CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[ben_s 11]

I get what you mean and can tell you why the ArmA series is not the kind of way showing the usual day of a soldier (including endless waiting in trenches). That's not what the majority of the players want - ironically while playing an authentic military simulator.

At the end of the day people meet to shoot something, not just to sit for 4 hours of guard duty or delivering food to civilians. Recently I created a supply mission (mp mode) having a CH-47 and its escort; the player has to pick up several support items on different locations and transport it to its destinations. To keep the action factor I applied several action factors of spawning insurgents, fully aware that the amount of the attacks and transport actions might not be realistic in the amount of time the mission will be done.

Oh and you don't need mods for everything ;) Just take a supply take, add some action menu entries, drive it to location X and spawn some things and you have a supply delivery. You can do whatever you want if you know how to do it. But ehm .... rhethorical question ... would this be possible in the menstruation game?

Yeah... Thats the point im getting at. Its not a simulator by terms since noone really wants it to be. They want to run about shooting. Which defines it as a shooter.

Anyway, This conversation is doing my head in and getting all complex.

[Deadfast 43]

Yeah... Thats the point im getting at. Its not a simulator by terms since noone really wants it to be. They want to run about shooting. Which defines it as a shooter.

The genre is not dictated by how the players play the game but by what the game offers. Or do you really think I could start calling Arma a racing game if all I ever did was drive about Chernarus with friends?

[ben_s 11]

The genre is not dictated by how the players play the game but by what the game offers. Or do you really think I could start calling Arma a racing game if all I ever did was drive about Chernarus with friends?

I think you missed the point. People want to run about shooting things, so we got a shooter game. That gives us the guns, tanks, jeeps, explosions, jets and helis.

But we didn't get all the simulator properties of endless ammount of patrols, building base of operations, creating roadblocks, handing out aid and food to the civilians, spending time in towns gaining respect. (I mean the features to let us do this within the editor or real-time dynamic game world)

We didn't want that, so ArmA doesn't have it. So its a shooter, its more in the reigon of a combat "shooter sim" or something. but the point is, its not got the tools in it to be a proper military simulator. Like VBS or upwards.

Thats the point im trying to make here.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

They want to run about shooting. Which defines it as a shooter.

Not neccessarily true! It's about shooting but if it means taking 30 minutes until everyone is in position for a clean strike without casualties before event X takes place I call that very very far from a simple shooter. Just take Counter-Strike as a complete opposite example. A few hours ago I had a good coop game; fleeing from an island having lots of russian patrols around. It took us almost an hour until we got half the way to the target zone, always deciding if to shoot or not, checking for enemies in all directions. It wasn't boring although we had not many kills.

So it's not about shooting in general that can attract the player. I guess it's the fear in combat situations that's everyone looking for. The feat of getting hunted not beeing able to defend itself while trying to get in a better combat situation (by looking for better cover, better weapons, vehicles, support, ...) during a mission.

But getting shot 10 times in the head and then do a magic-healing with a kit? No way! :nono:

[ben_s 11]

Not neccessarily true! It's about shooting but if it means taking 30 minutes until everyone is in position for a clean strike without casualties before event X takes place I call that very very far from a simple shooter. Just take Counter-Strike as a complete opposite example. A few hours ago I had a good coop game; fleeing from an island having lots of russian patrols around. It took us almost an hour until we got half the way to the target zone, always deciding if to shoot or not, checking for enemies in all directions. It wasn't boring although we had not many kills.

So it's not about shooting in general that can attract the player. I guess it's the fear in combat situations that's everyone looking for. The feat of getting hunted not beeing able to defend itself while trying to get in a better combat situation (by looking for better cover, better weapons, vehicles, support, ...) during a mission.

But getting shot 10 times in the head and then do a magic-healing with a kit? No way! :nono:

Yeah, Read my last post. I cleared it up a bit.

But yeah, we want to be sneaking off an island, covered in russians without getting nailed. The fear, the anticipation on whats going to happen next. Does a patrol come down that road as you cross... etc

Its not the "now you got toilet duty" lines that make you buy a game.

