ASR AI Skills

[HFTB 1]

can anyone advise as to what the optimum game difficulty settings are for use with ASR AI?

edit: finally found robalo's recommendations right after i posted to ask, after 15 minutes of clicking through the thread. disregard.

[maturin 12]

Am I correct in assuming that ASR is behind the behavior of infantry running away from tanks when they have no AT?

If so, I have some constructive criticism. If there is an infantry squad that has a single disposable light AT launcher (incapable of destroying an MBT), the squad will lie down and hold its ground even after the only rocket has been expended, leaving them all defenseless.

[harkkam08 10]

Having some trouble using ASR and TPW and TPWC, vs Zeus.

When I play with ASR, when I come under fire, all my units get frozen and stop listening to my commands. I tell them to move 50m and get out of the line of fire but they dont.

The enemy Ai will just lay down in the middle of the street and shoot back even though its the worst place for the AI to stop.

I tried Zeus and my team always listens to me even when under fire, and the Enemy AI never waits in the middle of the street they run away looking for cover and try to flank you.

I'm running ACE as well. I'm not seeing the results of this mod and I am confused maybe I'm doing something wrong. But I'd like to make ASR work because it has all these new features

[Tonci87 163]

First: Forget Zeus. It´s completely out of date.

second: Post your Mod load order

[^Th0mas^ 10]

Why are people using Zeus along with ASR AI? Zeus is totally outdated and is no longer in development. It hasnt been in development for a long time, so both ArmA 2 patching and ASR AI is far better at this point.

But another subject:

How does ASR AI mix into the newest ArmA 2 beta patch with all the new AI patching?

[metalcraze 290]

New betas did only pathfinding / cover finding improvements and ASR AI doesn't mess with that. So it's fine.

However Zeus does.

Because it wasn't updated since when ArmA2 OA was still 1.57 there are 2 major issues with it (among smaller ones):

- When AI spots the enemy instead of shooting him he will rush for cover. Yes even if the enemy is 5m away and taking him out is as easy as pressing fire.

- The cover finding is inferior to what we have in the current beta

Using Zeus is not advised.

Edited November 9, 2012 by metalcraze

[roni 11]

I highly recommend ChrisB's AI .pbos mix with ASR AI and newest beta patch, totally awesome experience, very long, realistic firefights(ammo is often problem) and AI is very effective in cqb now.

All fps-thief in asr mod is ai rearming, if you disable it, you won't notice any performance drop caused by asr mod, glad to know this! :D

[seba1976 98]

I highly recommend ChrisB's AI .pbos mix

Link?

[kawa 14]

Note: I'm keeping this post up-to date so it's valid with latest version of the game and the ASR AI mod.

(...)

For MP, there are reasons to believe that if you're playing on the RED side, against BLUE AI, you must set up the "Friendly" same as "Enemy" here. For example:

        skillFriendly=0.7;
       skillEnemy=0.7;
       precisionFriendly=0.5;
       precisionEnemy=0.5;

Robalo, is 0.7 the value you actually do recommend for MP or was it just a wild example? The server I'm on is actually quite good so I'm not much concerned about CPU usage, more I am about AI becoming not as sharp with 0.7 instead of 1.

Alternatively, what do you think about 0.89999998, as was recommended with Zeus AI?

As as side note, asking it here since there seems to be several knowledgeable people around, a mate is complaining that he's lagging like a mad whenever there are several AI on the mission. Is this a placebo case or is a client really affected by amount of AI (not talking about user controlled AI here)?

Thanks for any help you could provide on both questions.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Kawa

[seba1976 98]

Robalo, is 0.7 the value you actually do recommend for MP or was it just a wild example? The server I'm on is actually quite good so I'm not much concerned about CPU usage, more I am about AI becoming not as sharp with 0.7 instead of 1.

Alternatively, what do you think about 0.89999998, as was recommended with Zeus AI?

It's like FLAC vs. MP3 debates. If blind tests were conducted here, with different levels of AI skill settings, I'm pretty sure most players would mistake high for lows and viceversa. Meaning unless you're actually tracking AI behaviour, it is difficult to tell what the settings actually are while you're playing. And the solution is the same as it is for the FLAC vs. MP3 case: use FLAC to be sure, even if you can't tell the difference, knowing that you're probably loosing something will haunt at night :). Ergo, use high levels of AI skill settings, but be aware you could be easily fooled in a blind test anytime.

As as side note, asking it here since there seems to be several knowledgeable people around, a mate is complaining that he's lagging like a mad whenever there are several AI on the mission. Is this a placebo case or is a client really affected by amount of AI (not talking about user controlled AI here)?

