ARMA 2 (OA) : DLC discussion thread

[NoRailgunner 0]

Like Zipper5 said - plus its very unfriendly and strange if a company would pick some of the work from the community for their own product/game advertisements.

Nobody stops the advertisements of mission-, addon- and mod makers. Perhaps ask or help them creating good teasers/trailers! ;)

[Rolexman 10]

The DLC looks very nice, not like shitty mappacks other companies sell...

BUT, I will (or can) only buy it if alternative payments like PayPal are an option. I dont own a credit card.

Yes, the developers of this game (BIS) are 1st rate. "OFP series" was, and still is, way ahead of it's time.

[jblackrupert 14]

It's not something that the game is sold with, therefore it doesn't make a lot of sense to put money into advertising it. It would be a different story if it was sold with OA, but that's not the case.

AAS isn't something you need to download like an addon.

I wouldn't hurt to mention it when Bohemia is doing interviews and such.

Berzerk and AAS are great mods for the gamers with those interests. I enjoy those as an alternative to mission based. But where are they?

Almsot all the AAS servers switched to Combined operations. There is 3 servers left in Arma 2 and 2 of them are empty 24/7 The Russian one has people playing on it.

The Arma 2 demo is creating a lot of negative reviews of the game. Message boards, Youtube comments and such are full of bad comments

people who have the full game and know Bohemia's history of patching games are fighting an uphill battle trying to convince people that the bugs

in the demo are gone now.

Bohemia is getting painted with the same brush as the other companies that don't patch their games. That very reason is why Bohemia has to make at least

an effort to counter that negative image.

I'm hopefully getting OA in the mail tommorow so until then I don't know how things are going. Armacalypse does get 20-30 people every night.

Edited August 2, 2010 by jblackrupert

[nettrucker 142]

Well, that is because they get TV time and a plethora of other networks.

It's really amazing. You can advertise a piece of crap in a box with lights flashing, sound blaring, camera circling, and something you have to have.

Millions will buy it, and when they all get it, it's just a piece of crap in a box, sitting there, immobile and stinking up the place.

The power of advertising.

Not to mention, you know Activision is greasing up the reviewers too. That business practice has been going on for decades, centuries even.

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

I have started up an AAS server, several times. Was successful once getting about 15 people or so. Took about an hour though.

I second that. Most people are easily influenced by mass media advertising. If you could portray ArmA as the best wargame ever made and you have the funds to launch a massive advertising campaign the game would be sold in much higher numbers and the word gets spread that ArmA exists.

But you have to raise an incredible amount of money to pull of a stunt. Especially the greasing part is highly expensive.

You can't sell a game to people who don't know that it exists.

When it comes to depth and realism let the people decide if ArmA could fit their taste in wargaming. But first you need to let them know that ArmA exists.:D

kind regards

p.s. if you can brainwash people to buy crap you can brainwash people to consider ArmA to be the best war game ever made.

Edited August 2, 2010 by nettrucker
added content

[Rolexman 10]

AAS isn't something you need to download like an addon.

I wouldn't hurt to mention it when Bohemia is doing interviews and such.

Almsot all the AAS servers switched to Combined operations. There is 3 servers left in Arma 2 and 2 of them are empty 24/7 The Russian one has people playing on it.

I'm hopefully getting OA in the mail tommorow so until then I don't know how things are going. Armacalypse does get 20-30 people every night.

I've got everything. A2, A2OA, and running Combined Ops with steam. ???

I'll check again. Mainly been playing domination with 7th cav.

[jblackrupert 14]

Perhaps ask or help them creating good teasers/trailers! ;)

I have http://www.youtube.com/user/BCACatToaster (See channel comments)

The existing AAS videos tell you absolutely nothing about what its' about

just a bunch of pictures of maps but no actual gameplay showing

what goes on.

I seriously doupt people who work on AAS is going to crying foul

if Bohemia mentions it in promotional videos and such.

