. PREBECK, MAJOR, USAF

School of Advanced Airpower Studies

http://www.comw.org/qdr/fulltext/9305prebeck.pdf

Back to the main point. A war wouldn't be easy, it would see millions of casualties and cost billions.

I think the south has access to M270's so they can likely pose just as viable a thread to the north if not a bit more with their own arsenal.

I'm not saying that SK would be a push over, far from it, both sides would suffer greatly in a war. Both armies possess the ability to inflict a great deal of damage upon each other. Underestimating this ability is, IMHO, dangerous. Thankfully, US and SK generals and politicians agree that a conflict would be a bloody mess and not something like Desert Storm.

id just nuke the bastards wipe em off the map then see what they can do about it ^^ make sure that just after the nukes detonate there is an aerial strike force in place to take out any counter missile silos ... best time to nuke? when they do a huge military parade with loads of their forces and leaders watching so you know they will be wiped out

In the 1950s and 1960s US generals and politicians discussed the possible use of nuclear weapons in local conflicts. There are good reasons they never resorted to such potentially catastrophic measures.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Snafu

[Simon C 0]

id just nuke the bastards wipe em off the map then see what they can do about it ^^ make sure that just after the nukes detonate there is an aerial strike force in place to take out any counter missile silos ... best time to nuke? when they do a huge military parade with loads of their forces and leaders watching so you know they will be wiped out

Yeah, because that wouldn't irradiate parts (if not most) of South Korea and China at all now would it? :rolleyes:

Not to mention the fact that other world superpowers may get just a little twitchy after watching a whole country get turned into a radiation-blasted wasteland. If all it takes to level a country with nukes is a sunken ship and a few artillery rounds, then people are going to start to wonder just how little provocation it takes to push the big red button.

[Leopardi 0]

Yeah, because that wouldn't irradiate parts (if not most) of South Korea and China at all now would it? :rolleyes:

Not to mention the fact that other world superpowers may get just a little twitchy after watching a whole country get turned into a radiation-blasted wasteland. If all it takes to level a country with nukes is a sunken ship and a few artillery rounds, then people are going to start to wonder just how little provocation it takes to push the big red button.

just drop some MOAB's instead then

[Binkowski 26]

woke up this morning to WWIII and eggs, thanks north korea!

[Rovka 14]

If you see the flash, it's already too late.. That was actual back then, and actually never went too far away from becoming so in past and future headlines ever since the Cold War has formally ended! It's war the Dark powers want, and war they make sure they'll get. Truth to be said: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely for sure... All of us are set up against one another, only to be as expendable like cockroaches exteriminated en-masse.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Thani '82

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Whatever happens, it's been a quite lively game of brinksmanship.

[Tonci87 163]

I doubt that there will be war (at least if the north doesn't start it) The SK and the US are propably waiting untill that Fat dictator bastard dies. His son will then have to take over and he will screw everything up for sure. maybe there will be a revolution or something like that. The Problem would be solved without a war

[ProfTournesol 956]

woke up this morning to WWIII and eggs, thanks north korea!

I've never eaten North korean eggs :D

[Rovka 14]

I doubt that there will be war (at least if the north doesn't start it) The SK and the US are propably waiting untill that Fat dictator bastard dies. His son will then have to take over and he will screw everything up for sure. maybe there will be a revolution or something like that. The Problem would be solved without a war

I hope you're right Tonci87, but only time will tell.

If those people wish to unleash a big fight so badly; Let them play Arma-2 and victor gets what they had bargained for.. Right? That way it certainly does save alot of innocent lives!

With every life lost, knowledge is lost aswell, and perhaps knowledge to finally solve the problem that real life wars are.. Wars should be depicted on paints in museums, hanging on the wall, like a relic of how it once was in ancient times like ours today.. And not make the daily headlines anymore, just being played on TV archives dug up from the past.. I'm probably daydreaming though, yet still I may wish for it all I want.

Rest assured, I to do not long for war at all!

[Laqueesha 474]

North Korea's accidently the trigger.

O hai guise! I accidentally the whole artillery piece. Is this dangerous?

At least he has the ability to think about things for more than 5 minutes before acting which is a real improvement over his predecessor

I blame Bush.

[snoops_213 75]

I've never eaten North korean eggs :D

i don't think most of them over there have either

O hai guise! I accidentally the whole artillery piece. Is this dangerous?