Thanks for any help you could provide on both questions.

The server has to send information to clients about every unit and object there are in a mission. More units, more traffic. If that traffic is big enough, you'll hit the client's bandwitdh barrier and sync problems will appear. So yes, the more units, the more problems for synchronization (because of bandwitdh, as oppose to CPU when the same AI count is local.)

[roni 11]

Link?

Sure, but there is no single thread for it, so there you have posts, where you can find very usefull info, enjoy -

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?136304-TPWC-AI-suppression-system&p=2221224&viewfull=1#post2221224 - on the bottom of thread you can see post with complete list

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?133738-AI-Improvement&p=2222953&viewfull=1#post2222953

I hope, Chris won't be angry at me for linking this :D

Edited November 10, 2012 by Roni

[metalcraze 290]

That's quite a bad mix. He's using both Zeus and SLX - and Zeus is essentially a modified SLX. So he has duplicates of the same - and mind you - outdated scripts. That will mess things up.

ASR AI with TPW LOS and TPW Suppression produce much better results.

Edited November 10, 2012 by metalcraze

[kawa 14]

(...)

Thanks Seba.

[roni 11]

That's quite a bad mix. He's using both Zeus and SLX - and Zeus is essentially a modified SLX. So he has duplicates of the same - and mind you - outdated scripts. That will mess things up.

ASR AI with TPW LOS and TPW Suppression produce much better results.

First watch vids that he uploaded how AI reacts, then comment, ok ;)

[chrisb 196]

I highly recommend ChrisB's AI .pbos mix with ASR AI and newest beta patch, totally awesome experience, very long, realistic firefights(ammo is often problem) and AI is very effective in cqb now.

All fps-thief in asr mod is ai rearming, if you disable it, you won't notice any performance drop caused by asr mod, glad to know this! :D

I see you may have found your own pbo mix, thats great, hope its working out well.:)

ASR AI with TPW LOS and TPW Suppression produce much better results.

They do? lets have a look then. Post up some vids of ai doing everything they do in the vids I put up, using just the two mods you mention, only you have better results without using pbo's from GL4, SLX or Zeus , thats great, have to say I'm surprised, still, I’m all for improving ai whilst reducing pbo's in my ai folder, if at all pos..

Look forward to seeing your vids, you could use the same test format our group uses i.e. ai using and fighting from buildings effectively, reactions to sound and smoke, going for cover whilst engaging the enemy (bounding in a human like way from open ground), using correct stances, building searches, using another route once the current route has been compromised, deploying smoke whilst going for cover and engaging the enemy correctly (from open ground), etc ..

The vids I put up were all on default configs, when you start playing with the configs and setting them up to your own setup, the results just get better and the ai get even more responsive and harder to fight..

Testing, tweaking and having an open mind, that’s one for not dumping ai mods that helped shape a game, we all know which those were and still are.

I read in the A3 forum about members who want to see ai doing things they don’t see now in their A2. Most of the things we have been playing with for some years now in our A2.

Test and see, its all there, I only want to see it as standard in A3 not as a collection of pbo's, albeit from terrific mods..

[kawa 14]

ChrisB,

your vids are very intesresting and I would have a few questions (that I poste here as your answer may be intesresting for other players too)

- would your mix be compatible with UPSMON?

- could you plsease share the server config files you do use for all thesse mods?

- do you think it can be used in missions ala Warfare (or other 32 players MP missions)?

[seba1976 98]

Sure, but there is no single thread for it, so there you have posts, where you can find very usefull info, enjoy -

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?136304-TPWC-AI-suppression-system&p=2221224&viewfull=1#post2221224 - on the bottom of thread you can see post with complete list

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?133738-AI-Improvement&p=2222953&viewfull=1#post2222953

I hope, Chris won't be angry at me for linking this :D

Thanks Roni.

[chrisb 196]

ChrisB,

your vids are very intesresting and I would have a few questions (that I poste here as your answer may be intesresting for other players too)

1/ would your mix be compatible with UPSMON?

2/ could you plsease share the server config files you do use for all thesse mods?

3/ do you think it can be used in missions ala Warfare (or other 32 players MP missions)?

Yes Kawa

1/ Not sure, I have not tried, don’t use ‘Upsmon’, so like gl3/gl4, script form. It would be interesting to see some results.

2/ That’s not my side of things, way too tech for me, they know what we need to play, mod and everything else wise. I just click and play, well not strictly true, I am involved in the mission making and testing plus setting up ai mod configs, although each to their own user config wise, so don’t ask. Anyway this might help regards server configs etc.

