ARMA 2 (OA) : DLC discussion thread

[jw custom 56]

There's a lot of people who will refuse to buy the DLC.

Then blame them for being "i only want stuff for free" persons, but i don't think there's gonna be a lot of people in here who is not buying it. Im confident in BIS makes the DLC content worth buying.

But sure there will always be some stubborn people around who won't buy it because they feel it's a right to get it for free.

To be honest, I'd rather pay $50 instead of $35 for OA if it means I would be getting free dlc along the road.

Then there would be people screaming about that, there will always be something wrong.

Also what happens if BIS releases "British weapons pack" and then some modder comes along and says, screw that I'll make a close version of that DLC... does he get banned from the forums/community for not wanting to pay for that DLC?

I don't think thats a problem as long as they use their own models etc. same as it is now.

[MrStregatto 31]

I woul only add one thing.

That If the payable DLCs were like OA, so i can spent some euros

for that.

Otherwise not.

[W0lle 1047]

I'm sorry, but these paid DLCs are just going to cause more issues for MP. Some people will have x pack, some won't have any. There's a lot of people who will refuse to buy the DLC. To be honest, I'd rather pay $50 instead of $35 for OA if it means I would be getting free dlc along the road.

It's is exactly the same at other games with DLC no? And from what I can tell these games are still alive and people playing them. And it's no different now with the addons so what's that fuss all about? You simply can't expect to have everything for free for the rest of your life.

Also what happens if BIS releases "British weapons pack" and then some modder comes along and says, screw that I'll make a close version of that DLC... does he get banned from the forums/community for not wanting to pay for that DLC?

Have we ever banned someone for making a close version of something BIS has made already in the past? From what I can tell no, so please stop talking such crap just to drag future DLC into the mud. :rolleyes:

[dm 9]

It's is exactly the same at other games with DLC no? And from what I can tell these games are still alive and people playing them. And it's no different now with the addons so what's that fuss all about? You simply can't expect to have everything for free for the rest of your life.

Have we ever banned someone for making a close version of something BIS has made already in the past? From what I can tell no, so please stop talking such crap just to drag future DLC into the mud. :rolleyes:

My answer remains the same:

All you want is for it all to be free so that you can get more toys to play with.

You're not given what you want, so you make a huge fuss about it to try and get your way. As a community you've been spoilt over the last decade by endless groups of tallented people giving you quality content for free, and you've all gotten too used to it. Now that BI needs some extra revenue and suggests that the next stuff the release might not be free, you're coming up with crappy excuses left right and center to make it sound bad.

People are just fussing because the gravy train might be going away.

Although all this crap about "payed DLC is going to ruin modding" is utter bullshit.

just a bit wary. When I saw in the faq that they were not going to release any more MLODs I naturaly put 2 and 2 together and thought that they were of sqeezing out the modding side of things.

If they revoked O2 and visitor functionality, then I'd be worried. The simple fact that they dont want to release the source data for their entire content, and thus revenue stream, is nothing out of the ordinary. Are any of the CoD, Stalker, Obivion, Fallout, crysis, farcry 2, or any other recent game source models available? Not so much. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not much into modding any more, so not keeping my finger on the pulse)

I think far too much fuss is being made by people with no clue about what is going to happen in the future. Unless there's been a sale on at walmart for crystal balls recently...

I definitely think it boils down to people being greedy and spoiled: "it used to be free, so why isnt it now!"

[mr burns 131]

case DLC_hooray:

{

Mind you Bohemia, lets get this straight, if we all buy this DLC we do expect the money to be pumped straight into some serious re-coding of the engine for Arma 3.. right? But you can buy a couple of treats for yourselves, just no gold-plated rolls royce... ;)

The only thing I would play for in DLC is for something that RADICALLY changes the game engine ... something LIKE proper thermal vision (that is coming with OA).

};

^^ I´m all for it. If DLC stands for real quality content the community cannot do theirselves, or overcoming hurdles in the OFP engine that stand since about 10 years, go for it!

case DLC_bah:

{

Anything that equals QG, i.e. a simple modfolder burned on CD with a price tag on it. The community is potent enough for us not to be in the need for overpriced Booster Packs which carry the dogma of splitting an otherwise widely spread enough community even further.

