New recoil, please make it go away

[Decerto 10]

Optical mice suck for games, Korean Pro Starcraft players still use ball mice. Get in a tank and move the turret with an optical mouse, it takes lots of little shifts to get it around a whole 360 revolution. With an old ball mouse you can flick it and let it spin then stop it right where you want it.

[sick1 13]

I've never had this problem before with any game for years. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with my mouse.

[Defunkt 431]

Well it's known that if enough people complain about they will change it

You seem to be labouring under the illusion they will also change it if one person complains endlessly...

[sick1 13]

You seem to be labouring under the illusion they will also change it if one person complains endlessly...

Well this is the topic of the discussion. If this thread has no reason to exist then I'm sure it would have all ready been closed. I'm presenting my case about this issue. If that's consider complaining, whats the point? I've reached my post limit for this thread. ;)

Edited August 31, 2010 by Sick1

[maddogx 13]

Well this is the topic of the discussion. If this thread has no reason to exist then I'm sure it would have all ready been closed. I'm presenting my case about this issue. If that's consider complaining, whats the point? I've reached my post limit for this thread. ;)

As long as it is on-topic for Arma2 (check), isn't covered by an existing thread (check) and doesn't turn into a flame war (so far, check), this thread has no need to be closed, even if it does merely represent the views of a vocal minority. Everyone has the right to complain, as long as they accept that others may voice differing opinions and counter-arguments. ;)

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think it's safe to say that the majority of people are okay with the new recoil, or at least aren't sufficiently bothered by it to want to complain about it. Furthermore we have been told by the devs that they intend to leave the new recoil system in and not make it optional.

So I guess the last real option for the anti-new-recoil peeps is to make some sensible suggestions as to how the new system can be tweaked and "improved", so that it might be a bit more to their liking. I, for one, am only really bothered by the weapon "climb", and would gladly see it reduced or even removed. The rest of the new system can stay, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited August 31, 2010 by MadDogX
typo

[ast65 10]

Maybe the old recoil was more fun to shoot but we aren´t playin a fun shooter, r we?

[HyperU2 11]

Well if we're attacking the fun aspect we could change a lot more things.

[EDcase 87]

I think people who like the old recoil are used to playing arcade shooters where its nice and easy to line up a shot and keep pumping the trigger no matter what weapon is used.

This is a simulator and as such it recreates the recoil kick relative to caliber and stance. If you are playing as a sniper you must be prone to reduce the kick.

The recoil effect is more accurate and makes shooting much more interesting for the player. Just get used to it.

[That guy 10]

I am going to paraphrase a post i made in the beta thread regarding the new recoil:

the game automatically gives you everything. you need to have some input

it gives you perfect trigger squeeze, perfect sight picture, perfect stock weld, perfect breath control (even after sprinting or being "suppressed" its quite manageable), perfect posture, and a weightless weapon with (until now) perfect recoil compensation. you want to talk "realism"? model all this shit in

go cry a f'n river

YOU need to have some input into this whole "shooting thing"

in the real world its easy to shoot. its moderate to shoot well. its hard to shoot good. its extremely hard to shoot like we do regularly in arma

[Steakslim 1]

Optical mice suck for games, Korean Pro Starcraft players still use ball mice. Get in a tank and move the turret with an optical mouse, it takes lots of little shifts to get it around a whole 360 revolution. With an old ball mouse you can flick it and let it spin then stop it right where you want it.

Protip: Adjustable sensitivity ftw.

Also:

Korean Pro Starcraft players still use ball mice.

Bad example to use....

Edited August 31, 2010 by Steakslim

[meade95 0]

Here is the problem I see with the new recoil system as is (with no option to turn it off).

Reality is there are forces / individuals with differing profiencies with weapon accuracy. Do elite forces in A2/OA have less recoil? Those AI teammates that are rated better? I would suspect so. (and hope so!....if you have fellow teammates rated elite....but you are also part of this unit and how is that reflected??)

But lets be honest....When it comes to handling your "mouse" this isn't exactly the same thing as firing a weapon in the least. And if you are part of an elite force (which none of us are in real life) you would have great weapon profiency. Saying learn how to use a "mouse" well / quickly I don't feel is a smart way to try and suggest you are simulating learning to fire a weapon.

Perhaps the recoil should be a reflection of what your man's "SKILL" rating is set to?

Edited August 31, 2010 by meade95

[Sirex1 10]

Here is the problem I see with the new recoil system as is (with no option to turn it off).

Reality is there are forces / individuals with differing profiencies with weapon accuracy. Do elite forces in A2/OA have less recoil? Those AI teammates that are rated better? I would suspect so.

However, when it comes to handling your "mouse" this isn't exactly the same thing as firing a weapon in the least. And if you are part of an elite force (which none of us are in real life) you would have great weapon profiency. Saying learn how to use a "mouse" well / quickly I don't feel is a smart way to try and suggest you are simulating learning to fire a weapon.

