New recoil, please make it go away

[sick1 13]

It just happened to me an hour ago when playing coop.

Yep this happens alot for me. I understand the multiplayer guys wanting this new recoil because it balances it for them, but I what about single player? The AI makes some pretty dam good shots while standing with an Ak. Does anyone know if the AI accuracy is some sort of algorithm? Do they actually line up the sights for a shot.

[no use for a name 0]

The new recoil is fine...not to say it couldn't use some improvement; but it's already 10x better than the old one.

Here's another thought, If you have a problem with AI hitting you from 700m, turn down precisionEnemy= and/or skillEnemy= :idea:

[akd42 10]

And make sure "super AI" is not on.

[Zipper5 74]

I've been playing with super AI turned on and both friendly and enemy skill levels set to full since OFP. :butbut:

[enad 11]

I've been playing with super AI turned on and both friendly and enemy skill levels set to full since OFP. :butbut:

What exactly does SuperAI do? Give them wall hacks and aimbots more powerful than the ones they already use?

[alleycat 28]

Can someone explain what is new in this "recoil system"? And does it affect only brit dlc or the whole game? I just bought OA a week ago and it feels like normal arma2 to me as far as recoil is concerned?

[Decerto 10]

Can someone explain what is new in this "recoil system"? And does it affect only brit dlc or the whole game? I just bought OA a week ago and it feels like normal arma2 to me as far as recoil is concerned?

It was brought in with the new 1.54 patch and BAF DLC. Basically the weapon sight doesn't auto-centre after a few shots and you have to re-centre it yourself.

I've noticed little difference as I always have my weapon on semi and double-tap shots unless I'm around buildings and I have it on burst or auto in case someone is around the corner.

[TinManNFO 10]

1) Are the prone climb also a problem now? I find I need very little "gun work" in prone.

Well, for me it's not so much a "problem" so far and more that it just "feels off" to me. Some people are more concerned about it, however, so I'm suggesting something that could make them satisfied while still preventing rapid fire from being too accurate for the people who like the current implementation.

2) I expect there to be quite a significant difference to "calm shooting at the range" compared to in a hot zone.

In this case, I was doing calm shooting at the range in the game as a starting point, so at least from my own point of view I would prefer that it fairly accurately represent my real life experience of calm shooting at the range if that's what I'm doing in the game, and any combat stress related effects be added on top of that when I'm in a combat situation in the game.

That is quite far from what I experienced with my 7.62 rifle. I spent quite a few seconds re-aiming between each shot when shooting for score, pluss getting off the shot in a controlled squeeze (something we don't need to worry about at all), although this was iron sights only. I've never shot a 5.56 rifle though.

Yes, with re-aim, not shooting blind after the first shot was aimed.

And regarding not needing to reaim after firing a shot in a good prone position, that is not true. The target may remain in the sight picture, but you are still going to have to aim that second shot, even in the best slinged-up tight prone position.

I actually don't disagree with you on this, but note that I'm talking about the aim point, and not the impact point of the bullet, which as someone else mentioned is additionally affected by dispersion and other effects, which is a different topic. As far as I can remember, if I had a good prone supported position it settled back within maybe 4-5 MOA or so (near the edge of the circle on the zeroing target); of course I wanted to take the time to reaim it at the center of the target and get a clean trigger squeeze, because you're supposed to use the same point of aim for every shot when you're zeroing, and because all else being equal anyone would want to be as accurate as possible, and not reaiming would be potentially adding another ~4 MOA error on top of my current ~4 MOA error. Unfortunately, vanilla A2/OA doesn't take into account unsupported vs supported (whether it be with a bipod or on a sandbag or rock, etc.), but generally that should just make the amount of error bigger but not change the basic behavior. In any event, I feel that to be realistic the weapon should come back down eventually, it's just a matter of how far away from the original aimpoint it would end up and how long this would take. Again it's been a while, so I'll try to go to the range in the near future and try to see how much movement I get in various positions.

Carl Gustaffa, I don't doubt that the difference in caliber may be relevant to our differences in experience with this; after you'd mentioned it, I remembered a conversation I'd had with a friend several years ago who was a fairly small woman, and she said that when she had trained with an M16 as a policewoman in a previous occupation she found the recoil to be very easy to handle. I imagine if she had been using something like most 7.62mm battle rifles she would have had a harder time.

