CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[max power 21]

If it's such a great game, why don't more people play it?

I dunno... The forum is still active. It seems like people are still playing it and modding it. This is, of course a decade of play, discussion, and modding... this is more than I can say for... well... pretty much anything. I'm sure there are games out there with such longevity but they must be a sure thing indeed. Top 5 percentile.

[Zipper5 74]

*cough*

Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead - $39.51 (Sprocket)

Call of Duty: Black Ops - $59.99 (Steam)

;)

[VanhA-ICON 11]

I dunno... The forum is still active. It seems like people are still playing it and modding it. This is, of course a decade of play, discussion, and modding... this is more than I can say for... well... pretty much anything. I'm sure there are games out there with such longevity but they must be a sure thing indeed. Top 5 percentile.

One big reason for randomness of player activity is that we who started with CWC have just grown older.

And I mean with this that we have families , children and the window which allows huge gaming sessions is very narrow. I'm mostly by the editor when I have even 30 minutes of spare time. Otherwise my chance of actually playing a good session with friends is limited to once a week if lucky.

[[frl]myke 14]

*cough*

Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead - $39.51 (Sprocket)

Call of Duty: Black Ops - $59.99 (Steam)

;)

Well, in this case, please read "cheap" not as what it costs but what it's worth. :p

[Perforator 10]

Myke;1814801']ArmA 2 is a upper class red wine.

And Operation Arrowhead with ACE2 mod is 1787 Chateau Laffite. :)

Does wine get better with age? I'm not sure, but Bohemia's games certainly do.

Clunky old OFP reminds me of my first car, I have many fond memories of it but I wouldn't be caught dead driving around in that old peice of shit nowdays.

[andersson 285]

Ben_S, please tell us whats better with OFP than arma2. No need to mention vanilla missions and campaigns, but as a game.

While your at it can you also please tell us what codemasters did that made OFP better?

(have you finally tried arma2 with a compatible computer?)

[ben_s 11]

Theres nothing wrong with ArmA at all. OFP just has a better 'atmosphere', I don't know if its the setting, missions or just the way it works and plays, perhaps it was the music, the nostaglic feeling of it? Not sure, Perhaps it was a plethora of many things. it just has that feeling. And i've always felt it when playing it. Obviously, You may have a different feeling. And not know what I'm talking about.

I have no idea, I'm just stating that the time BIS made the great storylines and atmospheric games was the time they (BIS & CM) were paired together, Thats gotta be one hell of a coincidence. Not that i'm saying, CM is good today. But back then they were obviously a differnet company.

I think you would be surprised at how well I can get ArmA II to run. ;)

This computer still gets the last laugh when its got a 20 quid proccessor and a <100 quid GPU. hehe

[Perforator 10]

I think you would be surprised at how well I can get ArmA II to run. ;)

Why don't you surprise us all then and upload some of your gameplay footage. :blahblah2:

[paragraphic l 2]

Cause FRAPS doesn't harm his FPS at all?!

[ben_s 11]

Cause FRAPS doesn't harm his FPS at all?!

hehe, this. It runs nicley on low-medium settings on CAA1 maps, and the such. So long as i don't go overboard with the number of AI. Which, You don't need to do in ArmA II.

Why don't you surprise us all then and upload some of your gameplay footage. :blahblah2:

I will see what I can do. But I think FRAPS will just bring my computer to a standstill. :D

Yeah, FRAPS brings the FPS down to like 20-30fps at best. 15 or so in a firefight :(

I will still upload the video if you want me to?

Edited December 18, 2010 by Ben_S

[Richey79 10]

Theres nothing wrong with ArmA at all.

I'm not sure this is true, much as we might love it and get a huge amount out of it.

In terms of reaching a wider audience, you have four problems (at least) straight away:

-The command system. It works well for those who have the time to learn it, but is pretty daunting for those who haven't got the time or inclination. In reality, you only need to know a few commands, and the AI will take care of the rest if you want. This isn't clear to noobies, though.

I fear it will require a total overhaul in future games in the series, and this may be painful for veterans.

-Scalability to weaker systems. Arma 2 can be very scalable, as Ben has demonstrated. However, how much tweaking of his settings, his system, his own expectations and how much downloading of mods (CAA1 as an example, perhaps Kju's Proper fixes) has he had to do? Most 'normal' people don't have the time or inclination after having spent $30 or more on a game: they expect it to work. They have the right to not have to show initiative or intelligence to get it to work (discuss :p).

-Enjoyability of single player out of the box.