It really seems to me that many people here are looking for any excuse

to keep Arma hidden in the closet even though it's seriously threatening it's very existence.

But you have to raise an incredible amount of money to pull of a stunt.

Not nessesarily. There are tons of free places to advertise and promote the game. Gametrailers, Youtube....etc

I think we all remember the Media copy videos that came out previous to release..... Most of them were a freaking terrible SD, blurry, low framerate mess.

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

I've got everything. A2, A2OA, and running Combined Ops with steam. ???

I'll check again. Mainly been playing domination with 7th cav.

Check here, they have graphs showing when servers get populated.

http://www.gametracker.com

Armacalypse starts to populate around 6pm PST.

http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/64.120.46.50:2402/

Edited August 2, 2010 by jblackrupert

[Rolexman 10]

I have http://www.youtube.com/user/BCACatToaster (See channel comments)

The existing AAS videos tell you absolutely nothing about what its' about

just a bunch of pictures of maps but no actual gameplay showing

what goes on.

I seriously doupt people who work on AAS is going to crying foul

if Bohemia mentions it in promotional videos and such.

It really seems to me that many people here are looking for any excuse

to keep Arma hidden in the closet even though it's seriously threatening it's very existence.

It would be "the right thing to do" to ask permission to put AAS in a video, and the AAS crew would certainly be honored. However, BIS does own the rights to the game, so I don't think there could be a lawsuit over this, if they chose not to.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Rolexman

[NoRailgunner 0]

Its not an excuse its simple understanding what is common sense and respecting other peoples work (incl. those who are not "nominated for pr stunts").

With other words - BIS could make a lot more trailers/teasers showing what A2+OA is all about. But they dont have the staff, time and money to burn.

If you are unhappy with AAS advertisement - show AAS crew/makers a video how it could be done better. Maybe the mission designers are not so familiar with public relations? Some people are good with coding and scripting, some are good in describing things. ;)

Btw we're now a bit OT lets get back and discuss BIS DLC. I've the feeling one or two moderators lurking...

[jblackrupert 14]

You have to spend money to make money

It is on topic because the reason Bohemia is going the DLC route is because sales of the game are currently too low to fuel continued work on the game or at the level of quality they would like.

I'm not against DLC. But dealing with the reasons for the low sales is important.

Neobq learned from their mistakes and decisions that effected sales of Rise of Flight.

- Internet login for Single player. Very unpopular. removed

- Selling all the good planes - They coughed up more planes

+ released a new version fully patched with more planes at a reduced rate.

- They recently updated and released the demo

Neoqb also promoted the heck out of Rise of Flight on Youtube and Gametrailers.

very high quality high definition videos.

They didn't rely on media copies handed out like Bohemia did which resulted in horrible videos being released created on crappy systems.

[NoRailgunner 0]

BIS dont see the advantage of burning money with pr stunts.

Average gamers arent that interested in simulations or similar games - thats too much todo and to learn.

Simfans arent looking for Hollywood/MTV styled or CGI trailers - they want ingame scenes and details.

Its probably a good idea to invest in more marketing staff and time to create "A2+OA inside" video series. Or something like "Mission making - beginners guide", "Mission making - advanced guide", "Mission making - expert guide", "Do's and dont's in addon and island creating" etc.

[rübe 127]

Oh please, this is the "DLC discussion" and not the "marketing for newbies" thread.

:lookaround:

Edited August 2, 2010 by ruebe

[LJF 0]

And that's exactly why gaming sucks so hard nowadays, for the most part. It hasn't simply become ease of use, it's become spoon-feeding and babysitting. Mainstream developers, at one point or another, seem to have had a revelation that their consumers are retarded and therefore need to be treated as such in their games. Whether or not that revelation was true at the time is irrelevant, but what is true is it has changed most "modern gamers" into minimum-brain-functioning retards incapable of the most basic of tasks beyond shooting their gun and killing their target.

Exactly :( Sad times ...

