Project Reality - WIP Discussion

[craig.turner 10]

What will stop them from playing as lone wolves, taking choppers on kamikaze missions etc. other than just admin control over such people?

One of the gameplay dynamics we use with PR: BF2, is the squad system and kit request system.

To be able to drive a tank you must request through your "Squad" menu, a Crewman kit. To fly a Jet or fly a Helo you must request a pilot kit, etc, etc.

If players are not part of a Squad, they simply do not have access to this "Squad" menu, and simply can not get this kit, so cannot use that particular asset. (This eliminates a lone wolf taking a vital asset for himself to rack a load of points up)

There is also a respawn time delay - which is quite long for Vital assets. This has shown to work very well, as no longer do players just take it, crash it, with no care - as they know its an asset lost for a long time, for the team. (some missions have "no" respawn at all on certain assets). This has a great effect on the players, as they then look after their equipment more, and do not just take an Apache for example just for some transport, and dump it.

One step further, each squad can only have a certain number of Classes, therefore eliminating a squad full of snipers etc etc ... unless that Mission dictates it of course.

Rally points, are Squad level, and are effective and usefull - another reason to work in a team, especially on the large maps (squad leaders must place them, and have a certain number of the squad next to them too).

FOB's, are a very good asset that are again player created, again requiring teamwork to create them - and a certain number of the engineer class to "build" them. This has over time, proven a good move, as we now see Teams actually working together naturally, ie you will usually find an engineer squad, who will move around the battlefield building FOB's as required by the team. Also as the FOB's need Stores, you sometime get a logistics squad that will ferry around supplies to the fighting troops.

For the player who does not join a squad he will not benefit at all with all the above, as it simply won't be accessible to him.

Basically we are rewarding players for working as a team, and persuading them its better to be a part of a team than not.

That of course is just a small part, there is much more to it, but that should help you understand it a little more

Also bear in mind this is Public PvP - no Bots at all, and they all work together naturally, as if they are regulars to the server.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Craig.Turner

[szarki 10]

Thanks for your quick response. I hope it will work out just as well as it does in PR:BF2. I can't wait for PR:ArmA, I think it can be a very good addition to the game!

[USSRsniper 0]

To this day, the PR community never ceases to blow me away. Never has there been a game where a convergence of complete strangers can join a squad and play like they've been long term clan members. Merging game mechanics and a philosophy of game design into something that has never been accomplished in an FPS public game server is what sets PR apart from anything else. Those that don't have a team-work mindset will probably never 'get it'. To those that do, you're in for a hell of a good time.

Well PR mod does merge strangers in a squad, but what next? If people are unwilling to play as a team even PR mod can't do anything. Saw plenty of rambos on BF2 PR servers :rolleyes:

[das attorney 858]

Is your in game comms through the Arma VOIP or are you looking at something else?

[craig.turner 10]

Is your in game comms through the Arma VOIP or are you looking at something else?

At present ArmA VOIP but we are looking at other options for the future.

[gazzthompson 10]

Well PR mod does merge strangers in a squad, but what next? If people are unwilling to play as a team even PR mod can't do anything. Saw plenty of rambos on BF2 PR servers :rolleyes:

Of course, no one will deny that. There is only so much the DEVs can do, and i have rage quit PR:BF2 plenty of times due to lone wolfs ect

[SG_Smokintodd 0]

Well PR mod does merge strangers in a squad, but what next? If people are unwilling to play as a team even PR mod can't do anything. Saw plenty of rambos on BF2 PR servers :rolleyes:

If they're in my squad and don't play ball, they get the boot. It might take a little time but, as an SL, I'll eventually get who I'm looking for. Most SLs in the community take this approach. Most grunts in the community understand this. It's not perfect but it's damn good.

The tools are there; Admin'd servers, SLs who care, grunts who 'get it', and game mechanics (ie. automagic no squad = boot, limited roles/loadouts, rally points, FOBs , etc.).

[AfterDune 10]

Like every multiplayer game - it's the players that make the gameplay. PR gives you assets and game-rules, it's up to the players to get the right mindset and play the game.

Sure, you can lonewolf, as you can do with any game. It's just not rewarding to go out there on your own, unprotected and everything. Working together is where it's at. Do it and you'll be rewarded with victory - or at least a good round, even if you lose.