};

^^ Not a good idea. Period.

All you want is for it all to be free so that you can get more toys to play with.

People are just fussing because the gravy train might be going away.

So you´re really convinced that everybody against DLC is a greedy bastard? :D

In my case, be assured i really am, but i´m not making a fuss because there might be content i like and dont want to pay for - those times are over, i can live quite well with only BWMod and one or the other island addon here and there. The times when i tried each & every addon are gone. Hence i don´t need any DLC in the first place.

[Jelliz 10]

I definitely think it boils down to people being greedy and spoiled: "it used to be free, so why isnt it now!"

Yep.

We all know that BIS delivers top-notch content. Why not pay for that and support the developers?

Some people have been burned by the DLC businessmodel of other firms, but those who have been around since OFP, knows that the free stuff that BIS has given us totally rawks.

And think of how much more content BIS can provide if their PayDLC businessmodel is a success. We cant expect BIS to produce new content for Arma 2 in the future if they cant profit from it.

But anyways, they have said that they will also release some free content aswell. So that should please some people.

[kremator 1064]

How about a list of ggodies from VBS2 that we could get in DLC form?

That would be a good start.

[dm 9]

So you´re really convinced that everybody against DLC is a greedy bastard?

Pretty much.

All the arguments against pay DLC are so thin CERN might have uses for them when splitting atoms.

Splitting the community: well, its already pretty fragmented. Those who want to play together will get the same content. Joining random servers has always sucked in BIS' games because thats not what they're really about. Theres a reason groups like shacktac have lasted so long - because their format works for the game.

Because its always been free: wow, yeah, if that one needs explaining then you probably shouldn't be allowed a credit card to make the online purchase with anyway.

Because its bad in other games: Yeah, well BIS aren't other developers now are they. 10 years of constant patches and (so far) free content proves that. Things have to change - the economy isnt as good as it used to be, and BI needs some more money. Wouldn't you rather pay for some extra content and keep one of your faveourite developers afloat than have them whore themselves out in some other [probably worse] way, or go under completely...

[W0lle 1047]

How about a list of ggodies from VBS2 that we could get in DLC form?

That would be a good start.

The VBS2 content development is funded by the military contractors. What makes you think that content paid by them will be available in a game?

[dm 9]

^ I'm glad you said it so I didnt have to :D

[hamm 10]

All the arguments against pay DLC are so thin CERN might have uses for them when splitting atoms.

Because its bad in other games: Yeah, well BIS aren't other developers now are they. 10 years of constant patches and (so far) free content proves that. Things have to change - the economy isnt as good as it used to be, and BI needs some more money. Wouldn't you rather pay for some extra content and keep one of your faveourite developers afloat than have them whore themselves out in some other [probably worse] way, or go under completely...

It's not about "greedy, free or fragmenting the community". It's about possible reprecussions to modding. As I've said before it all depends on how BIS protects the DLC content, which could mean anything from a simple keycheck on activation to great limitations on modding the DLC content.

[mr burns 131]

Splitting the community: well, its already pretty fragmented. Those who want to play together will get the same content. Joining random servers has always sucked in BIS' games because thats not what they're really about. Theres a reason groups like shacktac have lasted so long - because their format works for the game.

Like i said, ppl can buy dlc until their teeth turn black, doesn´t bother me.

But we already do have enough of - "Those who want to play together will get the same content" - it´s true, so you´re fully right with it. But it does not help the newguy who comes in and simply wants to play some nice MP games. It´s hard enough now, what will you tell those guys when there´s gazillions of dlc?

That´s not the only reason against dlc, we both agree that the mp community is split enough as it is right now, and chances that we´re going to see the big times (a.k.a. OFP) ever again are low. But the community is struggling, willing to keep it alive. Now putting DLC on top of that looks like "oh fuck it, let´s just sink the whole tub - we´re done with it" :(

[dm 9]

It's about possible reprecussions to modding.

Uhh.. None?

Regular modding would be unchanged. The config, rvmat, p3d, pbo and paa formats arent going to be wildly different, if at all. And you still have access to all the tools needed to make addons.