What proportion of players never download a mission or open up the editor? How much enjoyment did this kind of player get out of Harvest Red?

-Enjoyability/longevity of multiplayer.

There was a relatively short period after A2's release when you could find coop games playing missions with specific objectives and TvT games with plenty of players online (without being a member of a clan). After that, your only option was to join a clan or play Domination/Warfare. Everyone is aware of why it is undesirable to have a community that only plays Domi, but Warfare has a few problems of its own: it takes hours to finish a match, often the server slows down to a crawl during this time and the game mode is wide open to griefers.

Obviously, it is hard to suggest that Bis control the MP community in some way, and perhaps this situation with the state of MP has no viable solution.

When you look at how many otherwise sane and rational gamers had, before the release of DR, convinced themselves CM were going to release a game as good as the Arma series, that remedied its flaws, it would be daft to say 'there's nothing wrong with Arma - the problem is gamers today.'

Arma 2 is great for us. As a marketable product, though, it has significant flaws. At least it generally gets the respect it deserves these days - PC players generally think of it as how a release can take proper advantage of the platform, even if they have never played it themselves.

[ben_s 11]

I think, ArmA II is really for those people who take the time to make the game work in the way they want it to. Such as, Mods, setup and missions. Learning how things work.

Myself, I've still not gotten to grips with the command system. The command radial system of say, BF2 or DR is much more intuative. Letting you command very easily. But its not very expansive. Which is a catch-22 scenario if you only have 1 of them.

BIS' games are really made for long term, letting the community take over how the game is played. I think, thats the beauty of this game. It's all the communities work now. It's the game we helped create, and the game we want to play. As such, This is what keeps games like this a long life.

For me, Multiplayer isn't enjoyable on ArmA II, The most obvious reason being without joining a squad or clan for ArmA II, its just random servers where its chaos. And its not really much of a commuity there. I much prefer COOP with friends or Singleplayer scenarios.

I see the ArmA series as a canvas, with good ideas from BIS emplanted. But its the community that are really the ones who paint the picture, with what mods, games and missions they create, and the community itself. I think, its just the nature of the game that leads to this. Mature gamers, playing together and helping eachother out and having some fun, tactical games.

[andersson 285]

Thank you for your answer Ben_S :)

Yes, the atmosphere I agree on, but I put that to missions and campaigns (+ it was the first experience). But I fail to see where CM made any difference as they only sold it (yes they own the sounds from the missions and campaigns) but the missions themself are bis.

The "coincident" is that it was during the OFP era, I dont think it would have been another product if any other company sold it. BIS started the OFP adventure with two (?) other companies before CM helped them sell it (if i remember right..)

@Richey79

If we talk about the weaknesses in arma(2) because of command system and MP I guess you dont remember OFP. Its the same command system but today we have more ways to control our AI. I guess you also have forgotten how bad MP was in OFP? No JIP, quite bad code (in the beginning really shit, OFP wasnt built for MP it was added later).

The rest is up to missionmakers and what we, the players, want to do. I dont remember much vanilla MP activity that was any good "back in the days", imo BIS is better today regardig MP support.

Unless you by OFP mean OFP:DR...? Then I guess you are on topic and I should shut up :D

[ben_s 11]

Why don't you surprise us all then and upload some of your gameplay footage. :blahblah2:

I recorded some footage for ya, But FRAPS reduces the firefights to 10-15 FPS.

I will still post it if you really want me to. ;)

-

I think the reason games arn't how they used to be is this 'war on terror' that has got worse over the last 10 years, Games are now to depict enemies as 'the bad guys', and so games are built around that. I don't think CWC really tried to depict russians as 'bad guys', more of an opponent. And so, the game was built like that. Games today, just try to show insurgents, taliban and russians as 'bad guys' and so, overpower the US troops (because US is awsome, durr) and underpower the enemies (because all non-US guys are idiots that can't even use AK's properly, durr)

Edited December 18, 2010 by Ben_S

[Baff1 0]

I guess you also have forgotten how bad MP was in OFP? No JIP, quite bad code (in the beginning really shit, OFP wasnt built for MP it was added later).

Here's the thing...

it still is shit.

The best MP experiences I've had with this series have all been in the original.

I had some fun with ArmA also. I've barely played ArmA 2 MP at all since I've owned it. Despite that this is what I bought it for.

I'll be honest with you, I've played more OpF DR MP than I have ArmA 2.

I prefer ArmA2 myself, but not many of my friends will play it with me.

Plus it costs a fortune to install it on four + machines. If I bought the software on release day, that would have been £120 for the basic, (plus another £80 for the expansion, plus another £35 for each of the two DLC's).