PR can't change players, nor can any other game/mod. We do strive for pvp and a shitload of teamwork.

PR is and will not be everybody's cup of tea. And that's fine. Wouldn't want it any other way to be honest.

Don't hate PR for trying to get some awesome pvp going, or the way the development team handles things. If anything, it's a GOOD thing that someone is doing something completely different for a change.

You may be sceptical, you have every right concerning ArmA's current public pvp stuff, but what if......

What if PR actually delivers?

What if teamwork in public pvp games is as common as sand in Takistan?

That's right, it'll be awesome ;).

[ebanks129 10]

It's very rewarding to hide out and IED ambush a convoy lead by actual players....hehe..Can't wait for that in ArmA2.

[DenisRUS 10]

Will it be possible to use Six Updater with PR?

[Smurf 12]

Will it be possible to use Six Updater with PR?

PR will be released as an auto-executable archive.

[kremator 1065]

The only thing that will annoy me about PR is some plonkers taking the 'game' too seriously. You see them on Youtube all the time, pretending to be real soldiers.

Now if you can get the PvP fun without all the 'oh I'm a sergeant and you're a private' bollocks, then this will be great. I will remain dubious however.

[Gaz_pr 10]

The only thing that will annoy me about PR is some plonkers taking the 'game' too seriously. You see them on Youtube all the time, pretending to be real soldiers.

Ironic. Very ironic. That's an interesting comment. Real soldiers actually aren't very receptive this sort of behaviour. However, RP is something people will do if they are given a half decent engine to enact. I have to say, I've seen and heard far more ArmA2 layers 'try' to be soldiers when playing. I've not actively looked on YouTube for something to comment on though. IMO there's far too many 'freetards' and armchair generals on these forums. ArmA2 is commented on as a milsim, and frankly, there's not a huge amount of people, other than airsofting, have any idea here of what actual military life is like other than that presented as a computer game.

Some of the comments are definately interesting here, and quite frankly, misguided. When you take into account that the 2 red tagged members of the PR Dev team are avid users and network admins for their respective regiments in regards to VBS2, have about 32 years of project and personnel management experience between us, and have actively developed a mod constantly in their free time for a collective 13 years, and have a reall y great team of established ArmA/ArmA2 devs working away. Not to mention 32 years of teeth arms military experience between us.

We will endeavour to deliver. But please, calm yourselves in regards to assumptions, when you really haven't seen what we are expecting to be rolling out, and have no personal experience of it, other than jumping in with the cool crowd. There's genuine concerns, then there's repeating your points constantly because you haven't had an answer yet, and still being ignored. The ones with the largest voices are all too often those who haven't actually contributed to the ofp/arma/arma2 community, but would happily leach assets and addons, or at the very least bastardise someone else's hard work.

If you want variation or to work on something, what's wrong with learning how to do it yourself instead or complaining in a thread that clearly does not appeal to you? Hell, for all the bad comments made about the 'PR:BF2 community', they seem to have fired up, produced design plans, and basically built full factions that have since been of sufficient quality to have been introduced into PR on the BF2 engine. The length people have gone to to actually register their displeasure as to 'it's not how things are done here', during the course of this thread, could have easily learnt the basics of modelling, scripting, or texturing by now if they wished to be constructive as opposed to destructive.

ArmA2:PR may well be a niche mod. That's fine. That's what PR:BF2 was. It ended up having the largest playerbase of any PR mod, consistantly. We hope PR:ArmA2 can follow this success, but the team are pragmatic in terms of their approach and are fully aware that we couldn't even hope this may be the case without delivering in the first place. If you don't like it, don't waste your own time replying or downloading.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Gaz_pr

[Big Mac 19]

IMO there's far too many 'freetards' and armchair generals on these forums. ArmA2 is commented on as a milsim, and frankly, there's not a huge amount of people, other than airsofting, have any idea here of what actual military life is like other than that presented as a computer game.

Airsofters know about military life? Wow that's rich considering most airsofters around here go to the holiday inn at the end of the day instead of roughin it out in the bush like a real infantryman. Hell airsofters take the whole "acting like a soldier" to a whole new level of disgust.