I blame Bush.

and there you have it, it all comes back to the bush

Edited November 24, 2010 by snoops_213

[Baff1 0]

I doubt that there will be war (at least if the north doesn't start it) The SK and the US are propably waiting untill that Fat dictator bastard dies. His son will then have to take over and he will screw everything up for sure. maybe there will be a revolution or something like that. The Problem would be solved without a war

#

Revolution!

LMAO.

It's not just their leader who is batshit mad. They all are.

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

And what a suprise NK claim they didn't fire first...

What a surprise, the South claim the same.

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 PM ----------

6000 + of those if I remember correctly :( plus the ones that are hidden and no one knows about .

13,000 according to U.S. General Walker Sharp.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

The antiquated air force, AA and artillery are easy prey for air assaults and satellites, and carrying out the Seoul bombardment with the few artillery pieces that can do it after the bluff is called will only further worsen North Korea's military (using assets on non-military targets) and political (deliberately killing civilians) situation. Don't doubt for a second that the known artillery hardpoints within any kind of range will be the first targets of South Korea's military.

NK has the largest artillery collection in the world. They can all do it. They don't give a monkies about the political consequences either. Thety are a pariah state already. They can't get any politically worse off than they are already without China and Russia surrendering to the U.S.

No it's not easy prey. It would take months and months to destroy all that artillery from the air, just because of the numbers alone.

Quite aside that they are all buried into defences and hardpoints.

But it would only take them hours and days to flatten Seoul.

[Big Mac 19]

and there you have it, it all comes back to the bush

How does it all come back to him? He's not POTUS anymore, Obama is and he has been for nearly 2 years. You can't blame everything on Bush anymore.. The more Obama lets this kinda thing slide the more brazen the attacks will get until they figure out whats really going on and they just invade. Edited November 24, 2010 by Big Mac

[ryguy 10]

Here's a new report on the capabilities of NK military:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/24/north.korea.capability/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

[Death Knell 10]

Just an idea, slowly and stealthly evacuate seouls populace and then bomb the crap out of NK so that when they retaliate and fire on seoul casualties can be kept to a minimum, then proceed to take NK out.

[Simon C 0]

Just an idea, slowly and stealthly evacuate seouls populace and then bomb the crap out of NK so that when they retaliate and fire on seoul casualties can be kept to a minimum, then proceed to take NK out.

All very good and well, but I can see 2 minor problems with this:

1) Not exactly a good idea to just start bombing a country until it does something of a big enough scale to warrant it, that's generally called overkill and is often frowned upon.

2) I'm not sure South Korea would enjoy having to rebuild their whole capital city from the piles of rubble that would be left... It's like, you know, their capital city and stuff. Kind of important place.

[STALKERGB 6]

"We gotta stand by our North Korean Allies!"

YEah good one Sarah Palin! lol

EPIC FAIL Audio near bottom

[commander jao 10]

what is everyone's opinions on the 'wests' reaction?

too strong or too weak?

unfortunately i think there is no such thing as a measured response to NK.:( I would personally instead of putting the aircraft carrier of the coast of Korea i place within a day or half a days range.

also personally expecting the PRC to rein in NK is like expecting someone to control the criminally insane.

anyway those are my thoughts.:D

I hope its not to much flame:o

what are your opinions?

[Tonci87 163]

I think its good that the carrier arrived there, it shows the people of south korea that they are not alone, and it shows the north that they better not fire any more grenades as long as this ship is there. On the other hand the north might see this as provocation (they´ll do this anyway) but it will also intimidate them. They know that a carrier group could do some significant damage to them

[ProfTournesol 956]

"We gotta stand by our North Korean Allies!"

YEah good one Sarah Palin! lol

EPIC FAIL Audio near bottom

She doesn't even know where Asia is on the map :cool:

[Big Mac 19]

"We gotta stand by our North Korean Allies!"

YEah good one Sarah Palin! lol

EPIC FAIL Audio near bottom

Lets hear it for Pailin Failin!!! Shes an idiot, I still don't know why the media keeps giving her attention. Edited November 25, 2010 by Big Mac

[KEVINMGXP 20]

hmmmm, history will repeat again if not on Korea soil then it will be else where, the world is on a big scale of financial disorder whole over the globe, people are not happy anymore on a mass scale!!

leaders dont learn! they will never learn, i'm not for any kind of war anywhere but sometimes, lives will be lost blood will be poured into the earth where we breath on, but in the event of a war where life will perishe in to nothing the ones that lives the war will cherische life.