This series has actually taught me basic scripting which has helped me develop basic C++ skills, it's (indirectly) taught me video editing, it's taught me 4, 6 and 8 figure grid references, it's taught me leadership techniques and has given me a very simplistic idea of what it could be like to be a real soldier, a career I am considering after finishing my A-Levels. Getting that much out of a game, and more that I can't think of off the top of my head, nowadays is considered unbelievably and almost impossibly difficult by the "modern gamer", and in turn BIS' games are the only games I've seen so far that have the possibility of teaching me such things, which refers back to mainstream developers and their views of their customers.

Same here, though probably not to that level :D

The "modern gamer" is not only of minimum brain function, but it is also afraid to try anything outside of the big-name, huge-budget brands, such as Call of Duty or HALO. Most people who are "popular" in the MW2 scene at the moment only own Call of Duty games, and perhaps HALO 3. It's pretty ridiculous to see how these guys confine themselves to one series. I'm a fairly hardcore BIS fan, but I also play tons of other (PC) games.

And that's the big one, most people are incapable of trying anything different. I'm sure there's a ton of people who'd love to play A2 but just couldn't ever get past the unfamiliar territory. Gaming and most modern entertainment is pretty instant gratification, thus when people come to ArmA they hate it for being different and confusing and don't have the attention span to try.

[jblackrupert 14]

BIS dont see the advantage of burning money with pr stunts.

Average gamers arent that interested in simulations or similar games - thats too much todo and to learn.

Simfans arent looking for Hollywood/MTV styled or CGI trailers - they want ingame scenes and details.

Its probably a good idea to invest in more marketing staff and time to create "A2+OA inside" video series. Or something like "Mission making - beginners guide", "Mission making - advanced guide", "Mission making - expert guide", "Do's and dont's in addon and island creating" etc.

AAS can be learned under an hour.

Who said anything about Hollywood/MTV style ads?

---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------

Oh please, this is the "DLC discussion" and not the "marketing for newbies" thread.

:lookaround:

Bohemia is going to DLC route because sales of the game are not providing them with enough money to continue with development of the game

as the level they would like.

So yes they are related topics like it or not.

[royaltyinexile 175]

I know it's a little like throwing a hand grenade into a playground.. but..

http://pc.ign.com/articles/111/1110164p1.html

Adds a little colour to the Content:Value debate. Although I think 'debate' might be giving some of the arguements in this thread a little too much credence. ;)

Ultimately, it's comparing apples and oranges; yet it's a reminder that we're at least picking the right fruit out the basket in the first place.

[Rolexman 10]

I know it's a little like throwing a hand grenade into a playground.. but..

http://pc.ign.com/articles/111/1110164p1.html

Adds a little colour to the Content:Value debate. Although I think 'debate' might be giving some of the arguements in this thread a little too much credence. ;)

Ultimately, it's comparing apples and oranges; yet it's a reminder that we're at least picking the right fruit out the basket in the first place.

I love this response to DLC.

What a rip. It's funny to think about all the ocnversations we, as a gaming community, had when "DLC" was first announced. We all worried that the micro=transaction model would lead to massive abuse by game developers in not realeasing full games and charging for content that was tradionally just "part of the game". WHile there are many developers who are using DLC to extend the life of a fantastic product, many companies (I'm lookin square at you Activision) are vomiting out worthless trinkets in what one poster correctly called a shamelss "cash grab".

I think with ME2 we are seeing how far EA is willing to push the boundaries. If you actually spend your hard earned money to buy a pack of three weapons (for what ever the cost, in this case more than "free" is ridiculous) then you are helping to extend this shameless practice.

[royaltyinexile 175]

I love this response to DLC.

We all worried that the micro=transaction model would lead to massive abuse by game developers in not realeasing full games and charging for content that was tradionally just "part of the game". WHile there are many developers who are using DLC to extend the life of a fantastic product, many companies (I'm lookin square at you Activision) are vomiting out worthless trinkets in what one poster correctly called a shamelss "cash grab".