If you want variation or to work on something, what's wrong with learning how to do it yourself instead or complaining in a thread that clearly does not appeal to you? Hell, for all the bad comments made about the 'PR:BF2 community', they seem to have fired up, produced design plans, and basically built full factions that have since been of sufficient quality to have been introduced into PR on the BF2 engine. The length people have gone to to actually register their displeasure as to 'it's not how things are done here', during the course of this thread, could have easily learnt the basics of modelling, scripting, or texturing by now if they wished to be constructive as opposed to destructive.

Quite a few who have voiced their displeasure and even the ones who haven't voiced them publicly are respected addon makers.

Ironic. Very ironic. That's an interesting comment. Real soldiers actually don't appreciate this sort of behaviour. However, RP is something people will do if they are given a half decent engine to enact. I have to say, I've seen and heard far more ArmA2 layers 'try' to be soldiers when playing. I've not actively looked on YouTube for something to comment on though.

I can agree with you 100% on that. I've been in a few units that take it way too seriously, but that's not limited to ArmA or BF2:PR that goes back ages to when online gaming first started.

[Gaz_pr 10]

Airsofters know about military life? Wow that's rich considering most airsofters around here go to the holiday inn at the end of the day instead of roughin it out in the bush like a real infantryman. Hell airsofters take the whole "acting like a soldier" to a whole new level of disgust.

Apologies, I don't know if you're being sarcastic or otherwise towards me or airsofters :D

Quite a few who have voiced their displeasure and even the ones who haven't voiced them publicly are respected addon makers.

You're privy to this? Why won't they voice their comments, opinions or concerns in public? On a personal level, nothing really worse than chinese whispers or snide comments in passing. It breeds assumption, false expectations and contempt, and I think there's quite enough of this here already. Concerns of the community that actually have a point, as opposed to 'a different way of doing things', are usually addressed by someone connected to the PR:ArmA2 team. If you had it all your own way, there'd be no variation; and lack of variation is a cesspool of stagnation.

If you're not interested in what PR can bring the the PvP community, then fine. Don't bother reading this thread or downloading. I wonder to myself if half the people who have commented here are active PvP players and not people who just wish to strip addons bare of 'bits they like', and to hell with the gameplay, which IS PvP..... It's how we do things to try to ensure a consistant experience. Sorry if you don't agree with it. People can spend the lifespan of the thread commenting on it, but frankly, it will not make a blind bit of difference. We have no guilt in wishing to protect our team's work as much as the other mod teams who have commented as such have here. As a PvP mod however, we are most interested in protecting our gameplay as well as our assets.

Big Mac, I note that your post history is interesting. Not only do you openly question the professional team that brings you the game you play in terms of protecting THEIR assets, licencing and the subsequent protection it offers the individual mods, you've trolled ebank's thread specifically attacking PR and it's 'conduct'. You seem to have lost interest in the project, as you stated. You advocate the 'modding community' throughout, as it's 'not the done thing'. Enlighten us as to what you've actually brought to the modding community here other than a clan and lots of time on your hands to comment? I note your join date and post count when you're claiming "our displeasure". I think you need to give yourself a shake to be honest.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1721777&postcount=150

lol. I'll end it there. No point trying to reason with a horse bolting with it's blinkers still on :)

Edited August 18, 2010 by Gaz_pr

[galzohar 31]

I was going to say something, but Gaz_pr summed it all up quite well.

Airsofters know about military life? Wow that's rich considering most airsofters around here go to the holiday inn at the end of the day instead of roughin it out in the bush like a real infantryman. Hell airsofters take the whole "acting like a soldier" to a whole new level of disgust.

I don't think he meant they know how to be a soldier, but rather than they have some shade of a clue compared to the average forum-goer.

I can agree with you 100% on that. I've been in a few units that take it way too seriously, but that's not limited to ArmA or BF2:PR that goes back ages to when online gaming first started.

I don't think he was talking about "serious" in terms of "playing good", but more in the role playing sense. Some people come to Arma 2 to play a military role playing game that also includes some shooting, and some (myself included) completely hate that aspect and would rather play the game the way it is and not make it up to being something it's not (that is, through roleplaying. Improving it through addons/missions is a completely different topic). Those 2 types of players will probably never get along, as they focus on completely different aspects of the game...

[Big Mac 19]

Apologies, I don't know if you're being sarcastic or otherwise towards me or airsofters

Mainly airsofters, lol.

