AI Discussion (dev branch)

Cover finding when suppressed could be under development still ? My post was mainly to highlight that cover is part of the feature set for the DLC

Cover finding when suppressed could be under development still ? My post was mainly to highlight that cover is part of the feature set for the DLC

Well I hope your right. And it probably is being developed for the long long term. But My understanding of "ai will better react to incoming projectiles and take cover" is: ai will now perform its um, poor, cover finding techniques when bullets passby. Rather than before when passing bullets wouldn't trigger the cover finding techniques. The cover finding isn't any different, just when it is triggered.

But maybe I am being pessimistic. I hope so. It would be awesome for ai to better use cover. And with the new resting surface detection and deployment animations I think there is alot of potential to make ai able to better detect and really hug cover. Twould be awesome. But frankly I don't think its in the scope of marksman.

Regardless the suppression stuff is a great improvement already! Though I hope they can fix the ai's extreme inaccarucy when suppressed before it hits stable.

Experiencing something weird on devbranch,

AI units with hostiles nearby will only move less than one step in combat/stealth mode if on pretty much any surface that's not off road/grass.

They'll go prone, wait a few seconds, get up, move about 10cm, go prone again, rinse and repeat.

Very weird to watch because once they'll get off road/concrete surface they start to move several metres before going prone again.

For strange reasons it's looking just fine if they're only in combat mode, with no hostiles around.

Anyone else getting the same?

Cheers

Autonomous guns show signs of extremely high dispersion, I encountered this several times already.

Since AI seems to be be in control of autonomous guns this belongs here I guess: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=23311

Edit: The more I test this, the more it seems the autonomous AI seems to be affected by suppression as well, and, as mentioned earlier in this thread, suffer from the maximum possible dispersion, aka "can't hit the broad side of a barn" when it's being shot at.

And it probably is being developed for the long long term.

True that

Though I hope they can fix the ai's extreme inaccarucy when suppressed before it hits stable.

Should be fixed nao

Oukej, I just want to thank you and all the guys programming AI that you took this action and started to work on it again more visibly. Very excited to see what comes next. Cheers!

@oukej

Did that bug also affect autonomous guns? They're still highly inaccurate under fire, even after today's patch. I haven't tested normal AIs yet.

True that

Should be fixed nao

Sweeet!

Several tweaks and balancing. Thanks for your feedback! Situations where AI's were few meters away from each other, couldn't hit and depleted all ammo should be history now.

• Fixed AI firing too much or even only off the target. A suppressed AI has much higher probability to miss the target, but that doesn't mean it can't hit it at all
  
• Increased the time AI needs to recover from being suppressed.
  
• AI can occasionally suffer a lower rate of fire when pinned down.
  
• AI should also usually take some time before opening fire after turning (depends on the target's distance)
  

Good stuff. Still think Its a bit too difficult to suppress with 5,56 and even 6.5's. You have to keep a very high rate of fire up and be putting your bullets within 2 metres of them. Such close shots should be more effective, regardless of calibre.

Also I am not a big fan of the decreased rate of fire when pinned down. Basically you unload on an ai and he just sits there and stares at you for a second or so. It looks silly/glitchy, especially when you are within 150m of the ai. If he were seeking cover or something it would be good, but he is just sitting there. He should still be firing. If anything, assuming he had no where to hide, being under fire would make him more trigger happy as he shoot's in panic.

However, for longer range engagements, I can see this mechanic being more acceptable. If it could be made so distance to the shooter effects how often ai suffer the ROF penalty (or tweaked so more distance is required (200m+)), I think it would look and work much better.

Keep up the good work devs!

Also I am not a big fan of the decreased rate of fire when pinned down. Basically you unload on an ai and he just sits there and stares at you for a few seconds. It looks silly/glitchy, especially when you are within 150m of the ai. If he were seeking cover or something it would be good, but he is just sitting there. He should still be firing. If anything, assuming he had no where to hide, being under fire would make him more trigger happy as he shoot's in panic.

This.

While decreased rate of fire offers a sturdy game mechanic, the lack of feedback as observed by a player only draws attention to "how dumb the AI is"-- where in reality it is the opposite. Reduced fire rate can come from many things; low server FPS, AI not having spotted the player, or simply low ammunition-- all of which are invisible to a player.

To make the suppression mechanic DISTINCT the state should induce an immediately obvious response:

An animation,

A sound,

Or other distinct behaviour.

-k

This.