I think you are right to be both concerned and cynical about new business models; however, a changing model is not necessarily apocalyptic. Although ,let me say that I consider the DLC offerd by Mass Effect 2 or, recently, Just Cause, to be a little bitter tasting.

Having one complete 'product' is something that is reletively new in terms of 'comsumable' artefacts. If we look at the development of the novel - for example Dickens - his epic door-stop 'novels' were originally released as many small - sometimes 3-5 chapters - 'episodes' of content. Bleak House isn't necessarily meant to be 'read' like a modern novel; rather, it was a product of its time. The publishing format was newspaper/ journal distribution, not mass produced volumes of texts as we recognise today. Technology changes, and as it did, so did consumer expectations.

None if this so far justifies 'DLC', nor is that my defaut position. Rather, I'm trying to say that distribution and business models change, and monolythic aproaches to a business are sure to fail where dynamism and agility survive.

Charging for content that was tradionally just "part of the game"

I can tell you that BAF content is not ripped out of OA and given a new label. Although it does have a shiney new label. It has been developed as a separate stream for a number of good reasons; although, you are right to be wary and question that. Teaser trailers released earlier used early working models and were a product of a small group of separate developers passionate enthusiasm.

The computer games market is in a period of uncertainty, with traditional models being proven to be innapropropriate for risk averse publishers. There are also a lot of other changes, but they are irrelevant here. I would encourage the community to take a broader look at 'DLC', before applying the same cynicism (often righly) brought to bear upon other content, before lazily applying it to BIS content.

I think many will be surprised by some of the content offered by BAF, and in that light, should be wary but pragmatic about new business decisions.

BIS can't 'milk' the community, because it isn't a cow; it's a gristly old mountain goat that will kick you as soon as look at you. ;)

RiE

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

...

BIS can't 'milk' the community, because it isn't a cow; it's a gristly old mountain goat that will kick you as soon as look at you. ;)

HAHA !! :icon_eek:

[mrcash2009 0]

This is from the main DLC thread so it didnt go off topic and posted here in reply:

Got to disagree, I'm afraid. That's much too reasonable a point to make in regard to DLC.

I see (although I'm not surprised) that you totally side-stepped the valid and looming end-of-the-world-one-DLC-at-a-time debate too. How very convinient.

But since noone cares for a sarcastic bastard, he's a little nugget of on-topic action: http://www.arma2.com/arma-2-baf-takistan/shapurs-silent-suffering_en.html

RiE

You might notice that I never side stepped a thing, you need to maybe not side step reading my previous posts in that thread and also past post in this discussion thread, and only react to recent post without finding out, so dont be as "not surprised" too swiftly. I do care for sarcastic bastards :) Although be warey of flippant assholes, that's a different breed :D

Edited August 23, 2010 by mrcash2009

[royaltyinexile 175]

You entirely misunderstood the tone of my response. Next time i will use more emoticons.

RiE

[kylania 568]

You entirely misunderstood the tone of my response. Next time i will use more emoticons.

RiE

How dare you! :eek: Good day, sir! I say, Good day!

[mrcash2009 0]

You entirely misunderstood the tone of my response. Next time i will use more emoticons.

RiE

Yes as we are not clairvoyants without them :)

You mention "more" ... although any would have been a start mate. Mind you I posted a sarcastic/Ironic post in that thread previously and it was layered with smileys, and it still didn't come across, there's no escape.

Edited August 23, 2010 by mrcash2009

[royaltyinexile 175]

A small DLC isn't worth the effort.

Effort is a subjective thing, so if it's too much effort for you, that's a fair enough issue.

I would suggest, however, that others might find downloading data from home simpler than going to a retail outlet and hoping to find it on the shelf. I would be interested to know why downloading data from, say, Sprocket poses more of a troublesome effort than downloading, for example, a PR mod. .

Considered from BI's perspective, the costs associated with printing and distributing discs may not be 'worth the effort'. You don't just order any old number of discs for printing and then expect to find it on the shelf of a local supermarket; moreover, there are regional concerns and contracts to figure into any distribution plan.