That's too much for me. (BAF DLC doesn't have any Co-op so thats £35 off the price, although its BAF so I love it!).

Compare that to the £20 Dragon Rising cost me. Plus the £20 the expansion is going to cost me.

£40 vs £200.

Stuff it, I'll just play ArmA2 on SP. It's much cheaper and people don't complain at me after I go to all that effort to set it up.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Baff1

[Zipper5 74]

OFP MP isn't shit. As I said before, I still play it at least once a week with friends. I liked ArmA's MP to a point, but I got burned out on it. I rarely touch Arma 2 MP anymore simply because the public experience... Is not the best. You seem to be playing with the wrong kind of people though, Baff1, if they complain to you after you put in that effort.

[Flash Thunder 10]

I can also say I had more fun on Dragon Craps Multiplayer than on Arma 2's multiplayer

something about arma 2s that makes me want to stay as far away as humanly possible from it.

if it wasnt for the editor in arma 2 it would be in the trash can to be honest.

arma 2 i cant hop into a quick and tactical game like supremacy or infiltration in DR, I just cant.

One thing that bothered the hell out of me was the interface and always spawning a Billion miles away from anything, If I wanted that kind of realism well Do I really got to say it?

This one time I spent like 20 minutes getting to an area with like 10 guys, I saw a Chinook grabbed my stinger locked on to it and guess what I didnt kill it then a second later I fell over dead all it said was FlashThunder was killed.

/rage quit

i doubt arma 3 will be any better in terms of multiplayer accessibility and enjoyment for people that dont want to spend all day messing with it.

[Zipper5 74]

Well, the multiplayer experience of Arma 2 is almost entirely dependent on mission makers and server admins. Not a whole lot BIS could do in that area unless they start imposing things on us, which wouldn't go over too well for most I don't think. :p

[Tonci87 163]

Arma 2 is best if you play within a squad or organised community!

[Perforator 10]

I recorded some footage for ya, But FRAPS reduces the firefights to 10-15 FPS.

Well then it appears that you didn't surprise anyone afterall!

We already knew that your computer is outdated and is incapable of playing ArmA2 at quality settings. Until you can play the game properly you have no justification in judging or comparing it to OFP or any other game.

[zigzag 0]

Well then it appears that you didn't surprise anyone afterall!

We already knew that your computer is outdated and is incapable of playing ArmA2 at quality settings. Until you can play the game properly you have no justification in judging or comparing it to OFP or any other game.

My computer is old and I play arma with everything on medium and low, I think the game is great and gives me the fun I want.

But that does not count because I cant play the game propely with everything on highest setting :)

[ben_s 11]

Well then it appears that you didn't surprise anyone afterall!

We already knew that your computer is outdated and is incapable of playing ArmA2 at quality settings. Until you can play the game properly you have no justification in judging or comparing it to OFP or any other game.

So because my computer cannot see the great graphics, and ends up recording at 15/20 FPS with FRAPS running at the same time. I suddenly can't have an opinion on ArmA II ? :rolleyes:

Also, whats your definition of 'properly'?

[Perforator 10]

Also, whats your definition of 'properly'?

All settings should be at least on high, ideally on max, anything less results in poor performance, and judging by your FPS ArmA2 is barely playable on your computer.

Your computer simply doesn't meet the requirements to play the game properly, it would be impossible for you to understand what it looks and feels like to engage in intense fighting in downtown Zargabad because your computer wouldn't run smoothly.Terrain detail and view distance are very important features that your computer can't process properly.

You can't judge ArmA2 until you have played it at it's full potential.

[max power 21]

When I was playing OFP, my computer couldn't run it on full settings. Am I still allowed to like it?

[Perforator 10]

When I was playing OFP, my computer couldn't run it on full settings. Am I still allowed to like it?

The discussion isn't about liking OFP, it's about justification to judge and compare ArmA2 to other games.

I shall give you a very basic yet extremely important example -

If you are playing the game with low settings then enemy troops will stick out like a sore thumb, particularly if you have the view distance on low or medium setting, but if you play the game with max settings the enemy becomes much harder to distinguish from all the content on the battlefield, camouflage and concealment become a real issue, and the enemy has a much better chance of firing off the first critical shot before you can spot them.

In the real world good camouflage and concealment can be the difference between life and death, mission success and mission failure.

The same applies for ArmA2, it can be a highly realistic military simulation if played to it's full potential.

Anyone who hasn't experienced it at it's full potential doesn't have a right to judge it.