Obviously, taking it a huge extreame there.

[bascule42 10]

I really think Ben is "velvet trolling" with this one.

[[frl]myke 14]

The most realistic military simulator is already in the works at Infinity ward. It is called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3.

Watch this footage taken at Infinity Ward Studios:

A5tRNs2X5Q4

[Deathstruck 375]

There is a guy in the comments saying that CoD is the most realistic war game?

[maddogx 13]

There is a guy in the comments saying that CoD is the most realistic war game?

Dude, it's YouTube. Were you expecting intelligent conversation in the comments?

[ben_s 11]

I really think Ben is "velvet trolling" with this one.

What do you mean?

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

Myke;1752528']

Watch this footage taken at Infinity Ward Studios:

Toilet duty' date=' eh? :p Even that you can get on ArmA II :p

[[frl]myke 14]

Although i know it is not represantative, i find the xfire statistics really amusing:

ArmA 2:

Rank #71

Xfire users playing per day: 553

Minutes played per day: 77687

FPDR:

Rank #271

Xfire users playing per day: 205

Minutes played per day: 14063

OFP:CWC:

Rank #478

Xfire users playing per day: 46

Minutes played per day: 3210

Speaking about "success", Mr. Lenton....

[max power 21]

LOL @ the semantic argument.

Let's engage that for a second, shall we?

Ben_S claims it's a combat simulator because not all aspects of the military are represented. And yet, as a combat simulator, not all aspects of combat are represented. Based on that logic, this distinction is arbitrary.

Ben_S claims it's a shooter because people want to shoot and run around, yet it's possible to play and have quite a lot of fun, and fulfil the object of the game as a utility helicopter pilot or other battle taxi driver where no shooting is involved. This is not possible in other shooter games, sidescrolling ones to FPSs, old to recent, from Silpheed to Modern Warfare 2. By the definition of the genre, if it is an FPS, it is not ONLY an FPS and therefore is not limited to only that genre.

[Pulverizer 1]

Myke;1752561']

FP DR:

Rank #271

Xfire users playing per day: 205

Minutes played per day: 14063

That's actually pretty good for a quick console port with a rather poor multiplayer aspect and almost non-existant modding/mission making community. I would've expected much worse at this point, because it lacks simesque longevity and is instead more focused on the linear single player experience.

[ben_s 11]

LOL @ the semantic argument.

Let's engage that for a second, shall we?

Ben_S claims it's a combat simulator because not all aspects of the military are represented. And yet, as a combat simulator, not all aspects of combat are represented. Based on that logic, this distinction is arbitrary.

Ben_S claims it's a shooter because people want to shoot and run around, yet it's possible to play and have quite a lot of fun, and fulfil the object of the game as a utility helicopter pilot or other battle taxi driver where no shooting is involved. This is not possible in other shooter games, sidescrolling ones to FPSs, old to recent, from Silpheed to Modern Warfare 2. By the definition of the genre, if it is an FPS, it is not ONLY an FPS and therefore is not limited to only that genre.

Which is why its a stupid arguement. And I have no idea why I started it.

its a mix of a combat sim, tactical shooter with some aspects from a mil-sim. ArmA Doesn't really have a genre ... Its a confusing topic.

[[frl]myke 14]

ArmA Doesn't really have a genre ...

...ArmA is a genre.

[maddogx 13]

Myke;1752584']...ArmA is a genre.

Word.

(There' date=' that was my [i']black[/i] moment of the day. Time to go to bed...)

[andersson 285]

Not only confusing, OT aswell :D Should we move back to RR? If theres anything to say about it?

[maddogx 13]

Not only confusing, OT aswell :D Should we move back to RR? If theres anything to say about it?

I hear it is more "focused" than DR. Define that for us, Ben. ;)

[max power 21]

Which is why its a stupid arguement. And I have no idea why I started it.

its a mix of a combat sim, tactical shooter with some aspects from a mil-sim. ArmA Doesn't really have a genre ... Its a confusing topic.

It is a combined arms sim sandbox game.