3/ Warfare game-play (warfare, conquer the map), well I cannot see why not, don’t play that type of game, so don’t know, but certainly why not!.. Regards other multiplayer missions, yes, providing the missions are built and based on a GL4 foundation…

GL4 can be unfriendly towards other missions not made with the gl4 format, i.e. it has been said it breaks BIS campaign missions. I wouldn’t know as I’ve never played any BIS campaigns..

[metalcraze 290]

Here you go ChrisB

As you can see with Zeus / SLX they have almost manic wish of rushing into some compound even if it means turning the back on the enemy - resulting in them getting shot in the back while most of their team simply runs away.

With ASR AI they halt when they see an enemy, engage, then advance. ASR AI has the code for garrisoning the buildings as well, they just won't do it every time they see a building exposing themselves.

BTW GL4 has garrison buildings scripts on its own and it's quite possible that Zeus / SLX mess with those too.

Edit: and here's another test vs. an AI patrol with both your magic mix and ASR AI

Edited November 11, 2012 by metalcraze

[kawa 14]

Thanks for your answer ChrisB.

[Guess Who 10]

Here you go ChrisB

As you can see with Zeus / SLX they have almost manic wish of rushing into some compound even if it means turning the back on the enemy - resulting in them getting shot in the back while most of their team simply runs away.

With ASR AI they halt when they see an enemy, engage, then advance. ASR AI has the code for garrisoning the buildings as well, they just won't do it every time they see a building exposing themselves.

BTW GL4 has garrison buildings scripts on its own and it's quite possible that Zeus / SLX mess with those too.

Edit: and here's another test vs. an AI patrol with both your magic mix and ASR AI

Yep, that's why I don't wanna play without it anymore. ASR_AI FTW; can you handle it? :p

[seba1976 98]

ASR AI has the code for garrisoning the buildings as well, they just won't do it every time they see a building exposing themselves.

AFAIK, they only randomly enter buildings while not in combat, meaning they won't enter buildings to protect themselves.

ASR AI is a very basic AI modification, and it should not be compared with GL4 and things like that. Just see the list of features on the first page. It was originally created to randomize skills of units, and to allow them to rearm themselves. It has evolved ever since, but not to a different kind of beast.

Just in case: I only play with ASR AI, or just vanilla, and I don't use GL4 or SLX, but credit where credit is due :).

[delta99 34]

Here you go ChrisB

As you can see with Zeus / SLX they have almost manic wish of rushing into some compound even if it means turning the back on the enemy - resulting in them getting shot in the back while most of their team simply runs away.

With ASR AI they halt when they see an enemy, engage, then advance. ASR AI has the code for garrisoning the buildings as well, they just won't do it every time they see a building exposing themselves.

BTW GL4 has garrison buildings scripts on its own and it's quite possible that Zeus / SLX mess with those too.

Edit: and here's another test vs. an AI patrol with both your magic mix and ASR AI

This is evidence if you ask me. Plus the fact that I see many clans/squads using ASR AI and I don't think I've seen any using Zeus / SLX. Plus if it is true that Zeus hasn't been updated in ages, I wouldn't touch it.

[kklownboy 43]

we did the whole SLX and GL4 at AlphaSquad (AS) Along with Robs tweaks (ASR). Pulled and picked, fixed and tested...and Rob put together a great mix, that works good for MP, and fine for SP. GL4 has the problem of "ruining " Missions. The only way to make Gl4 work well is to make the mission with it. SLX is just buggy and resource using, tho a awesome amount of stuff there. ASR-AI is made to not break a mission, and be very adjustable. Just load it and a mission will have new life.

I like GL4, I like the combo of GL4 and ASR. I like that the AI in GL4 will head to your last known local if you are spotted. I like that a AI squad will move 3k down the map and look for you (can take 40min). I also like the tweek that you can take out a AI group in under 30sec, and they wont report you.

But thats the issue with GL4, they will leave a spot the mission designer wants them at...( i say thats a lame mission..), so they have to stay on hold/defend, which as i remember is lame, kinda stupid AI... It will also mess up DAC. As for AI in buildings, in our MSO missions they use the buildings all the time, some more than others.

[^Th0mas^ 10]

This is evidence if you ask me. Plus the fact that I see many clans/squads using ASR AI and I don't think I've seen any using Zeus / SLX. Plus if it is true that Zeus hasn't been updated in ages, I wouldn't touch it.

Zeus hasnt seen any new light since the midle of 2010 I think...