While decreased rate of fire offers a sturdy game mechanic, the lack of feedback as observed by a player only draws attention to "how dumb the AI is"-- where in reality it is the opposite. Reduced fire rate can come from many things; low server FPS, AI having spotted the player, or simply low ammunition-- all of which are invisible to a player.

To make the suppression mechanic DISTINCT the state should induce an immediately obvious response:

An animation,

A sound,

Or other distinct behaviour.

-k

Exactly, guys. Proper AI logic is one thing. Believable, non-immersion-breaking visual feedback is another thing.

If it could be made so distance to the shooter effects how often ai suffer the ROF penalty (or tweaked so more distance is required (200m+)), I think it would look and work much better.

That should already be true to some extent (AI keeps firing on close targets even if it's aimed quite off the target, while it may decide not to do so and wait for a better aim if the target is distant).

Also you are definitely right about the behavior. The RoF is already something that goes with it and beyond just altering AI aiming accuracy.

I would like to add my 3 pence. AI suppression should have a switch, per unit would be great, like fatigue, so you can enable disable it

I would like to add my 3 pence. AI suppression should have a switch, per unit would be great, like fatigue, so you can enable disable it

Check disableAI ;) (should already work in the Dev Branch)

Scripting get/set commands for suppression are planned too.

Check disableAI ;) (should already work in the Dev Branch)

Ninja'd in documentation of new behavior components

Scripting get/set commands for suppression are planned too.

Hah, telepathy...

Oukej, I just want to thank you and all the guys programming AI that you took this action and started to work on it again more visibly. Very excited to see what comes next. Cheers!

+1

Scanning thru today's log and it looks like some great improvements!

/KC

@oukej

Did that bug also affect autonomous guns? They're still highly inaccurate under fire, even after today's patch. I haven't tested normal AIs yet.

This isn't connected to suppression. For some reason the unmanned turret has a completely broken skill (and therefore also dispersion) after it has been assembled from the backpacks (not if placed in the editor as a whole). We will look into it.

Check disableAI ;) (should already work in the Dev Branch)

Scripting get/set commands for suppression are planned too.

Whoa! Awesome. :cool:

Check disableAI ;) (should already work in the Dev Branch)

Ninja'd in documentation of new behavior components

Scripting get/set commands for suppression are planned too.

Awesome, thanks for adding that!

Is it possible to do the same for Formations considering the enableAIfeature (introduced by Suma in 2009) command?

Right now it's a command that's working on the entire game, so if you disable it it works on any mission that's being played as far as I have observed.

Would be nice to have it as a group related command, so you can have groups staying in formation a bit better than the default soft formation mode.

Cheers

So there's going to be a data lock. Is "AI running to cover when suppressed" and "AI telling other AI groups about enemies" still going to be added?

•Added: AI Suppression commands: getSuppression, setSuppression

Awesome!

•Fixed: Weapon attachments properly affect AI aiming

Does this mean ai with iron sights will be less accurate than those with magnification? Sounds promising!

So there's going to be a data lock. Is "AI running to cover when suppressed" and "AI telling other AI groups about enemies" still going to be added?

Doubt its gonna be improved any more before/for 1.42.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22403

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22404

these 2 requests would be awesome :)

I'm still witnessing many cases where AI are getting stuck in buildings and stuck getting into vehicles. It completely ruins some missions. I hope this stuff doesn't make it into stable.

I'm still witnessing many cases where AI are getting stuck in buildings and stuck getting into vehicles. It completely ruins some missions. I hope this stuff doesn't make it into stable.

Try to make reproducible Feedback tracker reports to see improvements.

Is it possible to do the same for Formations considering the enableAIfeature (introduced by Suma in 2009) command?

Right now it's a command that's working on the entire game, so if you disable it it works on any mission that's being played as far as I have observed.

Would be nice to have it as a group related command, so you can have groups staying in formation a bit better than the default soft formation mode.

Could you pls put it into the discussion on the wiki page?

Does this mean ai with iron sights will be less accurate than those with magnification? Sounds promising!

Sry, not in this case. This was mainly about using a correct zeroing. But a lower accuracy with sights without magnification should be achievable via aiDispersionCoefX/Y properties in the fire mode class of a weapon. If you find an odd situation in the game regarding this let us know, we can try to improve it.

AI are getting stuck in buildings and stuck getting into vehicles.

One ticket is here. If you have a reliable repro please don't hesitate to share it ASAP so we can address it before releasing stable.

Sry, not in this case. This was mainly about using a correct zeroing. But a lower accuracy with sights without magnification should be achievable via aiDispersionCoefX/Y properties in the fire mode class of a weapon. If you find an odd situation in the game regarding this let us know, we can try to improve it.