You're privy to this? Why won't they voice their comments, opinions or concerns in public? Concerns of the community that actually have a point, as opposed to 'a different way of doing things', are usually addressed by someone connected to the ArmA2 team.

Mainly because they either have better things to do, they've seen the reactions of PR already and have decided that it's not worth voicing them if they're not going to listen, or that they're holding off until PR's first release to see if they're proven right in their opposition.

If you're not interested in what PR can bring the the PvP community, then fine. Don't bother reading this thread or downloading. I wonder to myself if half the people who have commented here are active PvP players and not people who just wish to strip addons bare of 'bits they like', and to hell with the gameplay, which IS PvP....). It's how we do things to try to ensure a consistant experience. Sorry if you don't agree with it.

I'm going to download PR and play a few rounds on a server to see if I was right in being in opposition to it. I'd be making myself look like a hypocrite if I didn't at least give it a shot. I figure if I'm right then I'm right and I uninstall it and if I'm wrong well then I have a proper venue to play PvP without dealing with campers.

My main problems with PR is not the mod the mod looks bang on, it's with attitude of the PR staff when faced with constructive criticism and that has been to get defensive, to be stubborn, toss their credentials at people, and generally act like they're right and we're wrong. I understand it's their mod and they have every right to to do with it what they please, but if I were them I'd take the constructive criticism and apply it so PR will appeal to the community as a whole.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Big Mac

[sommergemuese 0]

One Question: Is it allowed to host a German PR Server? Reason is I like talking in my mother language more than English ;)

[Gaz_pr 10]

One Question: Is it allowed to host a German PR Server? Reason is I like talking in my mother language more than English ;)

Absolutely, no reason why not. It may take a while to have any kind of PR-ised localisation up and running though :( I suggest PMing UK_Force asking about the possibility for a more definitive answer.

[craig.turner 10]

it's with attitude of the PR staff when faced with constructive criticism and that has been to get defensive, to be stubborn, toss their credentials at people, and generally act like they're right and we're wrong.

Could you tell us where this is proven, as I genuinely don't think we are Big Mac, accusations like this should be backed up:

Defensive

Stubborn

Act like we are right

Toss their credentials at people - (in a pm to you and you alone, I told you of my background, so you could maybe understand a little about me and that I can make a decision and project manage it - but that was a pm, not "tossing it at people")

I have answered a lot of relevant questions by the community, have told the truth about what we want to achieve and have not once mentioned we are "right", only that this is what we want to do in our Mod.

If I am wrong I stand corrected of course.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Craig.Turner

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I note your join date and post count when you're claiming "our displeasure". I think you need to give yourself a shake to be honest.

By "Our Displeasure" he was talking about the many people who were disappointed, Including myself.

I wouldn't talk about join dates if I were you, considering your own.

[[aps]gnat 28]

ive done with "discussing" with Big Mac, Darkhorse and Gnat.

Fuck me, you people are desperate for scapegoats. A total of 3 people is bringing your world down is it?

Make that 2 really, because I've barely made any posts, except to;

- Suggest ArmA players aren't going to rip your mod into a 100 variations ...

- Highlight some ignorant generalizations about what servers are out there and what ArmA players really only play mission wise ......

- Small warning that "cookie-cutting" from one community to another isnt always the best way to win more fans.

I wish you nothing but success.

Edited August 18, 2010 by [APS]Gnat
typo: ignore to ignorant

[tyler4171 10]

Wrong, They can take legal action. PR is copyrighted and therefore protected by law against these actions, especially when they are taken without official allowance granted by the PR Team/Owners.

Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States to the creators of "original works" including literary works, movies, musical works, sound recordings, paintings, photographs, software, live performances, and television or sound broadcasts. This protection is available to both published and unpublished works

No where do I see the word "Mod/Modification/freeware" on this list sir, good day!

[Fox '09 14]

-snip- wrong button

[tyler4171 10]

PvP players and not people who just wish to strip addons bare of 'bits they like',

Wrong Im pretty sure most (if not all) have had a taste of PvP, but saying we strip addons down to what we like is a comment that will gather a lot of criticism. I play ACE2 for example, and even if I dont like a feature I dont "strip it down" to the parts I like, same with SLX. Thats like saying a respected addon maker is going to take your pbo files and mod them to his liking