As I've said before it all depends on how BIS protects the DLC content, which could mean anything from a simple keycheck on activation to great limitations on modding the DLC content.

Ah, so its all about the fact that you might not be able to rip apart the data to make reskins or config edits?

Well, aside from the config edits, I dont see it as much of a problem. So people wont be able to reskin the content or make small changes to the configs easily. Its not that big a deal. Like I said, its not like they are taking away O2 or visitor.

Anyway, allowing the paid-for content to be modable is just asking for people to release it elsewhere for free. So yes, it means that any DLC content would be "off limits" to moders, but its certainly not the "death of modding" that everyone is making it out to be.

You'll still be able to make addons, you'll still be able to make reskins, config edits or whatever. You'll just not be able to do it with the DLC content.

Edited June 13, 2010 by DM

[jw custom 56]

what will you tell those guys when there´s gazillions of dlc?

You really think BIS will pump out pay DLC?

My guess would be 1 maybe 2 DLC packages that would require payment, it's not BIS thats greedy!

What do we tell the new comers now, we tell them: You need to dl ACE which opens up 5000 thousand new questions.

[hamm 10]

So yes, it means that any DLC content would be "off limits" to moders, but its certainly not the "death of modding" that everyone is making it out to be.

You'll still be able to make addons, you'll still be able to make reskins, config edits or whatever. You'll just not be able to do it with the DLC content.

Never said it would be the death of modding! But it's still something to think about. What if someone finds a way to repack the DLC content into a .pbo and distributes it, as a pirated mod? How will BIS react then? Which makes me think there probably won't be any protection on the DLC, if BIS want to maintain it's very healthy modding community.

There are obvious downsides to locked content (DLC, if they go for that sort of protection) and open content (the game itself). Not being able to touch the DLC from a modding standpoint might turn some people off of it, it's a situation we'd have never seen before (in this community).

[jw custom 56]

What if someone finds a way to repack the DLC content into a .pbo and distributes it, as a pirated mod? How will BIS react then?

The same way as they do now, zero tolerance on piracy!

[dm 9]

But it does not help the newguy who comes in and simply wants to play some nice MP games. It´s hard enough now, what will you tell those guys when there´s gazillions of dlc?

This is very true. But at the same time I cant see that every server will get every (or any) DLC?

Take BF2 for example: theres original BF2, BF2:SF, BF2:EF, BF2:AF and various versions of project reality. And there are still servers for ALL versions running - I know because I played on one of each recently. (Yes, I appreciate that BF2 was a lot more mainstream than A2 ever was, but its beside the point: that even though there are 2353453 versions of it, you can still get a game of pretty much any version, even 5 years later.)

That´s not the only reason against dlc, we both agree that the mp community is split enough as it is right now, and chances that we´re going to see the big times (a.k.a. OFP) ever again are low. But the community is struggling, willing to keep it alive. Now putting DLC on top of that looks like "oh fuck it, let´s just sink the whole tub - we´re done with it" :(

I've always respected your opinions Burns, but I really cant agree with you on that last point.

They've made a lot of effort to improve the addon/mod management in OA (or so we're told) so hopefully it will be a lot easier to get things sync'd up to play online.

There are certainly a lot of much worse choices BI could have made at this point. I think the idea of DLC that features some units, vehicles and a "mini-campaign" could be quite awesome. So it might mean that some servers missions might be unplayable by people online. But again, its not like they're ruining the ability all together.

[Jelliz 10]

What if someone finds a way to repack the DLC content into a .pbo and distributes it, as a pirated mod? How will BIS react then?

Well im pretty sure the big community sites like armaholic and armedassault.info wont host it. Which leaves torrents, and pretty much every pc-game can be downloaded via illegal torrents. How would the DLC be any different?

And BIS can act according to the EULA.

[W0lle 1047]

Never said it would be the death of modding! But it's still something to think about. What if someone finds a way to repack the DLC content into a .pbo and distributes it, as a pirated mod? How will BIS react then? Which makes me think there probably won't be any protection on the DLC, if BIS want to maintain it's very healthy modding community.