[Sirex1 10]

@sirex1

I am not a soldier, but all I read about when I read about gunfighting is the importance of teaching shooting because humans are really bad at hitting targets when they are pumped with adrenalin and fearing for their life. That not to say that combat is slow but hitting is difficult and humans are relatively difficult to kill fast with small bullets actually you have to shoot them a lot if you don't hit exactly in the brain, heart or spine - thats at least what i get from what I read heres an example: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2010armament/WednesdayLandmarkBPerArvidsson.pdf

STGN

Yes, but i will inform you that soldiers are infact not a farmboy pressed in to combat. They are trained. Often for 9-15 months. In one day one soldiers could participate in 3 seperate combat exercises or fire over 200 rounds on the firing range. Make sure you understood this. Done? Okay, this means that every action they ever need to do is built in to the "muscle memory", the body will react before the brain, werapons jam the hands will do unjam proceduer before your mind even reacts. Same thing in combat, some one shoot you will have your face in the ground before you realised what happend because you have done this 1000 before. If it is contact they will do contact procduer. Firing will be second nature. Soldiers train realistic, they are not your average street guy given a weapon.

How is it humanly possible to kill 8 people in the span of 10 seconds at the range of 500+ with a sniper rifle, even a semi-auto one?

The old recoil was a blast, by blast I mean you didn't have to compensate for shit and just keep on shoot'n. I had scores of 150-180, 30-40 minutes into a Warfare/domi game and was banned on several servers for 'unrealistic scoring'.

You know the previous system was bullshit. Armed Assault before patch 1.05(3?) had similar recoil to current one and it was perfect, but for some reason it was changed to tap-your-left-mouse-button-3-times in under 1 second with M4 AGOC and you have a kill.

Sevearal consricpt with my could fire of three shots under one second, it was their natural way of getting a tight grouping, firing fast after aiming, and that was with iron sight. What weapon experience do you have?

Edited September 1, 2010 by Sirex1

[WhoCares 0]

The only reason I have a problem with the new recoil is because combined with "fantastic" new patch. AI are now hitting me from 700m away with a FAL standing up, when I would have NO chance of hitting them from that far with an FAL.

It just makes the game so unbalanced, either lower the difficulty of the AI, or make the recoil affect them. :(

Proper aim for a shot is not affected by recoil! Not for the player and it shouldn't for the AI either.

It just affects the time to fire a sequence of precise rounds.

And my experience using the FAL is that it is surprisingly precise at a range of ~600m and still quite powerful (= one-shot kills; in-game and prone of course).

Weapon sway depending on stance is a different topic, but I don't think it has been changed with the latest patch.

@sirex: How often did you have your weapon jam on you in excercise?! Back in my times shooting the G3 the only jams that I got was when we were shooting blanks - I don't think we had a single jam in our whole platoon while shooting on the range. So, assuming it is not much different with M4/M16 and the like you will still need a second or two to realize what's going on (mag empty or jam?) before your "mechanics" kick in...

Edit: Removed something as I misread sirex post...

Edited September 1, 2010 by WhoCares

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just curious if a list for A2CO (BAF) weapons based on calculation of Free_recoil could be more useful for BIS devs than bitching about how a player should perceive the recoil?

[stgn 39]

Yes, but i will inform you that soldiers are infact not a farmboy pressed in to combat. They are trained. Often for 9-15 months. In one day one soldiers could participate in 3 seperate combat exercises or fire over 200 rounds on the firing range. Make sure you understood this. Done? Okay, this means that every action they ever need to do is built in to the "muscle memory", the body will react before the brain, werapons jam the hands will do unjam proceduer before your mind even reacts. Same thing in combat, some one shoot you will have your face in the ground before you realised what happend because you have done this 1000 before. If it is contact they will do contact procduer. Firing will be second nature. Soldiers train realistic, they are not your average street guy given a weapon.

Never said anything about farmboys.

If you read the link I showed you would see that it was not about the average civilian but about trained soldiers look at the last couple of slides showing how accuracy drops off really fast, pulling the trigger is all fine and dandy but you can't miss fast enough to win.

STGN

[HamishUK 0]

+1 for the new recoil system. I have had no issue in dropping the AI...omly now it is much more satisfying as I felt I was playing CoD before.

[Count Sessine 0]

I like the recoil system, + 1

[Beagle 684]

I like it on US weapons...the russian made ones have to be tweaked...all OPFOR weapons exept the FAL feel a bit to "strong" compared to the US stuff...althoug the russians have weaker charges and lesser projectile weight. especially the 107 series should be changend as this should have nearly no climb at all with its counter mass system.

[That guy 10]

... Especially the 107 series should be changend as this should have nearly no climb at all with its counter mass system.

+1000

[TinManNFO 10]

Back in my times shooting the G3 the only jams that I got was when we were shooting blanks - I don't think we had a single jam in our whole platoon while shooting on the range. So, assuming it is not much different with M4/M16 and the like...

I can attest that I've only ever had one single stoppage with an M16 or M4 using live ammunition, and it was because I had a round with a bad primer. (I ejected the round, and I could clearly see the firing pin mark on the primer; nothing else seemed wrong about it, and I decided to single-load it back in and see what would happen, and it did fire on the second try...) It did jam like crazy using the blanks, though; I either couldn't get a good seal on the blank firing adaptor/attachment (BFA), or those blanks just didn't have enough gas pressure, or both...