Perhaps the recoil should be a reflection of what your man's "SKILL" rating is set to?

Well atleast this suggestion has some thought behind it, unlike the new recoil system.

[akd42 10]

Here is the problem I see with the new recoil system as is (with no option to turn it off).

Reality is there are forces / individuals with differing profiencies with weapon accuracy. Do elite forces in A2/OA have less recoil? Those AI teammates that are rated better? I would suspect so. (and hope so!....if you have fellow teammates rated elite....but you are also part of this unit and how is that reflected??)

But lets be honest....When it comes to handling your "mouse" this isn't exactly the same thing as firing a weapon in the least. And if you are part of an elite force (which none of us are in real life) you would have great weapon profiency. Saying learn how to use a "mouse" well / quickly I don't feel is a smart way to try and suggest you are simulating learning to fire a weapon.

Perhaps the recoil should be a reflection of what your man's "SKILL" rating is set to?

So elite forces should also have auto-aim and automatic ranging as well, no? Surely these highly trained troops would be very skilled at spotting, aiming and compensating for distance. Obviously doing any of these things with a mouse and computer screen is not like real life so should be done by the game not the player.

Also very important that only the side in MP playing as special forces have these abilities, because certainly the Delta Operator 3D model is more skilled than the Takistani militia 3D model.

[meade95 0]

I think the skill rating of a given soilder (be it played by a human or AI) should be automatically reflected in the recoil of a weapon when fired and how quickly you are able to accurately repeat fire / or keep a steady sight on the enemy.

[Steakslim 1]

Seriously guys, is having to drag your mouse down a couple of millimeters every time you shoot really that bothersome?

[Capt. Sand 10]

are we gonna need another poll? "keep it or tweak it?"

just joking.

I went back to read some of this thread and found CarlGustaffa's post -

Afaik they're already looking into the possibility of weapon rests. If this becomes only for weapons with a bipod (ala ACE deploy bipod) or ability to rest any weapon on any surface (ala ACE weapon rest system) remains to be seen.

I had no idea they were looking into that. that's one thing I really liked about ACE. will wait and see how it turns out.

[Nightrain 10]

I had no idea they were looking into that. that's one thing I really liked about ACE. will wait and see how it turns out.

I would love that too.

[akd42 10]

I think the skill rating of a given soilder (be it played by a human or AI) should be automatically reflected in the recoil of a weapon when fired and how quickly you are able to accurately repeat fire / or keep a steady sight on the enemy.

Please explain why this should only apply to recoil management and not every other challenge you might face in the game? This seems to be an argument of convenience...

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

How is it humanly possible to kill 8 people in the span of 10 seconds at the range of 500+ with a sniper rifle, even a semi-auto one?

The old recoil was a blast, by blast I mean you didn't have to compensate for shit and just keep on shoot'n. I had scores of 150-180, 30-40 minutes into a Warfare/domi game and was banned on several servers for 'unrealistic scoring'.

You know the previous system was bullshit. Armed Assault before patch 1.05(3?) had similar recoil to current one and it was perfect, but for some reason it was changed to tap-your-left-mouse-button-3-times in under 1 second with M4 AGOC and you have a kill.

[meade95 0]

Please explain why this should only apply to recoil management and not every other challenge you might face in the game? This seems to be an argument of convenience...

Well, it should apply to many of the other areas (with regard to your AI teammates). I sure hope to hell general SA, sighting capabilities, weapons efficiency on some levels.....which definitely should include accuracy levels and ability to put rates of fire on targets continually.

If skill ratings do not effect these attributes of your teammates AI (and where appropriate of your own human controlled solider) what the hell is the purpose of a skill ratings to begin with ...

[mosh 0]

SIMPLE SOLUTION... (I imagine I'm not the first to think of this)

Make an addon that changes it to 'no recoil' for singleplayer. Make it not MP compatible.

Or whine and whine and whine about it some more. :D

[akd42 10]

Well, it should apply to many of the other areas (with regard to your AI teammates). I sure hope to hell general SA, sighting capabilities, weapons efficiency on some levels.....which definitely should include accuracy levels and ability to put rates of fire on targets continually.

If skill ratings do not effect these attributes of your teammates AI (and where appropriate of your own human controlled solider) what the hell is the purpose of a skill ratings to begin with ...

The question has nothing to do with AI behavior.

[enad 11]

The only reason I have a problem with the new recoil is because combined with "fantastic" new patch. AI are now hitting me from 700m away with a FAL standing up, when I would have NO chance of hitting them from that far with an FAL.

It just makes the game so unbalanced, either lower the difficulty of the AI, or make the recoil affect them. :(

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

AI are now hitting me from 700m away with a FAL standing up

Bull:cc:. I provide map reading courses, as well as navigation and range finding.

[enad 11]

Bull:cc:. I provide map reading courses, as well as navigation and range finding.

It just happened to me an hour ago when playing coop.