If they are able to get a hold of him they surely will sue the sh*t out of him, and for sure the person will face a permanent ban here.

Of course the paid DLC will be protected (I presume encryption similiar to VBS2), otherwise they don't even need to bother releasing paid content.

Yes it might indeed turn those people off who are just using the already made content by BI, make a few modifications and "et voila here's my shiny new addon".

The modding tools are still available, people can still create every content they want. It's just that in case of paid DLC content they have to make the models from scratch which actually is a good thing because it might give some people an idea how much work it actually is to create new content.

[hamm 10]

Well im pretty sure the big community sites like armaholic and armedassault.info wont host it. Which leaves torrents, and pretty much every pc-game can be downloaded via illegal torrents. How would the DLC be any different?

And BIS can act according to the EULA.

The base Operation Arrowhead game will probably feature FADE protection which (I think?) hasn't been cracked yet. Pirating DLC for OA would be much easier since, if it's repacked into an .pbo, you can treat it pretty much like a mod, and anyone that owns the game could pirate it easily instead of buying it for $10.

^^ @Wolle: What's VBS2's protection like? I'm interested.

[namman2 0]

i dont see any problem , i mean you could treat the DLC as it was never there and creat your own

[mr burns 131]

Take BF2 for example...

errr, since when do we want to be like BF2? :D

They've made a lot of effort to improve the addon/mod management in OA (or so we're told) so hopefully it will be a lot easier to get things sync'd up to play online.

There are certainly a lot of much worse choices BI could have made at this point. I think the idea of DLC that features some units, vehicles and a "mini-campaign" could be quite awesome. So it might mean that some servers missions might be unplayable by people online. But again, its not like they're ruining the ability all together.

Maybe i over-exaggerated a little bit, only for i still want to play the game and don´t like seeing it hitting a stalemate sooner rather than later.

If there´s going to be better mod support, fine. We need that!

EW was great, but then again i don´t think it´d been as successful if they released it via steam for 3.99$ - that being said, it´s not all over 'omgskyisfalling' - i´d just rather see ArmA aging peacefully & in honor

[NoRailgunner 0]

Both free and paid DLC is planned for A2OA. It will be distributed through different online channels. We've always given a lot of content to our community for free, however, we would like to see if there is interest from our users to fund development of higher quality and more complex packages. Fundamentally, the situation of the PC market in general, and sales of our products in particular, limits our ability to produce new content funded by the income from sales of the core game alone, as we have done in the past.

Isnt it better to discuss here about which content is wanted for free and for paid DLC?

I guess that BIS devs are more interested reading a well structured and readable "DLC wishlist for free and paid content" from A2OA players. Of course without big discussions/drama - plain and simple. Maybe a moderator can create such a sticky thread: "DLC wishlist for free and paid content - NO discussion"? ;):)

[mattxr 9]

Isnt it better to discuss here about which content is wanted for free and for paid DLC?

I guess that BIS devs are more interested reading a well structured and readable "DLC wishlist for free and paid content" from A2OA players. Of course without big discussions/drama - plain and simple. Maybe a moderator can create such a sticky thread: "DLC wishlist for free and paid content - NO discussion"? ;):)

Ive already tried this route! always ends up in one conversation! I hate DLC, I will Buy DLC! lol..

No one has the facts about anything yet so its all just pointless talk atm, BIS have stated, Free and Paid DLC so im sure the Paid DLC will most likely be big packages, look at the size of the free content for EW.

They have already stated they have new Mod Management System and Upgraded there MP side of things too and have stated in the fututre there might even be Server Addon Sync which again will make things even more easier so chill down everyone!

[jw custom 56]

EW was great, but then again i don´t think it´d been as successful if they released it via steam for 3.99$

Do you really think BIS would release something like EW on it's own as pay DLC?

Things like EW is problably what they would release as free DLC, pay DLC most likely contains more.

Isnt it better to discuss here about which content is wanted for free and for paid DLC?

Indeed, here goes my list which probably miss things:

I would pay for:

Islands

Factions

New cool features

I would not pay for:

Campaigns( i simply have no interest in them :) )

Edited June 13, 2010 by JW Custom