[Beagle 684]

I can attest that I've only ever had one single stoppage with an M16 or M4 using live ammunition, and it was because I had a round with a bad primer. (I ejected the round, and I could clearly see the firing pin mark on the primer; nothing else seemed wrong about it, and I decided to single-load it back in and see what would happen, and it did fire on the second try...) It did jam like crazy using the blanks, though; I either couldn't get a good seal on the blank firing adaptor/attachment (BFA), or those blanks just didn't have enough gas pressure, or both...

A oiled patch of cotton fabric can be used to seal the BFA, it was forbidden, but it worked ;)

[HyperU2 11]

Blanks were more likely to make me pretend to have jams, I never fired them because I didn't want to clean carbon for nothing.

[maturin 12]

Optical mice suck for games, Korean Pro Starcraft players still use ball mice. Get in a tank and move the turret with an optical mouse, it takes lots of little shifts to get it around a whole 360 revolution. With an old ball mouse you can flick it and let it spin then stop it right where you want it.

Preach it. Then tell me where the hell to buy ball mice. I can find like two on the entire freaking internet, and they are either overpriced or shoddily made.

[Decerto 10]

Preach it. Then tell me where the hell to buy ball mice. I can find like two on the entire freaking internet, and they are either overpriced or shoddily made.

The only things they make these days are trackballs like this mouse:

http://www.logitech.com/en-au/mice-pointers/trackballs/devices/4787

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Ball mouse = pain in the ass.

Last major-league starcraft game I saw footage of, I'm pretty certain the guy who won the tournament was using an optical device. He also wasn't Korean.

[bigshot 64]

well, bit the bullet yesterday and installed the latest official 1.54 patch (non beta) to try it out. Besides seeing lower frame rates and broken AI that no longer responds while in danger mode I have to say that I absolutely hate the new recoil system as well....really bad decision to implement it that way sorry to say. Firefights are now a frustrating experience and I'm going about my missions now hoping I dont get involved in them too often....great idea for a "game" huh?

<sigh>

oh well...i really hope they put the recoil back to the way it was (wont be playing too much longer if they don't)...if they want to offer an optional way to change it for the few who like the newer system thats fine...but put it back the way it was as a default setting is the only way to avoid disaster IMO.

Honestly, these patches are getting bad...the AI seems to be getting worse with every release and the new recoil is obviously going to take this game into a new realm where very few people want to go.

Sorry to be pissy folks and I usually don't say much after a patch release but this release really gets my goat. Definitely do not like what I'm seeing or where this all seems headed and I hope it wont be a matter of months before it's fixed this time around. (I dont do betas)

[nkenny 1057]

well, bit the bullet yesterday and installed the latest official 1.54 patch (non beta) to try it out. Besides seeing lower frame rates and broken AI that no longer responds while in danger mode I have to say that I absolutely hate the new recoil system as well....really bad decision to implement it that way sorry to say. Firefights are now a frustrating experience and I'm going about my missions now hoping I dont get involved in them too often....great idea for a "game" huh?

<sigh>

oh well...i really hope they put the recoil back to the way it was (wont be playing too much longer if they don't)...if they want to offer an optional way to change it for the few who like the newer system thats fine...but put it back the way it was as a default setting is the only way to avoid disaster IMO.

Honestly, these patches are getting bad...the AI seems to be getting worse with every release and the new recoil is obviously going to take this game into a new realm where very few people want to go.

Sorry to be pissy folks and I usually don't say much after a patch release but this release really gets my goat. Definitely do not like what I'm seeing or where this all seems headed and I hope it wont be a matter of months before it's fixed this time around. (I dont do betas)

Aren't you a bucket of optimism.

Try reading whats actually written, instead of what you THINK should be written. The majority of posts in all recoil threads so far have been positive. During online play I've NEVER heard a comment or complaint in regards to recoil.

Frankly every bit of evidence points toward the next patch coming with a whole range of tweaks to adapt the game to the new improvements introduced with the BAF patch 1.54

AI getting worse? I doubt it. The real shame is the terrible user interface.

-k

[CarlGustaffa 4]

If he doesn't "do betas", doesn't that mean he's stuck with stuck AIs? I'd say that's a pretty bad situation. The stuck AI fix that came with the beta I suspect would be so important I can't entirely figure out why they're going with a new "round" of betas with new features, without getting the really nasty bugs properly fixed in a patch update. Full patch cycle isn't exactly short :p If I had a principle of not "doing betas", I think I would leave the game if AI was left broken for so long.

If such update exist, then disregard :)