Like Ultima 7 was a fantasy rpg sandbox game.

[ben_s 11]

Myke;1752584']...ArmA is a genre.

Guess thats the best way of putting it. :rolleyes:

[max power 21]

Guess thats the best way of putting it. :rolleyes:

No it's not. The reason we're having this argument was because something TemplarGFX said on the other forums to justify fpdr 's existence under the name OFP. You're going through this whole song and dance to avoid calling ArmA 2 a sim for some reason. ArmA 2 is a sim game, OFP: DR is not. If ArmA 2 is a genre of it's own, OFP is in the same genre. FPDR is not. I think most people believed that OFP was a sim game until FPDR came out. Now to avoid admitting they've lost something, they try to revise history and rewrite definitions.

[nodunit 397]

I think you missed the point. People want to run about shooting things, so we got a shooter game. That gives us the guns, tanks, jeeps, explosions, jets and helis.

But we didn't get all the simulator properties of endless ammount of patrols, building base of operations, creating roadblocks, handing out aid and food to the civilians, spending time in towns gaining respect. (I mean the features to let us do this within the editor or real-time dynamic game world)

We didn't want that, so ArmA doesn't have it. So its a shooter, its more in the reigon of a combat "shooter sim" or something. but the point is, its not got the tools in it to be a proper military simulator. Like VBS or upwards.

Thats the point im trying to make here.

Yes and no, there were several missions in Operation Flashpoint where you stood guard duty or had downtime..one mission involved you driving across a countryside to a location to set up base camp, then pack up and move out to another location and another to move supplies.

Personally I think things like that is what made the game, sitting on the island at night, hearing of a possible spetznaz sneaking it and looking around while alert as well as the missions where its far wiser to sneak your way through and past (in some cases you have no choice) and the driving around without fighting. I'd have to say driving the truck while listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YunE-yvn-JE&feature=related is one of the most memorable things.

I'm going to be blasphemous for a moment, I think that Cold War Crisis, the work of art that it is, was a combination of both BIS and CM, not just one or the other..afterall we have had spritual successors but have they exactly been like CWC?

The campaign lengths are far shorter, you hardly see the variety of mission types, and the character personalities are by comparison very narrow. ( James Gastovski, Robert Hammer, Victor Troska and David Armstrong, hell even Blake) The humor went from a bit amusing to childish.. "She's nice and warm sir, just he way you like her." "speaking of stink what's that smell, you filled your shorts? I don't know, here you want to take a look?" To "Thats not what your sister said" and

I facepalmed when Herrera needed translation for the one Takistani local whom was obviously speaking understandable english

One of the absolute best things about CWC is the memorable characters and how they experienced a wide range of emotions, they actually seemed human

While BIS may have the engine and are advancing to make it, and CM has the name, both are fragmented and likely needed eachother (at the time) to make what was this materpiece, I personally think we will never see anything with the depth that CWC had for some time.

Edited September 19, 2010 by NodUnit

[GRS 10]

Hi troll, nice day for trolling yeah?

See what I mean. I post one negative thing here and I'm suddenly a troll. It's threads like this that are why I usually stay off the forums. Over there is a bunch of sheep and over here there is a number of elitists on their high horses making this forum look like a bunch of gossiping school girls. I don't care for either.

I'm not "trolling," I'm saying it like I see it.

Let it die already, doesn't look like it needs your help doing that anyways. Go play some ArmA 2 or something. Or just continue, it's occasionally laughable.

[Ragingbear505 10]

See what I mean. I post one negative thing here and I'm suddenly a troll. It's threads like this that are why I usually stay off the forums. Over there is a bunch of sheep and over here there is a number of elitists on their high horses making this forum look like a bunch of gossiping school girls. I don't care for either.

I'm not "trolling," I'm saying it like I see it.

Let it die already, doesn't look like it needs your help doing that anyways. Go play some ArmA 2 or something. Or just continue, it's occasionally laughable.

No. You said something people didn't like and they confronted you about it. Gossiping high schools girls would just get butthurt and call you mean and ban you from the forum.