As an independent developer, digital distribution is a business model that provides several distinct advantages, and nullifies some of the risks posed by traditional monolithic publishing practices.

RiE

[RavoC 10]

Effort is a subjective thing, so if it's too much effort for you, that's a fair enough issue.

I would suggest, however, that others might find downloading data from home simpler than going to a retail outlet and hoping to find it on the shelf. I would be interested to know why downloading data from, say, Sprocket poses more of a troublesome effort than downloading, for example, a PR mod. .

Considered from BI's perspective, the costs associated with printing and distributing discs may not be 'worth the effort'. You don't just order any old number of discs for printing and then expect to find it on the shelf of a local supermarket; moreover, there are regional concerns and contracts to figure into any distribution plan.

As an independent developer, digital distribution is a business model that provides several distinct advantages, and nullifies some of the risks posed by traditional monolithic publishing practices.

RiE

Yeah well I understand this and I was talking about Bohemia not making that effort cause it will take a lot of time to export it on DVD like Arrowhead or Arma 2, which only will be some units with some single player campaign that won't be exactly a complete new game experience.

It's in my effort because I'm kind of in an English clan, and buying from internet is way faster, I agree. It's just I hope that DLC's won't be pushed in to often.

I mean; is it only way to download it on steam and burning it yourself?

I only have retail versions of the games now cause I just like it to have a back up plan if something goes wrong. Seen lots of people lose their games because of online purchases. It's linked to an account, even a back-up of it will be useless once someone hacked your account on steam or so on. I guess only steam can activate the DLC because it's down-loadable content, and if someone fetches that it's just worthless.

As a developer I think it will help Bohemia in a positive way, now downloading add-ons can get a fast back up and ArmaHolic is the best database for such a thing. I think that this DLC can be back upped too, off course. It's just that, if I need to buy English units, and the next thing Bohemia releases is another DLC. I might wait for a full DVD DLC package or something. Downloading for me takes a lot of time, plus my parents and myself hate internet payment transfers.

I just hope Bohemia won't stay on a path with a lot of DLC's. It will make multiplayer not playable for some if not downloading and be fully reliable on down-loadable content. Add-ons are easy to configure, which takes some time to understand, but I think it will make things just even more hard for the community if DLC's get released like regular add-ons by the developer itself.

But don't get me wrong, if people not fully want to buy down-loadable content and play this online, they get left behind which is their own problem. But it only gets harder and harder to start playing this game with all the content and DLC('s) that might release in the future.

[Jelliz 10]

I mean; is it only way to download it on steam and burning it yourself?

SprocketIDEA will host it aswell.

I might wait for a full DVD DLC package or something.

If DLC sales is a success and BIS is in the mood for it, they could potentially release some DLC's on a DVD, like with those "Game of the year edition" thingys.

But of course, there would have to be a large enough demand for it. And looking at the poll in this thread, i personally would be all like "DLC 4evarz, gimme ur moneys over teh netz!!11!!1!!".

But Indie developers works in mysterious ways, you just never know..

[RavoC 10]

SprocketIDEA will host it aswell.

If DLC sales is a success and BIS is in the mood for it, they could potentially release some DLC's on a DVD, like with those "Game of the year edition" thingys.

But of course, there would have to be a large enough demand for it. And looking at the poll in this thread, i personally would be all like "DLC 4evarz, gimme ur moneys over teh netz!!11!!1!!".

But Indie developers works in mysterious ways, you just never know..

Yeah well, I think if someone new sees this game and we have 5 DLC's behind us. Then people won't know where to look. So it would be a must to transfer it to DVD. Off course i would love to pay Bohemia for their development of this game, but a lot of DLC's and so on will make multiplayer like a built your own game and see if it still works online kind of children package to built their own car or house.

It will in the end kill most of the community because people can't understand this anymore and it will die in an instance.:(

But if later on it will be sold on DVD it might have a better view on what you need of to be up to date with this game and it's patches.